Tokyomarie
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Posts posted by Tokyomarie
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With auditory analysis being quite low and word attack being moderately low, with visual processing being in the higher range, I would opt to look first for a full evaluation with an educational psychologist or neuropsychologist. Those lower scores, plus the lower processing speed, are red flags for dyslexia. Like Elizabeth says, you want to get a paper trail established using a psychologist so when you need accommodations for high school programs and/or SAT/ACT testing that it can be shown that your child has a history of a disability.
One source for potential evaluators is the database at the International Dyslexia Association website. At the top of the homepage, there is a "Find a Provider" link which lists evaluators as well as tutors and therapists.
You could also do an evaluation with a developmental optometrist if you wish to rule out any issues with eye tracking, etc, but with a higher visual processing score, it wouldn't be my first priority.
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Quote edited out & the beginning of my response edited slightly because the poster deleted her comments. The rest of my post stands since I think it is important for people to understand how the word "dyslexia" has been and is used in the DSM.
Dyslexia was not a diagnosis in the DSM IV, just as it is not now a diagnosis in the DSM 5. The individual categories of reading disorder, mathematics disorder, and written expression disorder from the DSM IV have been combined into Specific Learning Disorder in DSM 5, which may (possibly) be an improvement in that it recognizes that most students who have LDs have difficulty in more than one area of basic skills. Dyslexia was used as one descriptor in the supporting text of the DSM IV and it remains so in the DSM 5. So no, the mention of dyslexia has not been removed from the DSM 5, it just didn't get elevated to a diagnosis in and of itself.
The understanding of the underlying issues in the various diagnostic categories of LDs, autism, and ADHD continues to emerge. As our understanding of neurobiology improves, our ability to better distinguish syndromes will become more nuanced. For now, dyslexia is a fully valid descriptor to use for a student whose reading difficulty resides primarily in decoding at the word level and encoding for spelling- as opposed to a student who can decode words quickly and accurately but has difficulty with comprehension of connected text. A student with decoding & encoding difficulties may well, and often does, have difficulties in other skill areas, too, but it's the word level reading and spelling difficulty that allows us to use the label dyslexia for a particular student.
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The neuropsych may have additional questions for you on your child's history and behaviors, possibly informed by what he/she has observed during the sessions. 1/2hr is fairly short, so I imagine questions will be pretty focused on specific information the neuropsych is looking to gain.
As for anything additional related to what you are hoping to gain from the experience, please make sure the neuropsych includes recommendations for classroom accommodations to cover the possibility of your child entering a school at some point. Ours prefaced the information with a statement similar to, "In the event that the student enters a school at some point..." Other information you will want is how to manage any weaknesses found in the evaluation. Our neuropsych had recommendations for some medical testing, referrals to local therapy professionals, and information on best practices for teaching. Specific curriculum recommendations were not included and are not part of the expertise of most neuropsychs.
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Fifth grade was the year that reading became much easier and we were able to move into reading to learn mode.
Written expression has remained stubbornly resistant to coming up to ds's general cognitive level. He does well enough now, after significant therapy with an SLP/ educational therapist during high school but writing is still difficult.
However, he has chosen a career path that will emphasize his strengths and he is beginning to soar overall.
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Getting the right person is often as important as getting a person with specific credentials.
This is a very true statement. You want to find someone who communicates well with you and resonates with what you are thinking. The particular degree or qualification of the first person you see is less important than the above and whether or not the person you see views himself/herself as a coordinator of a treatment team. You want to be able to build a team of people who can be helpful. A person who is able to make referrals to specific others who can be helpful can be a real gem.
One question I would have for any potential care provider would go something like this, "I am struggling with behaviors x,y,z that I know sometimes get labeled ODD. How will you evaluate this situation to help us understand why he's behaving this way?" You definitely don't want to get locked into ODD as a one-stop label because you won't get the help you need to get to the underlying reasons for the oppositional behavior.
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I think I would go to a neuropsychologist to get the most thorough evaluation of cognitive, academic, and social functioning. But depending on the list of difficult behaviors, your son may need to also see a speech pathologist, an OT, a medical doctor, and/or a psychologist. Depending on your insurance you may need a referral from a physician to get evaluation services covered. If that's the case, I would look for a developmental pediatrician who can rule out medical issues that need treatment and coordinate referrals to other providers.
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When was his last private testing? What were the qualifications of the person who did that testing?
What is the plan for immediately after graduation? If it is community college, he won't need the ACT or SAT. He'll take a computerized placement test at the CC.
