[article by trans woman concerned about peer pressure to be trans]

The queer discussion prompted a talk with youngest tonight. They are non binary and identify as queer. That word has been spoken quite a bit here and with both of my dc’s peer group and I haven’t experienced a negative reaction in so long, so I asked. They have zero problem with the use of the word by anyone as long as it’s not being used negatively. It’s how they view themselves so they definitely don’t see it as bad. 

[Bob Saget 😥]

I’ve been sad about this and honestly don’t understand why. I mean it’s usually sad whenever I hear about someone dying, but ugh. I guess it’s because I watched Full House some growing up and then watched it with my dc. It seems he’s been on my tv for a number of years so it’s sad.

[article by trans woman concerned about peer pressure to be trans]

2 minutes ago, MEmama said:

Please don’t throw up your hands. You are the epitome of kind, considerate and respectful. Please keep doing what you do. 🙂 

Unrelated to @regentrude, it’s super weird to me that people appear to be purposely conflating the stating pronouns in an email (etc) convo. Trust, no one cares if you don’t, but if you do it might make a big difference to someone who needs to see it. There’s not much nuance to not understand. 

Yes! Someone freely offering up their pronouns really help my non binary ASD kiddo, especially people in authority. It helps them feel safer in whatever setting they’re in when it happens. They don’t think anything one way or the other if someone doesn’t do it, though. It just makes those people stand out differently to dc if they need something in the future.

[article by trans woman concerned about peer pressure to be trans]

3 minutes ago, SanDiegoMom said:

20 states have conversion therapy bills. Canada just passed a conversion therapy bill as well.

I would be absolutely against a bill that makes affirmation only illegal as well.  That is ridiculous.  I am just frustrated that now talk therapy is labeled as conversion therapy.  People are more complex, their needs are more complex.    

I actually agree. I do think some of the talk regarding trans youth is too close to conversion therapy for my liking, but professionals should have some leeway to figure out for sure what’s going on. I’m not in support of laws in either direction that make it difficult for health professionals to do their jobs.

[article by trans woman concerned about peer pressure to be trans]

49 minutes ago, goldberry said:

Would someone please share what states have these laws that would make psychotherapy for trans persons illegal?  I don't think I've ever heard that and would like to read about it to confirm exactly what that means.

I’m honestly not sure, but my state actually submitted a bill just this month hoping to make it illegal for health care professionals to be affirming so it’s the exact opposite. It’s just one of the reasons we’re leaving as soon as oldest graduates this May.

ETA: That same bill in my state says health professionals shouldn’t be allowed to affirm/reinforce a minor’s sexual attraction either so I’m not sure how far they’re hoping to go. Sounds like it would also affect kids in therapy trying to work out any LGBTQ+ issues. So, no help for any of these minors here I guess.

[article by trans woman concerned about peer pressure to be trans]

11 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Patients suing doctors. You think a detransitioner should not be able to sue if sustaining injury from non evidence based treatment as s minor? 

I took your court reference to mean courts would interfere in regards to treatment, not lawsuits. That’s why we’re moving.  I don’t feel ok with courts deciding what treatments are allowed or not. I’ve always been fine with lawsuits against doctors and letting the courts decide if cases are legit for that particular individual.

[article by trans woman concerned about peer pressure to be trans]

The court theory is definitely an interesting one and one I for sure don’t agree with. It is a big reason we’re moving to a blue state this summer though. Conservatives are running the courts here and I know how they feel about my Ds. Mine are both adults now but I just don’t want to live somewhere that would do want some want in this regard. Many of these kids actually need more options than some think they should have.

