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Heather R

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Posts posted by Heather R

  1. I know this is a common question, and so thanks in advance for the help.  We finally got the results of Faith's (age 10.1 at the time of the test) pysch-ed assessments back in October/November.  In general, it just confirmed what I already suspected.  But I'm wondering if there are some nuances in the results that might be helpful.

     

    GAI - 136 - 99%ile - Very Superior

    Verbal Comprehension - 118 - 88%ile - High Average

    Perceptual Reasoning - 140 - 99.6%ile - Very Superior

    Working Memory - 108 - 70%ile - Average

    Processing Speed - 103 - 58%ile - Average

     

    Subtests

    Similarities -15

    Vocabulary - 15

    Comprehension - 9

     

    Block Design - 16

    Picture Concepts - 17

    Matrix Reasoning - 16

     

    Digit Span - 10

    Letter-Number Sequencing - 13

    Digits Forwards - 8

    Digits Backwards - 12 

     

    Coding - 10

     

    Symbol Search - 11

     

     

    They also administered the WIAT-III and the total was in the 95%ile.  I have the breakdown if that would be useful... Math fluency was notably lower, at 58%ile, as well as Essay Composition (23%ile).  The tester did note that it was the time limits that impacted the essay, and that when allowed extra time, Faith produced an essay that was more in line with her actual abilities.

     

    As well, they administered the Delis-Kaplan Executive Function System assessment to assess her "higher-level problem solving" (direct quote).  I have all the subscores (well, percentiles) for this as well.  The only marked areas of weakness were "Visual Scanning" under Trail Making (9th %ile) which was highlighted in the report because Faith spent time looking over her responses (catching one error, but slowing her down). 

     

    They also described her as "rallying under load", which I believe means her performance kind of was dependent on the difficulty of the task (ie, she performed better on harder tasks).

     

    As well, the tester noted high levels of anxiety that impacted her performance.  She has been in therapy for a year and we have seen improvements, but not entirely, and perhaps we need to consider medication...

     

    Anyway, I'm still left wondering what exactly I should *do* with this child.  She struggles with completing task that are either "too hard" or "too easy" and wants absolutely everything to *mean something*, which is frustrating because frankly, most of elementary school feels somewhat meaningless to me, too.  I had started to suspect she was a visual-spatial, whole-to-parts learner, and that was confirmed by the tester.  

     

    So... anything jump out at you from those scores?  Any advice for a perfectionist, bright, practical VSL?  Keeping in mind that I have two other children, who also have exceptional learning needs and require a lot from me...

     

    Thanks!

    Heather

     

     

  2. Triage. I've got one confirmed 2E and two suspected 2E's. The kid who needs the most at any given point in time gets the testing/therapy/parent-intensive program/etc. I'm not happy about doing triage, but I've got limited budget, time, and patience for dealing with bureaucracies.

    Yes, that is definitely the case!  I'm just having a hard time objectively identifying who's needs are most urgent at the moment.  I think I have identified the 7 year old's reading as the area I need to focus on, as if I can get him reading well, that will free me up to work more intensively with the others.

     

    The 8 yo, if he has no actual LDs, is probably going to learn quickly.  I would give him clear structure so he can work every day at his developmentally (physically) appropriate *amount* even though the level might be lower.  So if say you give him R&S or ETC or whatever you're using, he should work 35 minutes a day on each thing (35 minutes ETC, 35 minutes of math, 35 minutes of audiobooks where he turns the page to follow along, 10 minutes of handwriting, etc.).  I'd give him STRUCTURE so he can do that work.  The trouble is that in a lot of ways, he IS 3-4 developmentally.  His attention span is minimal and so is his willingness/ability to work independently.  His psychiatrist has said I should basically back WAY off on anything academic and just play with him and focus on building connection.  Also, because of ESL issues, even books like the R & S preschool books are too "hard", ie, a picture of a mop might be called a "floor cleaner", which is accurate, but doesn't start with "m", lol.  

     

    On the 7 yo, I don't know on the computer math.  Sounds great until you find out they aren't getting it done.  If he can't read, well a lot of that screen work requires some reading.  If he's 7 and gifted and can't read, it's time to do the Barton pretest.  If he fails the Barton pretest, you can go ahead and do LIPS.  It depends on which sections he fails, so that's why I'm saying go ahead and do it.  It won't require tons of vision and even just 15 minutes a day of effort would add up.  That way when you've got a couple months of VT under your belt you'll be in a position to start Barton.  http://bartonreading.com/students_long.html#screen That's the link.  So his basics are VT, math with you (20 min, whatever), and LIPS.  

