Peela
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Posts posted by Peela
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One written narration per week. At that age, ds could only manage a few sentences- as short as he could make them. Now at 12 he's up to half a page . If its really tough on him you could write it down for him for a while, then have him write it out himself. Also, I would keep up the oral narrations at the same time because it helps with the written ones. You may literally have to walk him through every sentence in the beginning. It can be painstaking. But eventually, he will get it and be able to work more independently, I promise.
For my reluctant writer, at age 9, he had one writing assignment per day, plus some handwriting (about 1 line). He did spelling orally. He did grammar orally, mostly. He did dictation on a separate day to copywork.
I am surprised others are saying more than one written narration a week for history. I would say 1 is more than enough and quite a lot for some kids, especially boys. It seemed like an enormous task to my son.
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So here is what I have done and still do:
I read the topic with them (read aloud- still do that with them now, it's one of our favourite parts of the week). We discuss, and they do outlining after that, often. But for the history assignment, on another day, I choose a topic, or give them a choice.
For example, we were reading about Buddhism in our history book. So I asked the kids to find out what the eightfold path was, and the 4 noble truths. That was an assignment. Not a long one.
Another day (we did Buddhism over two weeks) my daughter wrote the story of Buddha's life, as a creative story.
Another thing we are doing is reading Greek myths. The kids rewrite the myth in their own words.
We learned about Egpyt,and the kids had to pick one topic to write a report on- Pyramids, mummies, religion etc.
My daughter has written a compare and contrast essay on the ancient river civilizations- she is 13 though and writes easily and well. Still, it took some planning.
Most of the time, for a history assignment, it will simply be an extension of what we have been reading about, and involve some extra research (usually done online). For my writing reluctant 12yo, a half a page, plus an illustration, is about it. My 13yo can do 1-2 pages easily.
Other history assignments could be: give an oral report, make a mind map, watch a movie and write about it, make a power point presentation (easy once you have done it once), or make up a story of a day in the life of someone at that time.
Mostly though, I just pick a topic, or give them a choice of a couple, and they do a bit of research and come up with an assignment. If I have to help my son, I just do, but mostly he can do it on his own now.
Its not difficult to assign. It may be a challenge for the child....you can always start them off with a one paragraph assignment, and expand from there over the year.
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I will be alternating grammar and vocab for my dd13/14. For the reason you are concerned about...too many subjects. However I am using Analytical Grammar. She will do part 2 of this soon, and even though she hasnt done any for several months, this child will pick it up again fairly easily. And she will stop vocab study while she dives into grammar.
It's not ideal, but I prefer it this way with this child. her maths lessons are taking much longer this year and I don't want to bog her down too much.
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Another point I someone else brought up but that I would like to emphasise is that when I homeschooled another child, it did make me realise how much of homeschooling is organic now to our lifestlye, and not limited to school hours. Even though we have a very structured homeschool day, our evening read alouds and sometimes weekend and social activities were often related to our homeschooling topics.In fact I resented that I couldnt have our evening read aloud a "school" book as I had done in the past.
The boy also didnt make friends with other homeschoolers easily, and his mother was not interested in going out of her way to foster friendships...I put a lot of work into nourishing friendships between my kids and other homeschoolers, and that often involves weekend visits, sleepovers, that sort of thing, which this boy I was homeschooling could not be part of very often, as our deal was pretty much limited to school hours. So in that respect it wasn't so easy for him and it never felt 100% comfortable. Also, people who wanted to be friends with my kids didn't always want to be friends with him, as he was very reserved and my kids are extroverts. So it got a bit difficult when my kids were invited somewhere...people wondered if they felt obligated to invite our guest as well.
Just tricky.
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I require approximately an hour of "school reading" per day, and I assign books related to our history year- historical fiction, and now some real classics as well. I scour many different booklists- Ambleside, Sonlights, TWTM, as well as these boards at times. Both fiction and non fiction, but most would fall into the catagory of "living books". I use this time to have them read things they wouldn't read voluntarily.
On top of that hour of "school reading" I casually suggest and leave strewn around good literature for their evening reading. I try hard to make these books ones they will really enjoy and not feel they are doing 'school". Then they will usually read for an hour in the evening as well, and at other times when they might be bored.
However, my kids are 12 and 13. Knowing the age of your kids would help people respond to you more specifically.
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I did it for over a year, with a 12yo boy.
