Nakia
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Posts posted by Nakia
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For my oldest, very mathy daughter, I make her redo them immediately. She tends to makes errors from carelessness. She almost never makes errors due to not understanding the material. She generally only does the odd problems, so that leaves all the even ones that she can do if she truly doesn't understand the material.
For my middle, not mathy daughter (actually has a math LD), I usually sit with her while she works. She's been doing TT for a while now and is doing very well, mostly independently. She's also working through some Math Mammoth, which she needs more help with.
For my 1st grader, I, of course, sit with her and oversee her math.
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I'm very excited. I bought Year 1, Unit 4 to finish up our school year. We've been doing history the WTM way, which I still LOVE and plan to use in a lot of ways, but I have felt drawn to TOG for years and thought this quarter would be a great time to try it out. I am excited about having bible included, great plans with lots of book choices, and most important, teacher notes (which I desperately need!!).
I am looking through the unit and like what I see. My current 7th grader, Anna, will get the most use of TOG for now (dialectic level). My 4th grader is using SOTW and doing well, and my 1st grader just goes with the flow. :D We will all do bible together, as a family, every morning.
Now my questions: I'd like to give Anna copies of the reading assignments and discussion questions for the week. I ordered the print and DE version. For a child that age, do you TOG users recommend I just print the questions in the guide and hand it to her? Do you require that the student write out their answers or just be ready for discussion with you? Speaking of discussion, how many times a week do you "meet up" with your student for discussion? Do you break the readings down day by day or give the student a weekly plan and have them break it down themselves? I think she would do perfectly well breaking it down herself because she does that with a lot of her subjects already. Lastly, does anyone know where I can find blank lesson plans geared toward TOG? Something that perhaps other TOG users have made? Hope that makes sense.
Have I mentioned how excited I am??
TIA!
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I'm very excited. I bought Year 1, Unit 4 to finish up our school year. We've been doing history the WTM way, which I still LOVE and plan to use in a lot of ways, but I have felt drawn to TOG for years and thought this quarter would be a great time to try it out. I am excited about having bible included, great plans with lots of book choices, and most important, teacher notes (which I desperately need!!).
I am looking through the unit and like what I see. My current 7th grader, Anna, will get the most use of TOG for now (dialectic level). My 4th grader is using SOTW and doing well, and my 1st grader just goes with the flow. :D We will all do bible together, as a family, every morning.
Now my questions: I'd like to give Anna copies of the reading assignments and discussion questions for the week. I ordered the print and DE version. For a child that age, do you TOG users recommend I just print the questions in the guide and hand it to her? Do you require that the student write out their answers or just be ready for discussion with you? Speaking of discussion, how many times a week do you "meet up" with your student for discussion? Do you break the readings down day by day or give the student a weekly plan and have them break it down themselves? I think she would do perfectly well breaking it down herself because she does that with a lot of her subjects already. Lastly, does anyone know where I can find blank lesson plans geared toward TOG? Something that perhaps other TOG users have made? Hope that makes sense.
Have I mentioned how excited I am??
TIA!
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Thanks everyone! I have Introductory Algebra already. I find it difficult to sort through the Lial books choices.
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My current 7th grader is almost done with Lial's pre-algebra, and I'm planning to use Lial's algebra with her, I think (we already own it). Does Lial have books that cover geometry, algebra 2, and so on? I'm thinking ahead. I've always heard that you need to try and find a math curriculum and stick with it through high school. Maybe that's not necessarily true. That's another thing I've been wondering about.
TIA!
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I purchased TOG year 1, unit 4 DE version today. I'm having major printing issues. I'm using a pc and a nice brother laser printer and it has taken me, literally, one hour to print 10 pages. I'm about to lose my mind, lol (that's a hysterical lol, by the way). Anyone familiar with TOG DE versions and/or locklizard who can help me out?
Thanks!
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I'm familiar with the behavioral/developmental ped because Cora goes there. She has ADHD, and they monitor her and adjust her meds.