    Ok, we did the Barton Pretest and he passed.  In section C, he heard /ch/ as /p/ both times, but those were his only errors.   Our current "reading plan" is lessons in OPGTR, supplemented with McGuffey's Primer and other early readers.  He does pretty well with those, but sometimes adds random letters (as a made up example, might read "punk" as "plunk".  If I ask, where is the /l/?, he can self-correct).  He mixes up small words like they/then.  We are doing level one of AAS (currently on lesson 16) and he gets every work correct.

     

    The 10 yo.  Are there things she likes to drive for herself?  Hate to rock your homeschooling world in a bad way, but you could do NOTHING with her formally, let her explore anything that interests her (assuming she wakes up and uses her time profitably), facilitate her learning, make sure she does math every day and writes something, and the world would NOT END.  People get so OCD about homeschooling and think the best and only valid learning is what they create in little tidy, prescribed learning units.  That's for kids who don't feed themselves.  If she DOES feed herself, then you just have to facilitate.  My dd has an ADHD label and similar IQ to yours, and for her STRUCTURE is extremely important.  Structure just means a clear plan, clear expectations.  It doesn't necessarily mean mom-driven.  Make a basic subject template (checklist) for her and sit down at the beginning of each week to fill it in.  Fill it in together, letting her say what she wants to do for things.  Clear expectations.  Let her work the plan.  

    Great ideas and encouragement here.  I will try to give her more freedom within structure.  She is using Exploration Education for science and that is going really well.  I decided I will hold off on MCT until fall and re-evaluate then.  Right now she is doing AAS 5, FLL 4, Queen's LA, and random writing assignments.  I introduced her to the Inspiration Software yesterday, and she took off with that and is writing a report about dolphins.  Good enough! ;)

     

    Personally, I'd focus on skills (something LA, something math for each child, each day) and then have a SIMPLE plan for gravy.  That simple plan would be a history spine, science spine, poetry book, scripture memory (if you do that), and a read aloud in a basket by your chair.  Any day you're home at 1pm, sit down in the chair and read for 30 minutes.

    DD10 and I are working through Sonlight D combined with a Canadian history program I developed myself.  The trouble is, it is over the heads of the boys.  The boys and I read from assorted anthologies, and everyone reads (or is read) a chapter book at bedtime.  I am (slowly) doing Sonlight Science B with the boys together.  Theoretically, I should do something history/social studies-ish for the boys but that isn't happening.

     

    You've got a LOT going on.  You might let swim lessons drop.  I'd even let piano drop for a while.  They can practice anyway, but recitals in the spring etc. are going to drive you crazy.  Drop some non-essential things and dno't make bones about it.  You'd rather have cookie day and one day a week at home in peace than to be running every single day and frazzled.  Swim lessons will be there later.  VT is not forever.  Good reminder, thanks!

     

    [snip]

    So much good advice in this post!  Thanks so much for taking the time to write it out!

     

     

    I think you have to outsource some when there are multiple needs. That could be as simple as outsourcing to a computer program, or it could be more involved with online classes and accountability to another teacher, or a co-op, or tutors.

     

    I am also using technology to gain a bit of work accomplished without Mom. I have one kid on Keyboarding without Tears while I'm working on math with the other and then I have the first kid move to Reading Horizons while I work with his brother on math. I've chosen not to outsource math because I need to see where they are making errors to better direct their learning. I already know where they make errors in reading (dyslexic) so adding extra practice doesn't require me to be present and engaged.

     

    Good ideas, thanks!

     

     

    I'm with Elizabeth - pair down in this season of life (I also agree with the concerns about math on the computer - although I wonder about the math one by Reading Eggs?).  Let everyone adjust and begin to focus on the big picture - bring all these kids together and forming positive, loving attachments to one another - a family.  Yes, the kids have some issues, but trust me, it'll all work out in the end but the most important part is the relationships - learning, gaining knowledge - we do that our whole lives.   Yes, we basically took last year off school and focused on relationships and "family skills".  I'm just feeling like with Thomas not reading, and Faith already in 5th grade, we risk derailing their overall educations if we don't "get going" soon.  Maybe that is misguided, though.