We ended up stopping after a strong clash with the mother over expectations. She basically considered me a school and opted out of all responsibility. However when I asked her son to finish the last 25 pages of Treasure Island during the holidays, and checked a couple of times to see if he was, she told me I was being too harsh on him, because he just didn't want to. He was a reluctant reader and he was playing his mother against me. So, I dropped him like a hot cake, for which she later was truly sorry, but it was too late by then.
I did find it a lot of extra work, which I didn't expect since he was the same age as my daughter. And I didn't find him very open, although he was outwardly compliant, he would undermine me to my kids when I wasn't in the room. He has since gone on to be fairly delinquent, and we have banned him from seeing our kids.
So, it did work ok for quite a while and it certainly would have been to his advantage to stay, however, taking on another family's issues, including their parenting style and values, by having their child in your home, can bring up more issues than you would think.
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Mmm, I start with a spa with my husband (outside spa) while the kids do their many chores.
Then they start with maths while I get dressed and have breakfast.
I like to start with maths, it is our longest subject and the one I insist on every single day, Latin coming straight after, although that is only 3 days a week at the moment.
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:001_smile:Sounds like you have answered your own question then....level 2.
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Why don't you just use SOTW and beef it up with reading? I haven't seen HO, though I have considered it, and i understand your dilemma about him being in between levels. We started SOTW around that age and finished 4 years later, last year, with SOTW4. It has been absolutely wonderful, and really not a lot of work on my part.
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I prioritise sleep and an afternoon nap, and I prioritise taking care of myself. I am the central pin , and if I dont take care of me , since no one else does, then everything falls apart. I feel that that also models to my kids a healthy attitute to taking care of themselves.
And I use the Flylady system (in a haphazzard way) which helps me to prioritise everything else in my life. That was what used to bog me down....not knowing how to prioritise....and Flylady does that for you. It changed my life. i was spending too much time on the unimportant things and not enough on the more important ones. A system helps me get it all into perspective, including taking care of myself.
flylady.com
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I have a bit of a similar issue with my son...he gets no screen time here during the week unless we are watching a series together on DVD (currently Darling Buds of May!), but then he goes to play with his friends and sometimes I don't see him for hours. We had a big issue come up here because I had banned a certain online game, due to the addictive behaviour it was triggering in our son, and he accepted that, but his friends ended up getting onto it, and he ended up getting an account over at his friends' houses, and then the boys were all bribing each other with using my son's account when he wasn't there and we had big emotional upheavals. It turned into such a big trip that the parents noticed something wierd was going on, realised Jared had been banned from this game for a valid reason after all, and banned it too. So, that solved that. Meanwhile it was several months of way too much screen time, uncontrolled, and addictive games, at other people's houses.
See, I don't like to put my child is a position where it is easy for him to lie. I don't visit his friends' houses very often, so I had no way of monitoring how much time he was spending there on TV or computer games, so I didn't want to put a rule that he coulnd't do that because I had no way of knowing if he was or not, making it too easy for him to lie to me. I didnt want to ban him from his friends, because as a homeschooled kid, I didnt want to ban him from his friends! Theyre not bad kids and I have a polite relationship with the parents, where we sometimes share any problems that come up.
I just talked to him about it, and said I would like to see him out on the street playing more often, rather than inside their houses. He said he preferred that anyway, and it did help because the boys are all younger than him and adore him.
But in the end, I only can control what goes on in my house, and our limits are sometimes family viewing during the week....but the kids have an hour on Fridays and 2 hours on Saturdays and Sundays for their computer games. If they get extra at other people's houses, so be it- its irregular, anyway. My dd has gone to have a sleepover at friends' houses and come home saying they watched 4 movies. That's just not something I would do or allow, but it didn't kill her and I wouldn't stop her going there over that, because it's not often.
I dont think there is any easy solution when kids are friends. There is a family (a family we are close to for other reasons) that my son has a good friend in, but we don't let him visit that family's house because the older son, who I have homeschooled in the past, is delinquent and a bad liar and a bad influence and we have a deal that Jared is not to spend ANY time with this older child, but he can play with the younger child. The mother accepts it, knowing her older son is a bad influence, and so we only have that younger child over to our place.
You do what you have to do, work out what battles are worth fighting, and what ones are worth letting go of. Friends can be an important issue for homeschoolers, and I am wiling to compromise my own standards on screen time to some extent to facilitate my children's friendships.
