I'm looking at these options for a WTM/classical science program. What are the differences between some of these programs? Are there any others that I should consider too? I'm looking at separate programs for both grammar and logic stages. Which is your favorite?

Thanks for your help! Chris, I guess my first thought was why try to reinvent the wheel. Personally, I have a love-hate relationship with detailed plans made by someone else! I tend to tweak them some (or a lot) as I use them with my kids. However, I'm thinking about a group of families, so I think it's better to have more of a plan for what books will be needed. I think after this year together, we all have a better idea of how quickly our kids read books. Still, I wanted to ask if there might already be a good go-along literature plan available before we dig in and make our own. I'm glad you like the activity books. Do you think 5th and 6th graders are too old for the SOTW volume 1 activity book? I haven't seen it in awhile, but I'm remembering a lot of coloring pages.

I'm wondering if there is an option out there that uses either SOTW or MOH as a spine and then schedules go-along literature with page numbers and some other activities, preferably for multiple grade levels. I know that some programs include a schedule of SOTW or MOH as optional with that program's own history schedule (BP, TOG...). Also, MOH and the SOTW activity guide include book suggestions by chapter, but no schedule. Is there such a thing as a program that focuses on and reads through SOTW or MOH in order over 4 years AND schedules go-along literature (readers and read-alouds) with page numbers like SL? I'm looking at Ancient history for kids 1st - 6th or 7th.

I'd love to hear your opinion on these books with a 4th and 5th grader in mind. Are they good? Which are your favorites? Are there any that you'd drop if time seems short? Also, which of these should not be read with younger children in the room? Read alouds: A Letter fo Mrs. Roosevelt Across Five Aprils Walk to the World's Rim Caddie Woodlawn In Search of the Source The Witch of Blackbird Pond Little Britches Miracles on Maple Hill Moccasin Trail Johnny Tremain Carry On, Mr. Bowditch Roll of Thunder, Hear My Cry Readers: By the Great Horn Spoon Freedom Train: The Story of Harriet Tubman Helen Keller Hero Over Here In the Year of the Boar and Jackie Robinson Old Yeller Om-Kas-Toe: Blackfeet Twin Captures an Elkdog Pedro's Journal Phoebe the Spy Pocahontas and the Strangers Sarah, Plain and Tall Shades of Grey The Cabin Faced West The Great Turkey Walk The Great Wheel The Lewis & Clark Expedition The Matchlock Gun The Seventeeth Swap The Story of Thomas Alva Edison The Wright Brothers: Pioneers of Amerian Aviation Thimble Summer Toliver's Secret Turn Homeward, Hannalee What's the Big Idea, Ben Franklin? I'd appreciate your help!

Thanks for all the input! I appreciate your help! RootAnn, thanks for the tip on the changing the seconds! This is for my dd-9.

I've been using flash cards with her and had her write out some tables, but I'm hoping you guys will have some magical ideas for helping her to increase her speed! Do you? :)

What do you like for a year of American History for a group of 1st - 3rd graders? I've been looking at MFW's Adventures in American History and BF's Early American History. I also briefly looked at WinterPromise. My concerns about MFW are that it could be dry, and I don't see a sample for their history text Story of the U.S. Can anyone give me a review of that? I like that it includes a study of the states, but is that an interesting study with them? Is this enough for 3rd graders? My concerns about BF is the point-of-view. Should we skip the guide and just read the books? Is this enough for 3rd graders? Is there another good option? We'd like to do a year of American history before diving into Ancients the following year.

Thanks! You wouldn't even pull in the 3rd graders?

1st -3rd. We have a group of families with various ages ready for modern, and we're not sure what to do with our younger group.

What do you do with your younger kids when you reach SOTW 4 in your cycle?

I agree that CC and TOG are very different! For CC, the focus for grammar school really is on memorization. For TOG, the focus is more on books -- lots of great books for history and literature. TOG is much richer! There are also go-along timelines (some dates are recommended for memory), vocabulary words, maps and geography, worksheets to go with the literature books, suggested hands-on activities, etc. For dialectic, there are discussion questions to complete from the history reading and socratic discussions once a week, which I assume would happen with the co-op. I'd choose TOG!!