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Sending best wishes for all the parents here on the Learning Challenges board to experience greater confidence in 2014 in parenting and teaching their children who have greater needs than most. And for our children to build skills as well as confidence in themselves as learners.
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For background -- OG is short for Orton Gillingham. Orton was a reading tutor, and Gillingham was a reading tutor, who worked with him.
Just some corrections: Samuel Orton was a physician; Anna Gillingham was an educator and psychologist.
I want to say that I read a book by Susan Moats that really went into the characteristics of a reading program that would be good for dyslexia, I think it was that book. It was at my library, and then that is how I found out about the readingrockets website I like.
Another correction: the name is Louisa Moats. She has written a number of books on reading. The one I have, written for educators, is Speech to Print.
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Umm, I don't know why you were told that b/c that is far from true if you are discussing top tier universities. They are admitted on their own merits. Having a labeled disability is not going to give them an "admissions ticket." I completely agree with the highly creative and talented piece, at least in regards to my kids.
Heathermomster can add more perspective, but I suspect that the evaluator was using a bit of hyperbole to emphasize that her child is an extremely capable person who has a lot of potential to succeed in the academic world.
Knowing Heathermomster's posting style, I am pretty sure she realizes that admission to top tier universities is based on a) actual achievement to a significant degree and b ) winning the lottery of names pulled from amongst all those students who have very high achievement.
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What is the long term prognosis and/or plan for people with dyslexia (reading/spelling)?
The outlook has never been better than it is today. We know what works to help dyslexic people learn to read, spell, write, and do math. We know that what works is different from the typical teaching strategies used in schools and we know that dyslexic students usually reach their full academic potential somewhat later than other students. We also know that dyslexic people are intelligent and have many gifts to share with the world, and indeed many prominent people are dyslexic.
If you are unfamiliar with the positive perspective on dyslexia please check out the following websites:
DyslexiaHelp- hosted by University of Michigan: DyslexiaHelp is THE resource to go to for information on dyslexia traits, what constitutes a thorough evaluation of a student suspected of having dyslexia, tools for teaching dyslexic students, and many stories of successful people with dyslexia
Dyslexic Advantage- hosted by Brock and Fernette Eide, the authors of the book, Dyslexic Advantage, which was written to highlight the strengths of dyslexic people. They have spearheaded the start of an organization by the same name which is working to get the word out that dyslexia comes not only with certain weaknesses in learning to read and write but with talents that need nurturing.
Yale Center for Dyslexia and Creativity- hosted by Sally and Bennett Shaywitz, the authors of Overcoming Dyslexia. Overcoming Dyslexia was the first book to discuss the true nature of dyslexia and show that it results from an objective difference in the way the brain of a dyslexic person works during reading tasks.
Do you have particular questions related to a child in your family or someone else you know? Please feel free to ask. There is a wealth of information and experience parents on this board are happy to share.
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I can't point you to an exact reference right now to substantiate this, but ODD is a label that often gets applied to children who also have other labels. It is not so often used by itself, and doesn't come with good options for how do deal with the behaviors, that is interventions that are simply based on having that label. That is because behavior is communication. Non-compliant, angry, and other negative behaviors communicate that something is wrong in a child's world. Unfortunately, children, especially young children, don't have the communication skills and the life experience to be able to describe exactly "what" is wrong and/or are powerless to take action to improve internal &/or environmental conditions which may contribute to the behaviors.
If oppositional behaviors are so prominent in your daily experience with your child that you are seeking help, especially since you have an older child who is already diagnosed with an ASD, I would suggest a comprehensive evaluation which would look at all aspects of cognitive, educational, social, and emotional functioning. Such an evaluation may illuminate underlying reasons for oppositional behavior. Once those issues are addressed, oppositional behavior often improves.
Something else, maybe before you actually see someone, is to read works by the following authors:
Ross Greene (known for the Collaborative Problem Solving Approach): The Explosive Child
Howard Glasser (originator of the Nurtured Heart Approach): Transforming the Difficult Child
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I am so sorry to hear of your dad's passing, and so close to Christmas. I remember your dad getting sick close to the time my mom got sick. I have been touched by your commitment to be with your dad and care for him as much as you could.
May God hold you tenderly in these difficult days.
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There are a number of underlying issues that could be driving this behavior. Since it is something that has been ongoing since she was small, my recommendation would be for you to see a developmental pediatrician. A developmental pediatrician can help you investigate physical, neurological, and mental health problems that may lead to the behaviors you see. This kind of doctor is often found in major medical centers and in private practice in the cities around such centers.