[article by trans woman concerned about peer pressure to be trans]

28 minutes ago, KSera said:

Transition has clearly been very successful for your ds. There has to be a middle ground though as far as giving weight to the long term consequences, because there are also a lot of kids who transition and don't have that kind of mental health turn around. None of the trans kids I know closely enough to know something of their mental health status have lost their anxiety or depression diagnoses by transitioning. Sometimes there is a honeymoon period where the depression has lightened, but I also know several who are struggling now more than ever. I think it can be extremely hard when they make this big change they have been building up to, but their problems are all still there, and the transition didn't solve them. That can be crushing. So, some will have your ds's experience, which is great, but what is being done for all of those who don't and now they have the long term consequences without anything having been solved?

I’m quoting again because I don’t want it to seem to anyone that Ds doesn’t still struggle at times with anxiety and depression. He just doesn’t need medication for it now. Not that long ago we were doing something and he looked at us and said the body dysphoria was hitting him hard. It was his way of letting us know he was struggling and to be patient. It still happens but he’s better able to cope these days.

[article by trans woman concerned about peer pressure to be trans]

1 minute ago, KSera said:

Transition has clearly been very successful for your ds. There has to be a middle ground though as far as giving weight to the long term consequences, because there are also a lot of kids who transition and don't have that kind of mental health turn around. None of the trans kids I know closely enough to know something of their mental health status have lost their anxiety or depression diagnoses by transitioning. Sometimes there is a honeymoon period where the depression has lightened, but I also know several who are struggling now more than ever. I think it can be extremely hard when they make this big change they have been building up to, but their problems are all still there, and the transition didn't solve them. That can be crushing. So, some will have your ds's experience, which is great, but what is being done for all of those who don't and now they have the long term consequences without anything having been solved?

I’ve already said I definitely don’t have all the answers but I strongly disagree with stopping treatments completely, which seems to be what many want. I do think we have a lot to still figure out but I knew when my kid hit his point of no return and we had to do something. I know I’m not the only one.

I feel for those who have different experiences but I just disagree the answer is no treatment for anyone until we figure it out. There needs to be some way to treat these kids as we figure it out and therapy alone just doesn't work for many. I do think a common theme is that therapy isn’t done well in the beginning and we’re too focused on affirmation first. That needs to change but we need to come up with a point when they can move forward from therapy alone and I don’t agree that point is only adulthood.

[article by trans woman concerned about peer pressure to be trans]

6 hours ago, Baseballandhockey said:

I am far from an expert on this.  But I wonder if, somehow, this is what we need to figure out how to fix.  

I also wonder if communicating to kids who are exploring gender, or trying on transition, that social transition is a very big deal, forces them into a position where they are constantly needing to defend their position or their identity, if that makes it harder to try something different later.  

I did recently have a chat with Ds about how if all we’ve done thus far ended up being to just give him the space and time he needed to be comfortable and he changed course that we would 100% support him. I let him know that we wouldn’t regret anything because it was obviously what he needed at that time. He was receptive but let us know he has no second thoughts.

I think most parents know their kids best and some of us realize at some point that giving weight to some of those long term consequences people throw at us won’t matter if the kids won’t actually be here to experience them. Ds didn’t get excited about going to college until the last minute and he told us it’s because he just never pictured himself doing so because he didn’t think he’d still be here. After social transitioning, he was off all anxiety and depression meds and he’s been good since. I know it’s not the same for everyone but I hate to think of the kids like him that would be ignored by some the thoughts expressed here. 

[article by trans woman concerned about peer pressure to be trans]

14 minutes ago, livetoread said:

It's possible the persistence is caused by the social transition, but it's also possible that those more likely to persist are more likely to choose to socially transition. You can't randomly assign social transition to tease that out, so I think any conclusions are iffy.

Is the goal to have kids not be trans and instead gay if at all possible? If there are suggestions of that coming through the research (not pointing at that research - just in general), then I can see why there is some bristling. Maybe more of the people who came out as gay in earlier times actually would have been trans if that was more of a socially acceptable option. Having said that, I do recognize the medical issues associated with treating trans people and know there can be physical repercussions that aren't present in other non-cis/straight orientations, so if those can be avoided and mental health still preserved (big if) then I can see the point there. There is so much we still don't know yet.