The school psych wasn't able to officially diagnosis Emma because she's state employed, not private practice. But we have so much information, and I'm going to take that to Olson Huff (the beh/dev ped). They'll do a few more tests, and we'll go from there if they believe she has ADD or something else. It might be overkill. :/
I keep thinking about the medicate/don't medicate dilemma. Cora (7 years old) has pretty much "textbook" ADHD. Medication has, quite literally, changed her life (and our family dynamics!). Emma doesn't have the hyperactivity/impulsiveness that Cora has. I'd love to hold off on meds for Emma at this point because I want to see how the therapies help her. Also Emma is very underweight; she's not even on the growth chart for weight. She's just really tiny, and I don't want her to eat even less and lose weight.
As of right now, we've chosen not to go to a neuro psych. I'm not sure they'd be able to give us any more information than we have at this point. Or maybe they could give us an official APD diagnosis, but the we'd still end up with the SLP. Actually the SLP is billing Emma's therapy as APD. Gosh, now I'm confusing myself. LOL!
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Awww, that is really kind! We're doing really well. Emma started speech therapy two weeks ago, and we LOVE the SLP. We have a plan for 12 weeks of weekly therapy sessions plus "homework" to go along with it. It is the therapist's opinion that Emma will need more than 12 weeks, but our insurance only pays for 12 weeks. I am positive that if we get a doctor's order (no problem with that) and a recommendation from the SLP that she needs more than 12 weeks, we'll get it approved. If not, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. The SLP really thinks Emma also has APD as well, but we aren't, at this point, going for formal testing. I've gotten so much good information from the SLP that I don't think a formal diagnosis of APD is necessary right now.
She's been to, I think, 7 sessions of VT. The VT says he's never seen a child improve so rapidly and work so hard. That made her (and me!!) so happy to hear. She is really working very hard. I don't know if it's just me being hopeful, but I am sure I already see improvements. Maybe it's just the relief of knowing I have help, and we're going to get through this.
We haven't pursued a counselor. I don't know if we will, but I do know that we've got soooo much going on, we can't deal with it right now. That might sound weird, but I feel like we need to get through VT and ST first, I want to see how much her anxiety improves with the help she's getting. She's handling everything with so much grace. She's such a gem of a girl!!
We still have the appointment with the behavioral ped on 4/1 to eval for ADD. I don't know how I feel about that. I keep reading about APD vs. ADD. It could be either or both. I guess we'll see.
Thank you so much for asking!!
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SKL, I'm glad you're getting help too. It's a tough road, but at least we aren't alone. :) Do keep letting us know how things are going.
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Whew! I know it! I would have lost my mind by now if we had just kept on like we were! I'm so glad I posted here and on a facebook group I'm on because you all have encouraged me so much. I got /get so sick of hearing "oh, she'll get it eventually!" from people irl. I know she will get it "eventually", but eventually used to look like never. Now I'm okay with labels and whatever else as long as we help our girl.
I am getting a private SLP eval. The school psychologist did give me the name of a university clinic about an hour from my house, but I found one closer at the local hospital. They have good reviews and seemed very helpful on the phone.
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We're going to see an SLP, who specializes in the kind of problems that Emma's having, next Wednesday. Everything is coming together!
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I hope it goes well!!!
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You can pm me anytime, Bethany!! I'll help in any way I can.
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I don't have a dc with anxiety, but I have opinions. :) My opinion is pursue as much help as you can within reason. Every time you stretch out and ask for help, rather than hoping it goes away, you *learn* something. Nothing says you have to keep going for some extended period of time. You're just walking in the door and asking for some help. How long you stay is just your need. My understanding is that the plasticity, the ability of the counseling to get in and help them with the anxiety is greater now than later, meaning I would make the move now.
No, I would not think a neuropsych eval right now would bring any more than you've learned. It seems like they've been exceptionally thorough. Did you talk meds? We haven't done meds, so I don't know about the process for that. Seems like if you want them, it would be nice to get them sooner.
My question then is about the speech. Did they recommend a speech eval for her? What are they saying is causing the gap with her verbal expression? You could have a lot of behaviors coming from that. Social withdrawal when there are communication problems is very common. Kids can get a spectrum diagnosis and lose it when you improve the speech. We wouldn't have considered our ds withdrawn, but after a bit of ST he started to come out more, making it clear how much he *had* been. So that's what I'd be asking. I don't even know the whole list of things that could cause those symptoms. Sometimes you can find someone who specializes in xyz. Our SLP specializes in apraxia and feeding disorders, but with expressive language problems in her clients she farms them out to someone else. So see what you can find. As a homeschooler you're in a unique position, because if you find someone to WORK with you, they can teach you and help you carry the techniques over at home. You can weave them into your day, into games and things you'd like to do naturally. The therapy system assumes a disinterested parent (my blunt take), so it's lots of visits with them doing it at $100 an hour. You want to find people who want to work with you and who want to help you carry it over at home.