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I agree with the others that an OT and a developmental vision eval with a COVD optometrist is warranted. With a handwriting score down at 68 and functional difficulty with tasks that are handwriting dependent, I'd want to find out what I could about what is holding back handwriting development. In looking for an OT, I'd want to know the OT's experience with testing various components of physical function that contribute to handwriting ability- including but not limited to coordination and strength in the hands, postural tone and core muscle strength, etc. Also, I'd want my OT to be familiar with how visual function can contribute to handwriting difficulties. I wouldn't want an eval that only looked at handwriting itself. Sometime an OT will do a cursory look at handwriting, then just start right out teaching Handwriting Without Tears (the most common program for handwriting taught by OT's). The OT should also be familiar with tools that are helpful, such as different styles of paper and writing implements.
Have you experimented with speech-to-text software yet? With good oral story recall and narration skills, I'm wondering if she would be able to translate that oral narration to computer via Dragon and get a product that's closer to what she can conceive of cognitively.
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Can you remind us of these things? Functionally, what are the tasks your daughter has the most difficulty with? What tasks are areas of strength?
What was her lowest subtest on the WISC-IV? What was her highest subtest?
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Thank you, Chris, for detailing your experience. As I have said before, my son entered a B&M school during 11th grade (and then was promptly reclassified as a 10th grader because it's a 3 year program) so the school took care of submitting the documentation. However, with complete up-to-date evaluations that demonstrated the need, the process was actually fairly straightforward. Whether you are looking for ACT or SAT accommodations, thoroughly reading the SSD portion of the Collegeboard site will help you understand what documentation is necessary.
I had been led to believe that ACT would be more difficult than SAT to get. Indeed the process at ACT is less streamlined. However, my son was granted everything we requested from both agencies.
My son did have to test through "Special Testing" because he had a computer accommodation for the essay. I'm not sure how streamlined finding a location for "Special Testing" for homeschoolers is because it involved school personnel proctoring him at school, on a different day, rather than sitting the test on the same day at a national testing location.
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I did a lot of outsourcing when I homeschooled high school, but outsourcing didn't get me out of the job of overseeing the work including discussing assignments, reteaching if necessary, and making sure homework was handed in. It did get me out of the job of setting the schedule, doing the main teaching, and being the grader. I continued to help with various executive function/study skills as necessary.
When I was teaching high school, I really could never go with the flow and take a vacation whenever it was convenient for my preferences, my husband's work schedule, or the prices in the travel industry. It was easier to take the occasional day off for such things as spending time with a terminally ill relative, but taking a one or two week vacation in mid-October or early March? Didn't happen.
If you are considering outsourcing- especially in your case- you need to know what you are dealing with in terms of the teacher's experience and their ability to differentiate for students who learn differently. You also need to understand the timeline for the class. Our co-ops around here operate on a 26-28 week school year. That seems to work fine for NT students in terms of the pace of the work and ability to complete what is normally a 32-36 week course of study. For students who learn differently, that pace may be too fast, and was for my son in certain ways. One class that was just right in terms of level of content and discussion was a poor fit w/respect to the writing requirements. We ended up differentiating by having my son participate in the reading and discussion and I had to come up with my own plan for written assignments and other ways to document learning. It benefited my son, but didn't get me out of the loop.
In the end, I enrolled my son in school because that was the only way to get live instruction on a less compacted timeline. We chose a non-traditional school setting; there was a huge adjustment but he was almost 17yo at that point and it was time for him to move on. The environment also allowed him to encounter more male mentors which has been probably the most valuable aspect of school. My daughters did well with outsourcing to local co-op classes, online classes, and some dual enrollment CC. They graduated from our home school.
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The student's own motivation is good reason to let them try what interests them, even if it may be difficult. That motivation will carry them far- just whether it's far enough to get the job done isn't always easy to see. You try to set up the best style of instruction for them and let them try.
On the sequencing issue, again, you just don't know until you try. But if things fall flat, it's one issue to consider. Each dyslexic person is different as regards the exact combination of challenges. One of my children with language-based learning challenges had no difficulties in this area, the other did/does. He's much better now, but ASL and martial arts when he was young were very challenging.
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Our kids are in the same situation. DS is currently studying roots and affixes. Our local dyslexia school teaches and encourages local tutors to spend time on a roots study prior to calling it quits on reading remediation.
Studying roots and affixes pays dividends that last over time. Both of my children with language-based challenges completed vocabulary study that focused on roots and affixes and they have scored well on tests of reading comprehension, including the SAT and ACT reading sections.