Yes. Some say they feel it’s like conversion therapy and that many of these kids would be gay, not trans. It feels kind of like conversion therapy to deny trans kids treatment such as socially transitioning because some would just rather them be gay, not trans. There is so much we don’t know which is why we definitely need more research but, again, I don’t think in the interim we quit giving treatment to trans kids that work for many. There’s no easy answers.

ETA: FTR, my Ds is trans and gay so it’s a moot point for us. He’s now engaged to a  sweet girl but he’s dated both males and females. He wasn’t trying to escape being gay by becoming trans. 

[article by trans woman concerned about peer pressure to be trans]

3 minutes ago, KSera said:

Am I remembering correctly that you live somewhere where trans identification isn't all that common among young people? I wonder if that leads you to have a different experience of it there. I see some of the non binary kids I know push gender roles, but most of the trans boys/men I know become very male stereotyped in appearance (though usually not in interests, just appearance). I do know one trans young person who identifies as he/him, but that you would never guess it from anything other than that they state that they do, but that person is an outlier among those I know. They are one that I feel certain would not be on this road if not for their entire friend group being trans as well. If I can be frank in a group where no one knows the person I'm talking about, there is just absolutely nothing at all that rings true about that identification for this particular person--even their new chosen name is another female name. This person has not medicalized at all and is one I expect is highly likely to desist if they don't end up medicalizing before then. It's rough for trans males to desist and return to their female identities if/when they have already gone through a lot of irreversible testosterone-induced changes, and I admire the young women that have done that even so.

Yes, there were no trans students (that we know of) in his high school when he came out. It’s a very conservative area but thankfully no teachers or staff pushed back on using his preferred name and pronouns. Many students were nasty in the halls and such but none were violent. He has some trans friends now he’s met at college and through groups but it’s not a large group.

I do feel more around here are coming out as non binary, but not wanting any hormones or surgery like some of you are experiencing. Youngest is non binary but doesn’t want either of those things nor do they want to change their gender markers on any documents, so I think I’ve gotten lucky with all of that. 

[article by trans woman concerned about peer pressure to be trans]

4 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

I am okay with social transitioning, along with therapy, as a child. I'm okay with people who pursue more than that as an adult. I'm on the fence on hormones, but at this point it isn't something I have to have an opinion on. 

that said, I'm VERY concerned that kids my daughter's age are getting the message that if you are not a "girly girl" into pink and sparkles and totally boy crazy you must be trans. Or at the very least, a "demi girl". I'm hearing this from various kids moving in totally different social circles right now, all middle school aged, and it doesn't make me happy. I feel like there is suddenly no acceptance of girls who say, are not into make up or like baggy clothing, or boys who want to wear nail polish, or whatever. And if at age 10 or 11 you are not interested in a romantic relationship you are labled asexual. No...you are a child. You are not supposed to be looking for a relationship! That's normal! 

It feels like a lot of "normal" has been turned into conditions and problems. 

When I hear these things, it is weird. My trans Ds pushes gender roles all the time. He’s trans but has long hair, sometimes wears make up, sometimes paints his nails, wears a lot of pink and purple, the list goes on. Him being transgender has absolutely nothing to do with any of that so it’s always weird to hear it.

ETA: This also reminded me of talking with youngest around the time Ds came out. I told them it was ok to like boys, girls, both, or none. They told me if that had to choose then (at 13), it would be girls because boys their age were dumb. 🤪

[article by trans woman concerned about peer pressure to be trans]

1 minute ago, LMD said:

I would think that giving treatment that is evidence based, appropriate and proportionate would be the goal. Especially for kids.

The discussion of those treatments being accessed by minors should come after their effectiveness is proven, and I'm sorry but it's far from a settled question. 

 

I, obviously, don’t agree but thank you for answering. I know these discussions can get really heated (and some of that has been my fault for sure) but I’m honestly trying to understand better where everyone is coming from. 

[How much allowance do your give your kid(s) a month?]

