Woodland Mist Academy
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Posts posted by Woodland Mist Academy
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Am I the only one disappointed with several gifted camps and class providers? At one camp my DD attended, several parents were upset when they realized the class level was not what they had expected. Some were alarmed at dropoff. Others were upset at pickup after seeing the work that had been done. "Gifted" opportunities may not always mean what you think they mean.
Obviously mileage varies....a lot.
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Changed my mind...I imagine my daughter's experience is not typical and therefore probably not helpful. :)
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Ah! I understand now!
We do the same thing. :) We have meals portioned out in individual serving size containers to be reheated through the week. So *food prep* is five minutes for lunch.
Gotcha! :cheers2:
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Well, really depends. Sometimes he is in the middle of a math problem, so he is eating over 30 minutes while reading his calculus book. Or sometimes we eat together while discussing english. Sometimes, he takes a break and eats while reading the AoPS board (the chat side). But I will say, he rarely eats while doing nothing. It is not in his nature. We eat together over dinner outside at the picnic table every sunny day, with our neighbor who is a librarian. So he does know the social side of eating. Hope that explains the complexity of the situation.
So does he take a *break* while eating? No. But does he gulp his food down in a mad dash to push forward? No.
OK, this sounds very different than what I gathered from your other post. I was envisioning....well him eating in 5 min and going back to work (since that's what you wrote.)
So a full meal in 5 min. That's what I gathered from reading:
DS is massively focused (it is actually his biggest asset), so some days he takes 15 minutes for lunch, but usually he just eats in 5 and keeps going.
Clearly that's not actually what happens. ;) Sometimes it's so hard to tease out reality from posts!
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DS is massively focused (it is actually his biggest asset), so some days he takes 15 minutes for lunch, but usually he just eats in 5 and keeps going.
Does this not give you pause? It might just be a matter of cultural or personal preference, but it did jump out at me. Interesting.
(ETA: I only mention it because the thread is about balance. Fast meals are often a sign of a life out of balance in my mind. It can also lead to health issues. It's one of the very things we strive to avoid. Guess it goes to show balance will look different to everyone. :) )
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The solution for us was to apply a college style learning habit at home to match the college style semester schedule. He does not do every subject every day. He uses google calendar to track deadlines and works on 2-3 most urgent courses at a time. Some assignments might take him 3 hrs. Some 1.5. But he was productive because he was already "in the zone/ in flow" when working. Of course there were daydreaming moments too but overall attitude was good so I tried to think of daydreaming as his internal self need to unwind. After 20 or so minutes of dreaming or fiddling around with youtube (music), he goes back to finishing up.
I am not saying this is right for everyone. I think it worked out this way because we did try the hourly schedule and while it helped set some habits up for him for a while it wasn't ideal for optimal creativity or long term learning style. And because he plans to graduate early I feel like this fewer subjects a day/longer hrs per subject schedule is preparing him much more effectively for college-level work.
Yes! This sounds so much like my dd! Right down to the fiddling with YouTube for music then going back to work without prompting.
Thanks for sharing!
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In addition, I think she thought that was the way high school was supposed to be. Teens were supposed to always be doing school work, always miserable and complaining. That message is strong sometimes... It's almost as though it became a self-fulfilling prophecy.
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In our case it had nothing to do with speed. It had a little to do with learning time management and a lot to do with a need for independence and control. In short, she wanted her life to be the result of her decisions. My job now is to stand by with the life preserver as she learns to navigate the rapids.
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So much truth and wisdom in this thread!
Derek (OP), it sounds like your family has a good plan in place. I hope it make a difference and that you'll keep us updated!
I wanted to share a bit about what we did because it is different than many ideas that have already been mentioned. We were experiencing a similar problem, but the limiting time solution wasn't the best answer for us. In fact, it backfired. It was a good reminder to look at the teen in front of me. I really, really wanted the tracking time plan to work - it just didn't. It made things worse, and relationships started to suffer.
In the end, what seems to be working for my dd is not giving her any time constraints at all. The exception being if she is up at 1:30am insisting she has to finish an assignment that's not due for a couple days. At that, we draw the line.
We also started doing the activities she would be doing if she weren't doing school work all the time. She would complain bitterly, but yet not buckle down so she could do what she wanted to do. Finally we had a conversation similar to this:
Me: You wish you had more time for XYZ? Fine. Let's go.
DD: But I have homework!
MM: Irrelevant. Get in the vehicle.
We had made a zillion time maps. We both knew there was time for the various aspects of her life IF SHE managed her time well. She didn't want me to manage it and she certainly wasn't, so everything was out of balance. When we just started going to the activities, suddenly she saw the light and started managing her time herself. When I had tried to show her, explain, lay down the law, entice, implore, bribe... nothing but cold stares and
yellinglively conversation...When we just went... things changed. Life.got.better.