Yes, they were very thorough!! I have to agree about the counseling. As a patient in the mental health system, I know how important a good counselor can be. And it feels good to be empowered and know ways to help improve things. I want the same for Emma!
We didn't talk meds. That will be something I'll talk to the behavioral ped about. I don't *think* it's something we'll want, but how knows. I'd like to try the non-pharmacological recommendations before starting meds, of course. I'm not against meds; I just don't think it's time right now.
Thanks for reminding me about the speech eval! She did have a basic speech eval at the school, which didn't show any significant delays. But again, that was just a basic eval. The school psych mentioned a more in-depth eval, but then we started talking about something else and didn't get back to it. I'm going to email her as soon as I'm done typing this response.
Sadly, I have found that many "systems" assume a disinterested parent. The EC team seemed surprised that I had a list of about 10-12 questions about the test results. Lots of medical professionals seem surprised when I ask challenging questions and want to know what's going on with my kid. It's a sad thing.
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I had the final meeting today with the Exceptional Children (EC) team at the school. It went better than I ever imagined. I am overwhelmed with gratitude!!
Problems/concerns:
*Emma has a large gap between verbal and spatial ability
*difficulty with verbal expression (she understands a lot more than she can express)
*gap between literal comprehension and inferential comprehension
*difficulty with essay composition and organizing her thoughts on paper (tbh, this is the area I am least concerned with because we don't do a ton of writing, and I think this will come with age and experience)
*major difficulties with math fluency and math problem solving (math problem solving was the area of greatest concern) and she meets the criteria for LD in math problem solving ability
Emma meets the criteria for ADHD-inattentive type. We're seeing a behavioral pediatrician in April to talk about this area of concern.
She also met the criteria for diagnosis of anxiety, depression, and those other internalizing behaviors I already mentioned. The behavioral ped will evaluate this as well as the ADHD-inattentive type. The EC team recommended I bring her to a pediatric psychologist who specializes in play therapy.
The EC director told me that I am more than welcome to attend any classes/training/seminars that the teachers go to to learn about math LDs and strategies to help students. She also welcomed me to use any of their materials that they use for children in the EC program. She told me that math LDs are being studied more and more and that there is a lot of help available. She also mentioned tutoring, which I had never considered, but I am now. She is going to give me a list of tutors in case we decide to go with that.
The list of recommendations to help Emma is wonderful!! Simple stuff that I'd never thought of! And of course, more complex things to help as we move along. The area that I don't have a lot of recommendations or insight into is the difficulty with verbal expression and verbal ability.
I'm considering neuropsych testing, but I don't know if I want to go there right now. It seems silly not to, but on the other hand, maybe it's not necessary? I don't know. A processing disorder could explain lots of these concerns/difficulties. I can't decide about the psychologist for counseling. Her anxiety has improved IMMENSELY over the last two years. But I want her to have strategies to help her anxiety.
I feel better. We have lots of decisions to make, but I know it's going to be fine.
Thanks for listening. Hope everyone is having a happy Monday.
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It looks like you got a pretty thorough assessment from the school. That's terrific! It will be interesting to see what recommendations they make. That's what will be the most helpful. You want to find out what they recommend for types of curriculum and teaching methods, any therapies, and ways of approaching any behavioral issues.
Internalizing and externalizing behaviors can be seen as "communication." They tell you that all is not well in the child's world, but don't tell us why. Often, in a stable family situation, they are a child's way of coping with the frustration of not being able to communicate effectively in verbal ways with family and friends and/or the frustration of realizing that their "work" (academics) doesn't measure up to their perception of what adults expect of them. In our family, we chose to work on the processing issues, language development, and our approach to academics. When we got those tweaked, we found that behaviors correlated with anxiety and depression began to fall away. Now, in our case, those symptoms were relatively mild on a spectrum- we were not in any serious mental health crisis, so we had time to figure out if changing our approach to school and life influenced the emotional situation.