At our state's IDA conference this year, I listened to a speaker talk about ways to build vocabulary skills in the older student and the study of roots and affixes featured prominently in her recommendations.
TokyoMarie has many insightful opinions about FL. Maybe search her posts or contact her directly.
:blush5: . You are so kind, Heathermomster!
My basic opinion is that there should be no blanket recommendation that foreign language study should be avoided by dyslexic students.
The seeds of my opinion were planted back when I was raising my two children with language based learning challenges in Tokyo. In fact, my second dd was fully bilingual and attending the local Japanese public school when she was first evaluated. Our evaluator stated in his recommendation that families often do choose to drop the second language and concentrate on the first language, but that advantages for bilingual development are many and should be considered in the decision.
My son never picked up more than 5 words of Japanese in the 5.5 year he lived there after he was born. Probably he would have, had we stayed longer and enrolled him in the Japanese school the next year.
The important consideration for any dyslexic student pursuing a foreign language is for the instruction to be multisensory. My preference is for instruction to proceed with listening and speaking coming first, adding reading and writing later. There should be a lot of work with physical actions, concrete objects, and pictures rather than a focus on translation of written words from one language to the other.
Here is a helpful document from the International Dyslexia Association on foreign language study. It's in their Fact Sheets section.
As for ASL, it is often a good choice for dyslexic students. However, if a student has sequencing difficulties that extend to sequenced movement- ie trouble tying shoes, doing martial arts forms, other sports movements, they may also have difficulty with ASL.
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PT IS extremely competitive and typically GPAs of 3.5 or above are needed. I did my PT degree way back when it was still bachelor's level study. I did have slightly less than 3.5, probably 3.4 something, but I was also employed for 20-25 hours/week while taking 14-16 credits, so the school probably took that into consideration.
Sports involvement is not necessarily a requirement, unless you're looking to go into sports medicine, though your daughter will have that background. Having a strong interest in physical rehabilitation, which can be sports medicine related but can also be in other areas of disability, is a key.
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Just wanted to point out that this is not always possible. Some classes may be only offered at 8am (I teach one of those.), and for some multi-section classes, the 8am section may be the only one with seats left - or the 7pm lab section (which does not work well for a morning person). Students have to make sure to get their requirements in - they can't really be picky about personal preferences.
And many schools simply do not have the luxury of eliminating the 8am time slot because otherwise they would not have enough rooms available for classes.
It is challenging when the student gets stuck with attending evening classes and then has to turn around and be back at school the next morning for an 8am class. My son's IT classes mostly meet at night (6-10pm). Next semester there are only 2 Calc III sections and one of them conflicts with the IT classes, so guess what? He (and *I* if he doesn't have his license yet or the weather is too snowy) get to deal with getting home at 10:45pm at night and turning around and leaving at 7am so he can get there in time for his 8am class.
We had the same schedule last winter. Ds seems to be dealing with it ok. Youth has its advantages. My 50 something body isn't coping with that schedule so well, though!
PS: I commuted for my first two years of college. One semester I had that evening lab class with an 8am class the next day. I was SO glad my grandma lived right off campus and I could crash at her apartment on those nights instead of driving 30 minutes back home.
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This. It would be interesting to see studies that are controlled for behavioral factors and see whether teens with no access to evening social activities or electronic media show the same tendencies.
I would like to see this, too. When we lived in Japan during our older two children's pre-teen and early teen years, we had limited screen time, the internet wasn't yet such a draw, social media per se did not exist, and children didn't carry cell phones. More importantly, there were NO social activities at night for my kids to attend. Though we ate dinner on the later side, everything that happened after 6pm was geared towards winding down for the night. My girls never struggled in a major way with rising on the earlier side- though we didn't have ultra early rising times.
After we moved to the USA, we had to deal with evening activities multiple nights a week, internet use mushroomed, and due to my dh's preferences, TV/Video time mushroomed. Even so, I think perhaps because their systems were conditioned, my girls never fell into the super late rising times.
My son, however, has grown up with all of this evening stimulation and at about 9yrs of age began to have difficulty falling asleep at night. He now has a certified delayed sleep phase syndrome disorder. Thankfully, he has gotten to the point where he can get up in the morning if he has to, which is a major improvement over 3 years ago. However, I have often wondered if this would have been a problem had he grown up under conditions closer to what my girls had in their younger years.
Getting evaluations--please point me in the right direction!
in The Learning Challenges Board
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Just a quick note about abbreviations: DO is the abbreviation for doctor of osteopathy, an osteopath. OD is the abbreviation to use for an optometrist.