     

    Your dd is VSL/RB - awesome.  That is a giftedness and a challenge.  What curriculum were you looking at that you feel is very teacher intensive?  I was considering MCT but I've decided to wait. I've got a VSL/RB and he's the easiest to work with and teach.  And keep in mind that RB/VSL comes in two forms - visual print/visual picture.  I've seen many parents that figure out their child is RB and immediately think everything needs to be on the computer and in the end, big fail.  They didn't focus on part two - how does the child best learn.  Reading books?  Hands-on projects?  Presentations?  The VSL kiddo does take creativity but focus on the strengths - they are very artistic so rather worksheets they might do better with notebooking and just the freedom to write what they learn about the subject.  Just thinking out loud here.  It's mostly that the curriculum we use is very "precept upon precept" (FLL, Math Mammoth) and sometimes I feel like she gets bogged down in the details....

     

    [snip]  Thanks for sharing your experiences!

     

    Oh, and to answer your question -- by grace, one day at a time, some days one minute at a time.  Amen!!

     

     

    (((hugs)))

     

    I really don't know if I do manage everything well for all of them.  I manage.  We do some things well, we do some things adequately, and some things are set aside for a period of time while focus on other things. I rotate the focus. If I feel like I neglected some thing (or some one), then the next time I plan a change, I pay more attention to that subject (or person.)   I suppose that is the best any of us can do!  Hugs to you!!

     

     

    You've gotten some great advice, but I want to chime in with some ideas about your 10.5 y.o. I have a boy the same age, and he is 2e (spectrum). He learns whole-to-parts (big picture), and then he requires a drive by of more linear stuff to spackle the cracks and holes. I have a friend with a daughter in 6th grade that is very whole-to-parts, top down, etc. I am tutoring her in grammar. I was a big picture, whole-to-parts thinker but didn't know it for many, many years. I am verbal visual--words in print often are enough, but I have grown into a lot more visual stuff. Anyway, long story short with me and these two learners, we all have the same problem--if we don't have some kind of discussion or check in with a teacher or another person, we MISS some piece of the big picture and just spin wheels. We often learn things WRONG that have to be undone because our brains are wired to connect ideas, and talking can help us connect. Now that I am an adult, I can recognize which kinds of books will help me and which ones will drive me nuts. I also sometimes enjoy a good hunt for the main idea, but not when I am under duress. Kids this age are not quite independent enough for that, though they may be able to do that for subjects that really motivate them.

     

    I would focus on the format of your teaching with her, realizing that you will probably see a payout in the end from teaching her effective top-down learning strategies and scaffolding her while she gets used to them. If necessary, go ahead and put in as much work as you are able to (even if it's not ideal) to see how much it helps. It's better to not get quite as much done than to force something that doesn't suit and having her learn things incorrectly. You don't have to have perfect, but it does help to honor that learning difference if you can. For instance, go ahead and maybe do just the grammar portion of MCT. Choose an appropriate level of challenge, and don't do it every year if it's too much. But teach her the four-level analysis (and add diagramming if it helps). Have her follow the 4-level method for every grammar question that comes her way until she's comfortable with it, and then maybe get a less intense grammar program. Use the other program's exercises, but have her follow that 4-level method and show her how it relates to punctuation rules, etc. Things like capitalization are things to teach her to look up in a book, while she can keep a list of possible red flags for knowing when to use that reference (Language Mechanic has a chart that categorizes capitalization rules). Make her a chart that talks about how what she's learning plugs into the MCT framework so that she has a visual roadmap for problem-solving. Then, she might be more independent. If you have a good conceptual understanding of grammar, maybe you won't need MCT to give her a top-down, big picture overview; you could do it yourself. Then, you can spiral through the details as you want to each year. Or, you can focus intensely on just one area, always referring back to that big picture you gave her. As long as she has a way to relate what she's doing to the big picture, she can probably figure out where she is and how to plow through.

     

    You might find some graphic organizers she can complete when she does content subjects--these would clarify her big picture thinking, and maybe she'll learn to identify where she is stuck and ask for help. Organizing Thinking by The Critical Thinking Company has some great graphic organizers with lessons on how to use them. You can also use the organizers with other subjects. The Reader's Handbook also has some whole-to-parts teaching on how to learn from lots of different kinds of books, and it's FULL of graphic organizers. I use the 6-8th grade level. I think you can get supplemental books that have the organizers or specific "how-to" assignments in it. 