Thanks for the ideas so far, guys!

You might also check Half a Hundred Acres' free reading plans! SOTW is scheduled by CC week. http://www.halfahundredacrewood.com/2014/04/classical-conversations-cycle-3-reading-plans.html (I'm also considering starting here and adding in more SOTW along the way to stretch the 24 history sentences into 36 school weeks.)

My dd enjoys & easily memorizes the CC history sentences, but I want context and go-along reading. We won't be in a CC community, so we can space these 24 cycle 3 history songs across the school year and spend more time on important events. Has anyone created such a plan? I've seen Half a Hundred Acres' wonderful plan for scheduling go-along reading for the CC 24 weeks, but I want to spend more time on explorers, pilgrims, civil war, etc. I'm also not sure what skipping around so much in SOTW volumes 3 & 4 will do to the story line. Another thought is to try to combine the Half a Hundred schedule (with CC history sentences) with ideas from Sonlight's core D+E to expand on events & stretch it over the school year. ??? I'd love to hear your thoughts & suggestions!

Thanks for your thoughts! I've never used Shurley, but it seems like it could work well to do just as you say. I don't like to mix programs for the same reason -- differences in definitions and labeling methods and abbreviations. The school has already decided to use Latin for Children, which, I've read, uses Shurley labeling and definitions.

In CC, so much depends on the tutor!

Which program did you use that you felt was superior?

I appreciate all your help! I do like Rod & Staff, and if I homeschool next year, that's the route I'd likely take -- unless a group of friends gets together for a little co-op and we figure out something for my former Essentials teacher friend to use legally with us! However, I am mostly asking for a new university model school that I'm helping to advise. Some of the families are former CC Essentials users and would like to use a similar program. CC is adamant that the school can't use their program, and a school wouldn't be able to use an Essentials guide from eBay. Does it seem like the best substitute would be to use Shurley and have the teacher take it a step further and teach the kids to diagram the Shurley sentences (using the Rod & Staff English Handbook as needed)? I haven't seen Our Mother Tongue, but I'll look into it! Or, would it be better to use something like OMT or R&S and add the Shurley jingles??

Writing is being considered separately, and I'm trying to learn about IEW now. (Any comments comparing IEW to other classical programs like Classical Writing, Writing Tales, or the new Writing & Rhetoric by CAP are welcome!! My thread with that question isn't getting responses. :) ) I've heard that the grammar in Essentials is like a combination of Shurley and Rod & Staff. Can anyone comment on that and what we'd need from each? I've used R & S, but I've only read about Shurley. Does Shurley include diagramming? Thanks for your help!

Can anyone give feedback on this? I've used Classical Writing Aesop and Homer in the past, as well as Writing Tales I & II. Writing & Rhetoric seems similar to those (?). I've never used IEW and wonder how it's different.

If we're not in a CC group, some of the pieces are available from CC, but not all, right? How can I put together a grammar program that is very similar?

I haven't used either, but we're looking at both. I would appreciate your help!

I've used Rod & Staff in the past and really liked it, but we're currently using The Logic of English for spelling, which has a grammar component, for my 3rd grader. I hate to double up on grammar -- ain't nobody got time, right? LOE is kind of expensive not to use all the parts, but we do LOVE it for spelling!! Is there a supplement we could add for sentence diagramming?

Dd currently takes art, writing, and PE at co-op (for a lot less $$). :) For me, the draw is that I will also have a senior who will continue to be homeschooled (using online classes and dual credit), and I'm nervous about doing 4th grade well while also learning everything needed for college scholarships, admissions, etc., on top of everything else (cooking, bills, a high schooler who recently started a full-time classical school, etc.) I've homeschooled 4th grade well twice before, but there wasn't so much else going on. ??

Sorry! I think with this one, you sign that you acknowledge that instruction will come from their SOF, but you don't have to sign it for yourself.