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I keep them until we have our yearly moderator visit. Sometimes it s awhile before I get around to chucking them out, but last holidays I did a massive clean out and it felt so good! I had garbage bags worth of stuff....things I had photocopied or printed off the computer, old workbooks...I couldnt believe how much I had collected in 5 years of hoemschooling...
I have only kept a few sentimental things, and I will keep our history notebooks, and some of the kids' best writing assignments.
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It's pretty normal as others have said.
I find it gets worse if I have been slack about disciplining, about school, about chores, at some point recently. It's like they see a weakness and they go for the kill! As a parent, I find it gets easier if I am consistent..after a bit, they give up (and find another weakness).
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I used to push a lot and I dont think it really helped us move forward much, and it caused a lot of stress. You cant make a flower open quicker by forcing open the petals- some things just take time.
I guess I try to extend my daughter in her artistic/ writing skills, which she excels at, by trying to encourage it and make space for it in the day. She is a bit of an all rounder though, so although she is better at some subjects than others, and prefers some to others, overall she keeps up in all of them and I guess I do need to insist she finish her work some days, when she gets behind, but I don't feel i push her much.
My other little cherub finds a lot of things a struggle, although he loves to read and reads very well. So I guess I just keep nudging him along in his weak areas, daily effort and all that, but after years of pushing I have come to some acceptance that you just can't force a child with LDs to learn beyond their capacity. However, I guess I make sure he reads a fair bit because it is his strong area, and therefore it is an area that builds his personal confidence, which is important.
Its a balance, and a juggling act, but I dont push the weak areas too much because it my son's case, it really doesn't help. Short lessons really do work better for him, and daily consistency, and lots of physical activity, rather than "pushing". Balance.
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One loves it, the other doesn't like it but will tolerate it.
Both strongly dislike potatoes.
How can one actually dislike such a major food?
So, the only major carb they both eat is pasta. And I think pasta is junk food.
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John Taylor Gatto has a lot to say about this subject (at least he did when I heard him speak, and read his books, about 5 years ago). He pointed to the extended childhood of our young people, which is brought about by over programming, over scheduling, making all decisions for them, spoon feeding them every tidbit of information they receive. By the time they reach teen age, they are programmed to just wait for someone to tell them what to learn next, what to do next.
I do think thats a good point. I really love the Teenage Liberation Handbook, which encourages teenagers to take their life into their own hands and make intelligent decisions about their lives. It empowers them.
I do have quite a strong opinion about training children for the Rat Race- training them to accept authority and depend on it, and slowly go through the expected hoops of life.. But I think I still prefer to provide a supportive environment those teen years to encourage them to find their feet and their wings...rather than expecting too much, too soon. We live in different times.
We have a wierd society that promotes soft porn in young children in their clothing, yet condemns too much independence. Twisted.
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I have often been surprised on these boards in the past at the protectiveness of U.S. parents....I myself leave my children alone regularly and have done for years. Dh and I feel we are quite protective in some ways, but not so much in others. We feel it safe to leave our kids alone, but we are very picky about their friends.
The violent crime rate in the U.S.is very high compared to many other countries. I guess with that in the media, there is bound to be a fear in the culture and a sense of needing to protect. Here, I wouldn't think twice about letting my kids play out in the front yard and my 12 yo rides 3 kms now to the local skate park, and dd13 rides to art lessons and back.
But I am not necessarily representative of Australians. I also feel we have become an overprotective culture. But it is difficult to know how to deal with the violence in the culture. Do you let your child walk to school or do you drive them? Ideally, you walk with them but people dont. I used to leave home at 6.45 and catch a bus, a train, and walk a couple of miles, to get to my private school- and got home at 4.30 pm. My kids have only ever been on a bus or train a couple of times each, and never alone. It made me very strong and independent, even though I wouldn't want them to have to do it...it was a looooong day.
It probably comes from not wanting our children to suffer. Maybe past generations saw the value in suffering and didnt try so hard to avoid it for themselves or their children. It builds character. But when abductions and assaults are happening all around, sure, you keep your kids inside. No easy answer.
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I have read studies that a young person's actual brain doesn't mature properly until their early twenties. How much of that is nature or nurture, I don't know...the study I am thinking of in particular definitely considered it nature. And it seems to correlate with what I see around me.
Our society is not so much geared to "mere survival" as past generations. I think that gives us the luxury of adolescence.