     

    These are just examples of how to train a big picture thinker to maybe gain some independence while adding skills that will keep her from going off the rails--you wouldn't have to use the things I've mentioned. The young lady that I'm tutoring in grammar is totally missing the trees in her current grammar program because no one has told her what kind of a forest she's in. Just a little nudge that lets her know she's in the forest and what kind it is, and she's suddenly making connections and finding her mistakes.  

     

    It's hard to do it all, and we have had periods of time where we did the barest of basics. We are fortunate to be able to outsource composition to a tutor--that is a subject that is totally trial and error, not a lot of rhyme or reason to what works. I can say that with confidence now because the tutor (and intervention specialist with a lot of experience) is running into exactly the same "huh?" moments that I have. Sometimes hearing that it's not what you're doing that's a problem, it's just a quirky situation is really confidence-boosting.  So much good advice here!  I will have to mull it over and figure out how it fits for us...

     

     

    Thank you all so much for your words of wisdom and encouragement.  I may post again asking for help fleshing out a particular child's program...  For now, I have lots to ponder...

  3. Thanks so much for your reply!  Yes, my ADHD is medicated and that helps a ton.  

     

    Audiobooks are a great idea... I need to plan more of that for our drives.  And I am looking into a computer-based math program for Thomas, if I can find one that doesn't require independent reading.  I think maybe Teaching Textbooks, if I can figure out placement.  

     

    Faith does quite a bit independently, but I'm feeling lately like it is not the "richest" material, you know?  I feel like she needs more from me... More discussion etc... I would hate for her love of learning to continue to suffer because I keep choosing "efficient" material... 

     

    This is just so much harder than I envisioned (and frankly, than the first 4 years of homeschooling were, when I only had one "student" who's needs weren't really unusual yet and just presented as a "quick learner"...

  4. I haven't posted much about my kids' strengths and weaknesses, so I'll do that briefly here before asking for advice...

     

    Faith - 10.5 year old daughter - 5th grade.  Homeschooled since K.  Very smart but perfectionistic.  Has had psych-ed testing but still waiting for results.  Preliminary phone call made it sound like she is "gifted" but I don't know if we're talking 120 or 140+, you know?  Learns things easily but has trouble working independently.  Often feels like things are either "boring" or "impossibly hard" and it is hard to find the middle ground.  I suspect she is a VSL and needs a big picture approach.  It seems like curriculums that support this style are very parent/teacher intensive and take a lot of time.

     

    Thomas -7.11 year old bio son - 2nd grade.  Homeschooled since 1st.  Very bright but struggles with reading.  Has just started Vision Therapy (30 minutes of practice daily) and is on the wait-list for psych-ed testing (dyslexia? gifted?).  Because he can't read, he needs my help for all subjects, including math, where he is working ahead of level (late 3rd/early 4th?).

     

    Bereket - 8.0 year old adopted son - "2nd grade".  This son was just adopted 18 months ago from Ethiopia.  He is also very bright, learns things like games quickly, but academically is more like a preschooler.  Working on letters, numeracy, colors, rhyming, etc.  Also in an intensive Trauma and Attachment group that meets weekly and has daily "homework" with me.

     

    Mom - 35 years old.  Gifted IQ + ADHD and anxiety (medicated).  Struggles with keeping all the balls in the air.  Likes to have a written plan, but kids are so unpredictable, it is hard to plan very far in advance.  We have 18 medical/therapy appointments in March, plus things like piano lessons and swimming lessons.  Feeling spread very thin, and like there are no real options other than to keep homeschooling, as all kids have exceptional learning needs.  

     

    So... all that said, how on earth does a person do this well?  I'm feeling like I need to re-examine our homeschool methods/curriculums as I am using a bunch of things that are relatively easy for me to implement but don't actually provide the right style of instruction for my kids.  BUT, everything that seems more appropriate seems SO teacher intensive (MCT LA for Faith, Barton for Thomas, etc.).  I want homeschooling to be a positive experience for the kids AND me, and at this point, I feel like it is sucking the lifeblood out of all of us... 

     

    Help!  Any tips, advice, insight, encouragement is welcome!

  5. Something I do to reduce the number of dishes used is to be somewhat strategic in the order I do my prep. For instance, if I cut the meat up first, I will use a different cutting board and knife for the veggies, but if I cut the produce first, I can use the same knife and board for the meat. Dry ingredients measured before wet so I can use the same measuring cups etc. It doesn't make a huge difference but it does help.