We never did an allowance. When they were in high school, we opened bank accounts and I’ve just always made sure there was some money in it. That’s continued through college as well as adding a credit card. I might have done things differently if either were big spenders but they’re both rather frugal. 

[article by trans woman concerned about peer pressure to be trans]

5 minutes ago, KSera said:

I think a good starting point is proper exploratory care and therapy for kids with gender dysphoria. Currently, most practitioners are afraid to do anything other than instant affirmation as they are directed to do. They are told that to explore the underlying causes of the dysphoria and try to resolve them is akin to conversion therapy, which makes no sense because the opposite could be argued just as strongly (especially for all the kids who would be considered gay if they hadn't/didn't transisition to the opposite gender). I'm a science person, and currently there is little to no science guiding the narrative of what causes this phenomenon, and that is really problematic to me. If not for the prevalence of medicalization, most of this really wouldn't matter, but medicalization has some serious ramifications, and people are frequently far too cavalier about that given those ramifications--many of which the kids undertaking really can't comprehend at the age that they undertake them.

I totally agree that the mental health care for all of these kids needs to be overhauled and better. I also completely agree that therapy shouldn’t start with instant affirmation and drugs. I just disagree with those that feel drugs and social transitioning shouldn’t be a part of the process for minors at all because there are those who truly need those things. 

[article by trans woman concerned about peer pressure to be trans]

3 minutes ago, Terabith said:

I'm 100% for using preferred names and pronouns.  I am totally fine with puberty blockers, and my kids have friends for whom hormones and surgery in the teen years was 100% the right move.  These were kids who had persistent, intense dysphoria that had started at a pretty young age.  

I believe there is absolutely, 100% a need for trans affirming healthcare for children and teens, and simultaneously I also have questions and concerns about the exponential rise in especially people assigned female at birth transitioning.  The fact that 70% of the kids at my kid's school are trans/ nonbinary kinda makes me wonder about a bit of social contagion for my kid when my kid didn't show any signs of dysphoria prior to age 15.  And there really is absolutely no gender therapy to be had.  I thought we had one, but it turns out when the kid says, "I just want a letter for surgery," that's what they get.  

We did a legal name change.  We bought a binder.  I am worried about surgery, but we will support it.  I am praying that it resolves the dysphoria.  I just worry that a kid who also coincidentally developed tics when around people with tic disorders might be susceptible, and surgery is a huge, permanent change that I have questions about (but not strong feelings opposing).  Is it transphobic that I would like it to be entered into with more individualized, in depth evaluation than is remotely possible for us to get?

My college roommate is trans.  My kid's godmother is trans.  We have all sorts of trans adults in our life who I am proud of and love and support.  I was very careful when my kids were little to say things like, "Most of the time, people who are born with vaginas are women."  I've been advocating for trans rights since the 1990's.  

But I still have concerns and questions about the rapid increase in this phenomena.  Both things can be true.  

It's entirely possible that there's not really an increase, and that the incidence has always been whatever it currently is and people just feel more free to come out, and that would be awesome!  But it seems like an area that should be investigated and researched.  

I think we’re both at the same place. I do think there are things to be researched regarding how many are coming out. Where I have issues is with those who want no treatments for minors other than therapy. Ds had years and years of therapy but it was socially transitioning that made the difference. He’s now decided, at 22, not to pursue surgery at this time but is still on hormones. He’s also legally changed his name and gender markers. I’m ok with how things have worked out for him, but can also realize not everyone has had the same level of care and I know that’s a problem. I really hope things work out well for your dc.

[article by trans woman concerned about peer pressure to be trans]

16 minutes ago, LMD said:

 The question isn't what treatments they should be allowed, the question is what is the scientific basis underpinning the huge jump in trans identification (4000+% in girls) and what are helpful, appropriate and proportional treatments. 

Welcome to getting shut-down for asking questions, Kt. 

So, no treatment for any trans kids until this is figured out? Asking honestly and want to know what you mean. 