Thanks for the support! I'm excited to see what happens at the meeting tomorrow. I do think a lot of the internalizing behaviors are coping mechanisms. I do have to use caution with that because we do have a significant family history of mental illness including anxiety, depression, etc. I myself have bipolar disorder. I'm watching her closely. Like you, we're not in a crisis so I feel like we have time to see how changes will affect her behavior.
Ditto what Marie said. I'm so glad for you that they're being thorough and giving you so much help! That's a ton of good info. That's kind of weird that the psychologist won't/can't diagnose, since ours sure did. Is it a school policy thing or a masters vs. phd thing? And yes, like Marie, we've had that experience where the behaviors were because of the communication problems. Definitely don't assume stuff is personality and immovable that could improve as you improve that ability to communicate. Hopefully they're going to talk with you about therapy things you can do to help her. If they don't and it's a budget thing, then I suggest you ask what you WOULD do if money were NOT an issue. You want to hear that discrepancy. Good therapy with someone who's experienced and can dig into the heart of the problems can be life-changing. So definitely ask that question.
Well good for you. That's a ton of info to process, probably will take you a while. So the follow-up meeting is Monday? When we did ours, someone on the boards here suggested I write out all my questions. I did and left space to write the answers. Turned out to be very good advice. Hope your meeting goes well. :)
You've been a gem to me through this. I really appreciate you! The psychologist said she can't diagnosis because she's state employed in the school system. I don't know...guess it's a school policy. I'm not sure.
I'm waiting to see what happens with the behaviors and watching her closely. I've seen her come out of her shell soooo much over the last two years. It's been amazing. She's still quiet, easily frustrated often, anxious, and kind of a Debbie Downer often. I think she's such an Eeyore sometimes. :(
I have great news about the neuropsych testing!!! I called my insurance, and they now WILL pay for testing for processing disorders with a neuropysch. This is a new benefit, and I'm so excited. When I called in the fall, they said they did not pay for it. First I found out they will pay for VT and now this. I feel it's Christmas, lol. I called our ped and got some recommendations for local neuropsychs, and I'm going to call those offices on Monday to try and get an appointment. I don't know what all a neuropsych tests for. Would you mind to give me more information on that? Or give me a link I can look at? When I googled, I got confused quickly. I feel like I'm processing soooo much info at once!
I'm trying to formulate questions I have for the school psych tomorrow. Working on that tonight. :)
Thanks to both of you soooooo much!!!!
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This was testing through the school system. It was very thorough, and I know there is a lot of good information. The psychologist sent me a report that is 19 pages long because it explains every test component. She was given these tests: DAS-2, WIAT-3, GORT-5, KeyMath 3, and I did the BASC-2, Conners 3, and BRIEF questionnaires.
This is my summary. Keep in mind that I have very limited knowledge of these tests. I tried to type up a concise summary. I am going Monday to meet with the psychologist once more, along with the exceptional children team.
Her IQ is average, but she has a significant discrepancy between her Verbal Ability and Spatial Ability and between her Nonverbal Reasoning Ability and Spatial Ability. So basically her Verbal Ability is Below Average, which makes a lot of things make sense. Her expressive vocabulary is below average which means she understands language better than she can communicate. Again, this sheds a lot of light on her struggles. She even seemed to process information slowly and became quiet and unresponsive when she didn't know an answer to a test question just like she does at home. She sort of spaces out and just stares. :( She scored much better on literal reading comprehension than inferential comprehension.
As for math..ugh...she did okay on numerical operations. She demonstrated accuracy in basic calculations, but is significantly slower than peers her age (need to work on fluency) and struggles to put that the calculations with problem solving and applications. I won't go into every detail and test because there are so many (the psychologist did an extra specialized math eval because of the huge discrepancy between her calculation and problem solving scores). She scored well below average on her problem solving ability and applied problem solving. Her data analysis was the lowest (classified as extremely low). Interestingly her "geometry" and "measurement" scores were pretty much the only math areas, other than basic calculations, that she scored average on. I'm hoping that will be a clue on how she learns best and how I can help her.