I noticed the balance was still not ideal, so I booted some of the at home classes to summer. We'll go year round as always. Why change what worked?
Four or five classes during the school year. 2 or 3 intensive summer classes. Meaningful work and play all.year.long. Confining free time and recreation to summers was a recipe for burnout here. Teaching life balance starts right now. She has many, many years of school ahead of her. Healthy habits are critical. Avoiding burnout is a must.
She has meaningful work outside of academics that is non-negotiable. Meaningful play is non-negotiable as well. It's part of what makes her whole.
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Great thread idea. Thanks!
Here's our list:
1. Physical, mental, and emotional health
2. Healthy and supportive relationships
3. 4 credits in each of the 5 core subjects (math, English, foreign language, history, science)
4. Meaningful work and play outside of credit hour academics
5. Time to read, dream, and just be
6. Elective credits
Progress toward independence woven throughout.
Critical thinking/metacognition and contemplation of morals and ethics as ever present themes.
(The above list is an overview. Within each category I have more specific goals.)
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Thinkwell Physics might be useful in some way... either as a spine or as a supplement.
Edited to correct typo.
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Oh the changes! Keeping doors open is my biggest goal and concern. In the last three months dd has changed so much and grown up so much, I cannot even imagine where we will be in two years!
This is soooo tricky! Sometimes keeping one door open closes another. It's nearly impossible to keep them all open...
Decisions, decisions...
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If I were homeschooling, in the big picture, I might make two or three lists - subjects where I want to check the box, subjects where I want rigor but my student isn't going to like it, and subjects where I want to take advantage of all the flexibility that homeschooling offers for a rigorous, deep, interesting education, possibly with a special/different approach. There you have it, my two inexperienced, irrelevant cents :)
Excellent advice!
Once we started taking this approach, many issues suddenly disappeared.
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DD does want to take some DE classes. She has expressed interest in Latin, Italian, and Computer Science courses. Hopefully we can participate in our state's tuition-free DE program.
Our DE options aren't as enticing as some other states. I might be easily swayed if we lived elsewhere... ;)
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One concrete question I have: what is the advantage of an AP class over just doing a dual enrollment class? It seems to me, with AP, that you basically take a college-level class but whether or not you get credit comes down to a test score, unlike a DE class. Is that an accurate understanding?
The advantage for us is not needing to drive to campus. (An online DE class would be more of a possibility.) Our schedule is tight. Our commutes are long enough. We don't need to add more driving.
Beyond that, there is more flexibility and more grace. An oops with an AP class doesn't carry the long-term repercussions of an oops with a DE class. That DE grade will stay on the record forever.
AP feels more transitional for us. It's a good fit for right now.
My daughter takes AP classes when they are the best fit of the available options. She is not trying to accrue college credit. That is only a bonus. If she ends up not doing well on the AP exam, we'll still be glad she took the class. If she can't find a testing spot, she will take the SAT II, if there is one. Actually an AP class is also good prep for the SAT Subjects tests. She'll probably take those whether or not she takes the AP Exam.
If the AP Exam isn't an option she might possibly take the CLEP, if there is a reason.
At this point, I expect she will only have a handful of APs and a couple DE classes. Time will tell...
(Edited to add left out word.)
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???
So we are supposed to use the term "struggle" only if the fight is, in fact, futile?
Makes no sense to me, but whatever...
Context.
There is struggling and making it to the top.
There is struggling and drowning anyway.
Both are struggles, but the outcomes are very different. I wouldn't compare the two, but that's just me. YMMV.
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That depends on how hard they make you fight for that A.
The student who claws his way way to the top through sleep deprivation and low blood sugar by sheer force of will... you bet he is struggling in every sense of the word... including the overwhelming sensation of drowning that "barely keeping head above water" implies
The difference being that he doesn't.
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Which creates unique challenges and problems for which outsiders have very little empathy.
This was added after I quoted, so I want to reiterate that I am not saying superstars have no challenges or problems. All students deserve empathy.
Again, context.
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Again, what I am saying is to consider context. I am not saying superstars all have idealic lives. Context, context, context. That is my main point.
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Many such students simply cannot kick back, relax, and float. They do not choose to go above and beyond, they are compelled to do so... sometimes at the expense of their mental and physical health.
It is too easy to say "if they wanted, they could have it easy". It is part of their nature to be incapable of doing just that.
I get that. I have one of those students. I still think she has it easier than if things were different. So does she. Does she have it easy? No. Does she have it easier than many, many others? Yes. A thousand times yes.