[article by trans woman concerned about peer pressure to be trans]

4 hours ago, goldberry said:

Isn't it possible to believe both things, that there can be social pressure impacting kids negatively as well as actual trans kids that need treatment?  I don't see how those things are mutually exclusive.

They’re not mutually exclusive but what’s usually said when these pieces come out is how no minor should be allowed puberty blockers, hormones, or surgery(completely agree with this one). There was a thread on this board not long ago about how calling trans kids by their preferred names and pronouns was harmful so not even social transitioning should be allowed for minors according to some. What treatment should they be allowed? What seems to be said is many are worried there are too many trans kids now and the only answer is no decent treatment for any to spare the truly non trans kids who might slip through the cracks, which is harmful to those who are trans.

We definitely need better access to mental health care but that’s across the board for everyone. I do think there needs to be a discussion on how to distinguish between those truly trans and those who aren’t but I have no answers on how to do so. I do know the answer isn’t to stop treating all of these kids with things that work for many.

This isn’t really directed at you, goldberry, but a jumping off point for how I’m feeling about it at the moment. I’m so tired of it all.

 

[article by trans woman concerned about peer pressure to be trans]

I’m only going to reply once and then not come back to this thread because I know too well how they go here, but I’m linking a Twitter thread for anyone interested in my own thoughts.

I’ll also say that I don’t think non trans kids are more valuable than trans kids, and I don’t feel the answer to any of this is to deny trans kids affirming care. Forcing my own trans child to wait until an adult would have killed him - not an exaggeration. He’s now a healthy, happy, still trans adult. I would have been one of those parents who didn’t think he showed any signs until he came out and I was wrong. I can clearly see now that wasn’t the truth. 
 

https://twitter.com/mavenofmayhem/status/1478773646327836676?s=21

[Confederate Grave, Part II. (Warning: dubious moral behavior mentioned)]

5 hours ago, SKL said:

 

We were taught as kids the simplistic story that the Civil War was over slavery, the good guys won, and the confederate flag was simply a symbol of all things bad.  Just like we were taught only good things about Christopher Columbus, etc., etc.  As adults, it seems the childish narrative of the Civil War is one of the few big stories we don't question.  It's like still believing in Santa Claus.

Um, I was actually taught the Civil War was not about slavery. I was also taught the Black Panthers were as bad as the KKK. It was my education and research as an adult that made me realize I had been lied to. It’s horrific that for a period of time I believed that garbage. Honestly, anyone still trying to say the Civil War was about anything other than slavery are the ones still trying to believe in Santa Claus, and it’s these kinds of posts that show why things like the OP should be posted and discussed.

[Confederate Grave, Part II. (Warning: dubious moral behavior mentioned)]

I’m from small town Texas and have known many people (some in my family) that had Confederate flags and felt it was about Southern pride. Most of those people don’t have those flags anymore because they know what it means today and it has everything to do with racism. The ones that still do have made it very clear that’s what it’s about as well. I don’t buy people are flying them in today’s times for any other reason.

[Confederate Grave, Part II. (Warning: dubious moral behavior mentioned)]

I haven’t commented because I’ve been trying to figure out how I feel. I do feel it’s wrong to remove something from a grave, but it’s also not working to just let people be wrong and to be “nice” in regards to racism. I think we have to do things now that make us uncomfortable if we ever hope for it to get better. I think that realization is even more difficult right now because I assume all these racist, Confederate flag flying people are also carrying guns. 

[Does this texture/type of cat food still exist?]

Our older kitty was also mostly just a gravy licker until I found these. She really loves these pouches but we do have to switch up the flavors for her daily because she is picky about eating the same one twice in a row. 🙃 I suggestions find them at the pet stores here but I usually just order from Chewy.

[Where are you traveling in 2022?]

We’re planning on NYC in early June. It’s a trip that was planned as a graduation gift for youngest two years ago but obviously canceled due to Covid. Everything is booked and we’re hoping it works out this year.