I had to fill out several behavioral forms. On the first she didn't meet any criteria for externalizing behaviors but did have concerns for: anxiety, depression, somatization, atypicality, and withdrawal. These are all internalizing behaviors and warrant follow up. I'm not entirely surprised but this. She saw a child psychiatrist a couple of years ago for anxiety, but that was very hard on her and made things worse. She has really improved over the last two years, but she still has a long way to go. Part of it is just her personality, but of course, I'll be watching her closely. I have to wonder if a lot of it is self-esteem and confidence issues because she struggles with verbal expression and other stuff, as noted above. The next form revealed problems with inattention, executive functioning, and peer relations. The last from revealed difficulty with shift (going from task to task and new situations), working memory (though she did fine on that on the IQ test), emotional control, and planning/organizing. All of those behaviors "should be monitored closely."
So we meet again on Monday where I will receive the psychologist's summary. Hopefully, they people at the meeting will put all this together for me, interpret it in real life language and help me come up with a plan. I want to know how it all fits together. I want to know how it all relates. The psychologist can't actually diagnose but so far she did tell me that Emma meets the criteria for ADHD-inattention and "Learning Disability in Math Problem Solving" but that's all she's told me so far. That's enough for now. That's good info and I look forward to more.
We have an appt with the behavioral ped in April to talk about the possibility of ADHD-inattention. Our insurance will not cover anything related to LD testing so this is what we have to go with for now. Another homeschool mom is helping me find a neuropsych to evaluate the possibility of a processing disorder, which we might have to pay for out of pocket, if we need it. I have to wonder if it's truly ADHD-inattention or some kind of processing disorder. Who knows?!?!?
Emma's going to VT, and it's going well.
I'm confused. Overwhelmed...
Thanks for listening!!
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I'm so sorry, my friend. I wish I could help. I'm praying.
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Well heck, I'll give it a go! :D
Math: Lial's algebra
Science: BJU Earth and Space
History: The Middle Ages using K12 HO as the spine and lots of books!
Literature: will probably be mostly books related to history studies with a couple of literature guides thrown in
Grammar: AG
Writing: WWS 2
Music: no idea
Art: no idea
Vocabulary: not sure, maybe VfCR book B
Logic: no idea
Latin: hah. We'll see. We have tried all year to get in to Latin, and it hasn't happened yet.
That's all I've got.
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Anna's almost done with Lial's pre algebra. I already bought a copy of Lial's algebra. We really like this curriculum!!!
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I'm a youth group leader at my (pretty large) church. We take the youth kids on lots of outings, and there is ALWAYS at least one male and one female adult (it's important that this couple not be married to each other for legal reasons). Our preference is one group leader for every 3-5 students (depending on age). We get one medical form update per year and a permission slip for every single trip. Parents are always given cell phone numbers for leaders. All youth leaders have background checks and training for the youth ministry.
Don't feel bad at all about asking questions! Youth leaders/pastors shouldn't have any problem with parents wanting to know how the youth program is run!
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Does your student do this independently or do you "teach" it. If you teach it what do you do exactly? Just read it with them? I need something that is not too much time for me. I'm trying to pick something for him to do next year...he will be 8th.
I love life science, and so does Anna so we always go over things together because it's fun. I write out her lessons for the week. She reads and does any worksheets/notes/outlines, and we go over each section together. Then there's experiments and projects of course.
Next year might look different because "space and earth science" isn't my favorite. We'll have to see how things go. :)
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Oh lawdy, this is gonna get heated ;-). I just want to point out that if a child is treated with a stimulant for adhd and truly doesnt need it; they would seem wired and off the wall. The stimulant calms a child with adhd and in some cases like my son, their issues aren't hyperactivity but impulsiveness and attention deficits. Those cant be observed and diagnosed casually as a bystander. I fought opinions such as yours that made me self conscious of medicating and thought I was just a horrible parent that obviously just didnt have it together. Medication and the comprehension and completion of his studies have changed our life in our household.
Yes, I could have written this post except I have a daughter on meds, and she did have hyperactivity in addition to the other symptoms.
x/p We are going to use TOG year 1, unit 4 for our last quarter! Some questions...
in Logic Stage & Middle Grade Challenges
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Thank you, Staci! Every tip helps!! I have the print version comimg so one copy of the SAP will be in that, correct? I could also print the questions for her from my DE if I wanted to.
I guess by "lesson plan" I mean a list, for her, of what she needs to read each week. Do you write that out for your daughter?