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I will also add, that as an outsider, I see the process of applying to universities to be a very unfortunate cultural aspect of America that those of us in NZ don't share. So clearly, I cannot understand the kind of pressure kids feel with the rat race they are facing. Here the bar is set pretty low to get into university but once you are there the standards are high. You sink or swim on your own merits. A huge percentage fail and drop out in the first year.
Ruth in NZ
Ah ha! Common ground! I wrote my response before I read this post. We both used a swimming analogy. :cheers2:
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Of course you are right that not all people feel the same. Struggle takes different forms, but in my experience all kids struggle if they are appropriately challenged. To think that superstar students have it easy is just false.
I don't think anyone is saying that superstar students have it easy. I envision it as being on a continuum. I do think that overall superstar students have it easier. They often choose to go above and beyond. To be challenged. If they wanted to, they could kick back, relax, and float through school and much of life. They might not get as far if they did that, but they would get by. Compare that to the child that has to fight tooth and nail just to scrape by. These students may well face a lifetime of fighting tooth and nail just to survive. The idea of kicking back and floating would result in sinking and drowning - guaranteed.Not every parent of a superstar student feels the same way or has the same perspective. Not all superstar students perceive their lives as a challenge and a struggle comparable to those of truly struggling students.There is the struggle of appropriate challenge and there is the struggle of academic survival. It's a swim meet compared to swimming to save your life.Well, here is my question. Is the trouble with us as parents comparing our children? Or is it with the children comparing themselves? I think it is more the former. Sure, students compare grades, but their internal struggle is more bound up with that hard self-fight that most teens experience. If you give them appropriate level work, then the struggle is at an appropriate level, this is true for all children regardless of ability. But when parents come here and see what some kids are doing, they have self-doubt. I think it is so very easy to talk about successes without ever discussing the failures. So no, I don't think that the struggles of one kid would comfort another, but it might comfort the parents.
I can only speak for myself, but I have serious doubts about that. I can only say it would be of little comfort to me.
As always, YMMV.
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I think it is hard not to put your best foot forward to the world. I love to brag to a safe audience. But I also think it is easy to lose track that gifted kids who are doing appropriately challenging work feel *challenged.* Is it the same feeling that average kids feel? From my experience, the answer is yes. My older boy just scored a ZERO out of 60 on his most recent math exam. It might be an invite-only exam, but he still got a 0. It is humbling and discouraging. In contrast, my younger boy is struggling to write faster than 10 words a minute at age 12. He is also struggling. The struggle is the same. Same effort, frustration, and emotion. I just wonder if people with superstar students don't talk about their kids' struggles here, so others don't see the whole picture.
Ruth in NZ
My experience has been different. I have no idea what others feel. All average kids don't feel the same. All gifted kids don't feel the same. All struggling kids don't feel the same. I can only imagine what I would feel like in another person's situation, with the given genetics and life experiences. I can try to gauge feelings by words and reactions, but I can't actually know enough to compare feelings. Besides - what purpose would that serve? Does the struggle need to be the same for both to be valid?
What I imagine is this:
Attending an elite invite-only exam at 14 years old and getting a 0 probably feels different than getting a single digit on the ACT as a junior or senior in high school, especially when that student is trying hard to get to college.
It probably also feels different if the former comes from a family with resources and connections and the latter... well, let's just say the latter doesn't...
Take two different students and put them in the above situations. Then, yet another two students. Again, feelings and reactions will vary. Different students in the same situations won't always react the same.
How each will feel is anyone's guess. Students in either situation could bounce back, regroup, study with a renewed determination, and succeed the second go 'round. Perhaps they both might. On the other hand, either or both could give up on life entirely.
There are differences, however. One student has an extensive safety net of support. That same student also has a past of exuberant successes and triumphs. The other student doesn't. In the dark moments that safety net and those past glories may not matter, but in the days after they might make a big difference.
Which student is guaranteed a life of happiness and success? Neither. Statistically, one sure does seem to have better odds...
A superstar student is by definition one that is overall succeeding at glorious heights, correct? This is not high IQ, low functioning. Or average IQ, average achievements. Or struggling with the basics. Perhaps I've misunderstood, but in my mind a bump in the road or an obstacle in the path of success is quite different than trudging through a vast jungle blindfolded and alone on a path possibly leading right back to the dark starting line.
Thus my point up-thread about thinking who the thread is about. What is the context? The feelings of students in all situations are valid. They don't need to be equal to be valid. It is, however, important to remember that the struggle of one won't necessarily comfort the other.
As always, YMMV.
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Duke TIP, JHU CTY, NUMATS, etc. Reviews
in Accelerated Learner Board
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