I confirmed the 2 hour number as an upper limit for the entire lesson. That includes meeting book, quizzes, the actual lesson and both sides of the homework sheet. That was only for a handful of lessons. There were many lessons that we completed in under an hour. Especially when Saxon introduces new multiplication facts. But if you do it properly then there will be some that take two hours. You simply can't learn math in 20 minutes a day. I have read so many people on this forum state that they would skip the meeting book, skip the first 35 lessons or so, and then two years later they would have to go back and repeat or at least supplement with another program. That confirms my thesis. That's the great thing about Saxon. You never need to supplement. It is all encompassing. And like I have observed, yes there are a few meeting book, quiz, lesson, homework combinations that take two hours but these are few and far between. Sometimes, the process of data gathering, plotting, and observation combined with the meeting book really does take that long. Most of the time we broke each lesson over two days. Day 1: homework sheet from the previous lesson, meeting book, (skip counting, clock, money, word problem, etc) and quiz. Day 2: lesson and homework sheet side A. If we saw a big lesson coming we would break it over a three day stretch instead of two. There is actually very little drill in Saxon. The only drill we did was the flashcards before a quiz. We certainly never did two hours of repeated drill. Sigh, there is always going to be sometimes when dc complain. We like Saxon because there is 90% review and 10% new material in each lesson. The review builds up confidence in dc so that they are encouraged and up to the task of learning a new topic. In my original post, I affirmed the value of Saxon. I never placed value on this or that approach or this curriculum or that curriculum. If dc is in the public school they are already doing more than 20 minutes a day and if you supplement then you are approaching the 1 hour mark already. I only stated that math cannot be properly learned on 20 minutes a day.

foobar foobar

One more thing, Sorry Spy Car, I disagree with you on this one.

The standard negative positions against Saxon I read fall into two camps: it takes too long, it doesn't teach the algorithms, and it doesn't teach the 'why' (or little picture first)? Put simply: there is no shortcut to learning math. If you really want to learn math it will take time. A number of people have stated that Singapore only takes 20-30 minutes and a K-3 Saxon lesson may take 1-2 hours. We have used Saxon exclusively and I can confirm that 2 hour number with my eldest who is now in 5/4 Math. Some of the lessons are indeed involved and require a great amount of time doing data gathering, graphing and interpretation. I am thinking about the states hi/lo temperature chart lesson in particular. But let me be clear: if your math lessons only last 20 minutes, your dc is not learning math. The reason saxon takes long is that the curriculum follows a standard progression that emphasizes comprehension. The K-3 lessons start with a physical manipulative to demonstrate a concept and then the abstractions are slowly made so that the child can manipulate the abstract symbols all the while being reminded of the physical manipulations they represent. If you don't see this, then you are shortening lessons, skipping material, and cheating dc out of an excellent math program. Many people also complain about the mindless repetition of subject matter. If you look carefully, the problems on homework sheets are always presented in a different manner so that the dc must approach the topic from a new angle and solve the problem with skills learned. I think many people skip problems and lessons and then complain that Saxon doesn't teach them to use the subject matter in different contexts. Further, repetition is the only way to really learn and internalize math. Remember all math is just a mental abstraction for some physical manipulation. The more practice you have in the abstraction world playing with the ideas, bouncing them against each other, and putting the together in different ways the better you will get. I have noted other people having to supplement Singapore with flash cards, word problems, etc. This is not necessary with Saxon because it so thorough. If you skip material then of course you will either have to go back and repeat or supplement. A number of our friends don't do the meeting book or skip over problems that they (the parent) find obvious. Remember you are not doing homeschooling for yourself but dc and just because you find it trivial doesn't mean dc will see it that way. Saxon is a total program, if you do it right, you will not need to supplement. If you have complaints or doubts about Saxon the first question you should ask is whether or not you are implementing it correctly. It works, it teaches subject matter thoroughly and then demands the student demonstrate the learned skill in multiple contexts. I have a PhD in physics and have taught professionally in both math and physics departments at the collegiate level. I think Saxon is an excellent program. Is it hard? You bet. Does it take a lot of time? Yes. Will DC complain all the way through K-3? Our first DS certainly did. But now in 5/4 he knows his basic math. Doing math gives him confidence because he really knows it.

Here is the link to the family camp at Catalina: http://www.campusbythesea.org/programs/family-programs

The family camp is run by Paul and Virginia Friesen of Home Improvement Ministries. We have attended family camp with the Friesens for the past 9 years and every year their programming exceeds our expectations. Their camp is much more than just doing activities together to provide constant distraction that you get in society anyways. More than just a vacation, it is a vacation to relationship. Read that last bit carefully 'a vacation to relationship'. They intentionally schedule the camp so that you get connected in a significant way to each other and your family. My wife and I attend their marriage conferences as well and they are over the top. You know how when you were in college and you had your favorite pizza place and then you go back 20 years later and you realize how awful the pizza is? Whenever we go to one of their marriage conferences we often think that we will be disappointed and we are remembering it better than what it was. But this is never the case. Paul and Virginia Friesen have written several books which are equally as good. You can find them on their website: http://www.himweb.org/ My wife and I have an incredible relationship and family. We credit this to listening under the tutelage of the Friesens. Hope that helps!!

Quite frankly, there are no shortcuts to learning math. The various math curricula are set up in stages so that a child can learn with physical manipulatives, use the written representation of the physical algorithm, and continue using the written representation of the physical algorithm. This process must be done slowly and repeated before the child can progress on to the next subject. Saxon excels at this process. Each lesson has some sort of physical manipulation and then the student notices some common characteristics that can be represented in a shortened fashion on paper. Then the student is asked to repeat that abstract memory mnemonic over the next few lessons and homework pages. You can skip saxon K, 1 and go straight into 4/5 but the child will never, let me repeat, will never be able to answer the question; why? Why do I carry the first digit to the next column, Why do I take one away from the left hand column and put a one in front of the right hand column? It will be wrote memorization. The best thing about homeschooling is that you can ensure that dc grasp those concepts and understand the why. Homeschooling is hard work, you cannot skip without making significant sacrifices. Dad of 3

I highly recommend Stan and Brenna Jones "How and When to Tell Your Kids About Sex". The book comes with a very tasteful 4 book companion series that you read to your children at increasing levels of maturity/age. They recommend giving your children scientifically accurate and age appropriate information. We have used the first two books with our boys. Dad of 3

Turbo Tax just looks for the file that you save from last year. Then it scans it for the easy stuff like ss#'s, addresses, birthdays, etc. It also grabs some other stuff like state tax returns from last year, your deductions from last year including any carry-over. Install Turbo Tax on the new computer and then either 1.turn on file sharing on the old computer so that you can transfer the file over the network or 2.use a 3.5 floppy (if the new computer is even equipped with one, gasp) or a USB stick (if the old computer has a USB port) to sneaker net the file. That's all you really need to do. Dad of 3