It's all very well idealising, but would you send your own 14 year out to work in the mines? Quit his education? Or allow your 15yo daughter to stop her education to get married and have children? Most of us wouldn't, because we feel that more education will give them more opportunities in life. We don't want to stop their education so that they can subsist at a basic survival level. Ask any person in a third world country. Education is something to be grateful for- millions don't get one, and are stuck in poverty, unable to get out.
However, I would agree that we tend to overprotect and molycoddle our children, as well as teens. We should be keeping our little ones much closer, rather than plinking them in daycare, and allowing our older kids more freedom as they reach for it. I love Scouts for that...dd13 is about to go away for 9 days, thousands of kms away, to do a cultural exchange program with aborigines living a fairly traditional lifestyle- apart from the drug addiction and alcoholism.
Like many ideas it has some merits and one could get something from it, but I am not convinced I would swallow the whole idea.
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Yes we did that the year before last, over 6 months...my kids were 11 and 12 I think, maybe younger. I had another child homeschooling with us at the time, a boy 12, and the Iliad really appealed to him (all the blood and gore of course). I only attempted to try the original because of LCC and we did have a great time. Let me see if I can remember what we did.
I had Fagle's version. It is very readable, and I read a lot aloud. I found a website which suggested which chapters were the essential ones to read. For example, there is a chapter near the beginning which tells all the different armies and ships which came, and although we read some of it just to get the idea, we did skip the rest of it...no action, just list after list! I also got an abridged audio version, and I also used the Teaching Company's audio lectures....however by no means all of them. However, I found my kids did absorb a fair bit from the ones we listened to and it really added some depth to our understanding.
I did a fair bit of "oral narrations". We would read/ listen to parts,(I had them read aloud too) then I would have one of them tell it back to me in their own words. We discussed a lot.
I am trying to remember the creative things we did. They all did artwork at times as they listened. The boys drew battles scenes. Dd probably drew Helen, I can't remember. I remember they did one assignment where I asked them to tell a scene from the perspective of one of the people. Both the boys did a battle scene from Achilles perspective, and dd did a beautiful one from Andromache's.
We watched the Brad Mitt movie (not the first time), and discussed the differences between the movie and the book.
I am pretty sure we drew a map of the Mediterranean at the time, so that gave them something to do while they listened.
I am sure there are some other things we did. I was surprised that my kids could actually get engaged with it, but they really did. Our lessons never went for more than half an hour, and we probably got to it 3-4 times a week. I didn't expect them to read it on their own at that age.
I think we did another little study on what a hero is, and what are the qualities of a hero, and compared Achilles and Hector to a modern hero of their choice. I got that idea from another website.
I also didn't mind if they did other things while we listened, or I read, like lego or doodling.
I hadn't done anything like that before and I would encourage you that it is actually possible, and you may find yourself getting even more out of it that your kids. I scoured the internet for creative ideas from websites on the Iliad...teaching tools...I only needed a few. Although my kids wouldn't remember the details, they have a good strong familiarity with the story of the Iliad, so it hasn't all just drained out of their brains!
I went on to do Literary Lessons from Lord of the Rings, another of Drew's suggestions, last year, and that was also a great hit and a wonderful thread through our entire year.
hth
peela
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I like this one better, because I am not so distracted by every post...I seem to be able to discriminate better which ones to read....havent worked out quite why yet.
Oh yeah, and like Pam, love the edit function here. It was a bit of a bummer not being able to do that on the other board.
Peela
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How much of these books would you say are made up of picture studies? I have never incorporated that into our school work and I would love to do that. Also, maybe these would work better accelerated a few years.
The pictures do look beautiful and I would buy them for the picture study aspect if there were many of them?
Thanks for the information,
Kimberly
No, there are not a lot of picture studies in the older books i have- Secondary and Highschool. Both have 6 picture studies. Both of which cover two days of work, I think. One day of answering questions about the picture. One day of creative writing related to the picture. the pictures are beautiful, and the kids have enjoyed them.
Yes, I think the books might be good accelerated....my ds12 is using the age appropriate one, but my dd13 is using the highschool one, and probably could have a year or two ago.
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oh yeah, I know all about that one. Also, don't do it as a break while housecleaning, before cooking dinner, or before reading to the kids at night time.