  6. Thank you so much for posting this.  My "old" size is the same as yours was (34A/B), and I'm still having trouble believing that this new size could possibly be right!   :lol:  But if it's working for you, then I'm encouraged.  I'm going to place an order today.

     

    I tried PM'ing you but it says your mailbox is full (or something).  Try Winners/Marshall's!  I've found 5 or 6 bras there for $10-16!    I love the Calvin Klein Custom Lift bra, and I have found it several times for around $16 in a 32D.  

  7. I have to chime in on the bra thing... I'm another who went from a 34 A/B to a 32D (and actually, I think a 30DD would fit even better but I'm in Canada and our online shopping is miserable. No free returns!). Anyway, on another board I'm on, a whole bunch of gals all switched to the "new" method of measuring and pretty much every one, including the gals who are much bustier than I, were wowed by the fit of their new bras! It really is incredible! Now I need to find a strapless in my new size for summer. I wore a 34B again yesterday for the first time in months and remembered how ridiculous it is! Lol

  8. This makes me giggle because I actually put "Random Act of Kindness" on my kids' chore charts a couple months ago. Yes, I know " assigned" would make more sense... The "random" part is that they are supposed to notice a situation on their own... Two of my kids "get" it and one looks at it as a day off chores. Lol. I like "intention acts of kindness"... Maybe when I reprint the chart I will change it...

  9. I forgot to say that with my daughter, when we were doing revisions, I would say things like, "Have another look at "ovver"... Does that look right to you?"  (Might see the mistake, might not) "Can you think of a spelling strategy we could use to figure out the right spelling?"  (Maybe she can, or I suggest one).  "Right, so when we divide the syllables of ov-ver, we can see that we don't need the double v.  We want the long sound of O, so we need an open syllable."  Basically, I try to help her to identify her own mistakes, and then walk her through the correction explicitly if it is a rule/word she knows.

  10. Yes this is very normal.  When a child is writing a spelling test, they are typically only focused on the spelling, but when they are writing in other contexts, they are also concentrating on meaning, spacing, punctuation, capitalization, etc.   SWB mentions in one of her lectures that usually by age 9 they are able to apply what they have learned in other settings, and my own experience has been the same.

     

  11. Okay, so I'll just be brave and share some of her scores (this is for 4th grade).  This was our 2nd year homeschooling (and the first year was only 3/4th of the year).  I'm still kind of frustrated at the fact that my DD was not given a very strong "foundation" in her early years in PS.  But I'm hoping her test scores indicate progress. :)  This is the first time (for homeschooling) that we've done standardized testing.

     

    Overall Composite Scores:

    SS: 224

    GE: 6.5

    NS: 7

    NPR: 78

     

    We already know she highly struggles with spelling and the test definitely showed that: 26th% in Spelling for NPR!  Wonder how much that affects the overall score...

     

    What I see is a child who did better than 77% of her same grade nationally normed peers.  That is not a bad score.  Especially since you know her foundation from public school was weaker than you would like.  

     

    I looked at my daughter's third grade testing details (we actually skipped testing this year because of crazy life circumstances) and the weighting worked as follows.  Keep in mind this is the Canadian test, and a different grade, but maybe it will give you some idea.  The composite score was made up of the following 6 areas, equally weighted:

    -Vocabulary

    -Reading

    -Language Total*

    -Math Total**

    -Science

    -Sources Total***

     

    * Language Total was comprised of Spelling, Capitalization, Punctuation, and Usage & Expression, each weighted equally

    **Math Total was comprised of Math Concepts & Estimation, Math Problem Solving, and Math Computation, weighted equally

    *** Sources Total was comprised of Reference Materials and Maps & Diagrams, weighted equally.

     

    So in our test, if my math is correct (and I slept poorly, so it might not be, lol) Spelling was weighted about 4% of the composite score.

     

    Whether or not I aimed for 90%th percentile or not would highly depend on my assessment of my child's abilities.  For my DD, I would be very surprised by scores below that.  I suspect my boys are closer to "average" and will score around the 80%ile when I start testing them.  

  12. Hmm...interesting.  After posting my initial post, I received some PDF pages helping me to "read" the test results, kind of.  Under GE (Grade Equivalent), it says this:

     

    "For example, if Sally, a second grader, scored a GE of 4.7, it meas that she earned a score equivalent to what a typical student in the seventh month of fourth grade would make."  It goes on to basically say that this doesn't mean she's ready for 4th grade material, but that she has "a thorough mastery of the material covered on the second grade test."  