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I can't get it down to fewer than 4, if she might not be getting back to this period:
1) Antigone - Sophocles [Oedipus Rex gets more coverage, but I believe this is a much better work for high school - and especially for middle school - I think the core issues resonate more strongly with a teen than those in Oedipus... ymmv :) If you have the time, it is so neat to follow up by reading Anouilh's Antigone and looking at how the same story is used to to express really different things... even if you don't do this, I think Antigone is unmissable (though it makes more sense if you do a quick synopsis of Oedipus... ]
2) Aeniad - Virgil The best work of Roman literature, imnsho, and since you are doing the Iliad and the Odyssey, this is a really logical follow-up.
3) At least one of Plato's dialogues ....
4) Some excerpts from Plutarch's Lives - you might want to look at the Ambleside site, for inspiration about Plutarch, as I recall, it is a regular part of their program.
If there is any way to do it, I would also strong suggest at little bit of Aristotle. He was such a significant influence on European thought, and you really can't get the flavor of it by reading about him... I would even consider cutting into next year's Medieval lit to squeeze in some Aristotle.
ETA: perhaps you could also spend a day or so just reading some poems? Sappho, Simonides, Pindar, Catullus, Ovid and Horace are the big names which come to mind... I love poetry so much that I like to have us read some as part of every literature grouping!
Oh gosh, thankyou Eliana! Now I am quite overwhelmed but I have written it all down. I have decided on Plutarch (just a few), one of Sophocles (might depend on what i find at the 2nd hand bookshop, but your comments are noted!), Plato's Republic...and that may be all I can realistically fit in.
The Aeniad.....we have read childrens' versions of this....I am just not sure if i will get to fit it in this time. I have a feeling though that our Latin program (Cambridge) covers it, I will check that.
I am taking note of the poetry...I will have a look at it and see if it resonates. Thanks for suggesting it, I hadnt thought of that and wouldnt have known where to start.
Thanks everyone else too...glad there was SOME consensus....makes it easier to choose.
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So, now I have another question for you (and I feel ridiculous asking).
What is the difference between a narrative, and text books? Are text books easier for her to outline because they are shorter? Or some other reason? (still trying to organize my outlining thoughts! :))
G'day. :)
Sorry, that probably wasn't very clear.
In her Science text book, there are headings and subheadings, and lots of visual information..different coloured and sized fonts. Things are broken up nicely, making it easier to outline, because in a way, some of the work has been done for you already.
When you read a book like SOTW, you have to create those headings and subheadings- the different layers of the outline- for yourself. The text does not discriminate visually...it's all plain text. Does that make it clearer?
*If you are stressed, and not having fun, you're doing it wrong*
in General Education Discussion Board
Posted
I think I am pretty relaxed nowadays, and I do have fun. In fact, I really , really enjoy homeschooling.
However, in the past I have certainly stressed trying to do it right, by other people's standards...not that they cared or even had a clue I exist!
I have stopped to re-evaluate what sort of a childhood I want my kids to have, and whether pushing them so hard is worth it. It isn't, for me, because I don't want them to remember me pushing and yelling, stressing. I would rather they remember me happy. And I would rather be happy and enjoy this journey together.
I think the answer is to stop giving up your authority up to other people and take it back for yourself. Trust yourself. You wont fail them by taking time for the fun things. You won't fail them by relaxing. Breathe.
I have been doing this for long enough now (5 years) to realise there are a lot of authorities out there, and they often differ in their opinions, so what is important to me? You have to become an authority for your own family, and just know you are doing whats right for them. Then no matter how many hours a day you homeschool, you can relax knowing it is right for you, and let go of external authorities.
There are no WTM police, no LCC police, no Classical Homeschooling Police, no CM police, no one judging you whose opinion matters at all! There is actually no getting it right. Get what right? What is "it"? Just do what you do and stop worrying about what you can't do. You can't do it all.
If what that bloke said (and his opinion doesn't matter either) touched something in you, maybe its time to look at your priorities outside of academics, and find a better way to balance them with academics. We do Latin, maths, we write lots, we love the 4 year history cycle, we read heaps, do grammar, Shakespeare and lots of other stuff, but we don't work all day. We have lots of time for play and fun. In fact right now I am waiting for them to get home from surfing. It has cut into our morning a bit, but it's not every week, so I let them go.
This is their childhood, now. It is not merely a preparation for their future as adults, this is their life, today, and it's our lives today as well. I like to remember, what if I was to die tomorrow? What would I want to do today?