     

    Right.  But if Sally the second grader scored in the 90th percentile on a 4th grade test, it would indicate mastery of that level of material.

     

    If your 4th grader scored in the 90+%ile, it would also indicate mastery of *that* level.  90+%ile would likely correspond to a much higher GE.

  13. Found this that might be of interest to you... It was a quote from   the Iowa Acceleration Scale Manual (3rd edition), but I don't have a direct link to the manual: "In assessing achievement as it relates to making a decision about acceleration, earning a grade-level score that results in a ranking in the 90th-94th percentile indicates mastery (achievement) of the grade-level content."   

     

    I would extrapolate from that, that if you are wondering if she has "mastered" the content of her current grade, you would look for a NPR above 90%.

  14. So, as a homeschooler, knowing that some of the kids who are tested nationally don't get much academic support, what should my "goals" be for her scores?  She didn't do well on spelling, which I kind of expected.  She just really struggles with spelling, but we are working on that even through the summer with Apples & Pears.  I was kind of hoping she would score above 90% nationally in most things, but that's not her "average."  Can anyone else share how their kids have done on this particular test?  What are reasonable expectations?  For all the "scoring" methods: SS, GE, NS, Lexile, NPR, etc.

     

    Does %C Stu. mean the percentage that the student got correct?  And, if so, then if they got 100% correct on something, how is that only the 72nd National percentage?

     

    Sorry, I was on my phone before and didn't really answer your questions beyond the abbreviations.  

     

    Disclaimer:  I am not a educational testing professional nor do I play one on TV.  My daughter actually did the CTBS, as we are Canadian, but it is very similar.

     

    Where I find testing helpful is looking at areas that my child scored relatively low in, compared to her overall scores.  In your case, you noticed spelling, which you had already identified.  In my case, it was "Sources of Info" (read a neighborhood map and answer questions, etc), which made me realize that by focusing on History, not Social Studies, we had skipped some basic things.  

     

    The percentiles and GEs are more helpful when you have tested more than one year.  I look to see if my daughter is gaining at least the right amount of years (ie, if she scored 5.7 last November, I would look for 6.7 the next November).  I also expect to see her maintaining or gaining in percentiles.  If she were to "fall off her curve", I would investigate why.

     

    %C Stu does mean the percentage that the student got correct.  How that correlates to the NPR depends on how the "normed" population did on the test.  If a high percentage of the normed population got all the answers correct, that does not translate to becoming 99th percentile.  I think, if I'm not mistaken, your example would mean that 28% of the normed population got all of the questions in that section correct.  So scoring 100 means you did better than 72% of students.  Does that make sense?

     

    If you google "interpreting ITBS scores" a number of helpful links come up.  

     

    I hope this helps.  If you have any other specific questions I am happy to give it a go.

    Heather

  15. To the OP... I don't think you have unrealistic expectations. I am very close to my parents and even though they live an hour away, they come to help and/or visit very often. I consider them part of my "support network" (which also includes friends and church). I would be very disappointed if they acted as if spending time with or helping me or the kids to be a burden. I can totally see why your situation is annoying and frustrating for you.

     

    I think, though, that there probably isn't much you can do about their lack of interest/willingness to participate in your lives. And so in that respect, drastically lowering your expectations would probably help with reducing these feelings of frustration on an on-going basis. It might first be worth having a very frank conversation (maybe best led by your husband, since they are his parents?) along the lines of, "Look, we moved here specifically because you said you wanted to play an involved and supportive role in our lives. When you said that, I thought xyz. I'm feeling now like maybe you meant something else. Can you tell me what you meant by involved and supportive?" (I'm on my phone and can't look back and see if those were the exact words used. But you get the idea). Anyway, I would hear their piece and be prepared to accept that they may disappoint you.

     

    Anyway, I'm very sorry you are in this situation and surprised how many pp found it "normal" as in my experience (and looking at most of my friends), it is not typical here.

  16. I also see signs of depression, or perhaps ADHD (I was recently diagnosed with ADHD, so I may be seeing it everywhere! Lol). But honestly, that combination of traits, especially if she's "always" been that way to some degree, would warrant evaluation by a psychiatrist in my family. I'd be looking for depression, ADHD, giftedness, or even Aspergers. All of those "conditions" can present in the way you describe, especially in girls.

     

    It really doesn't sound like a "character defect". Most people are doing as well as they can. (((Hugs))) I know it can still be very hard to live with, though.

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