Finding learning disabilities in a gifted Aspie?

[Misty]

My 8yo daughter was just evaluated last week by a psychologist. She received the Asperger's diagnosis and her IQ test revealed a full scale IQ of 140. However, her achievment test placed her at around grade level in all subjects...

 

Math - 3rd grade

Reading - 4th grade

Spelling - 2nd grade

 

The psychologist indicated in the report that this is indicative of being learning disabled because her IQ is so high yet her academic achievment is average. However, the psych seemed to think that this isn't really the case and the only reason she isn't academically "advanced" is because she just isn't exposed to advanced materials. I always allow my children to work at whatever level they feel comfortable working in. My 11yo daughter is also gifted with Asperger's and she was at high school level for a couple of subjects before leaving elementary school. So I don't hold my children back when I see talents. I will tell you what natural talents I see in the 8yo... I see a great aptitude for math and drawing. She was multiplying in her head when she was four years old and she can still manipulate numbers quite easily. However, she drags through our math curriculum, barely paying attention. The psych seemed to think she is able to handle junior high math materials, but I don't see it. The pysch told me that she thinks the reason she drags through the lessons and has a hard time paying attention is because it's boring to her and she needs challenged more. She ruled out ADD on her. I just don't know. I really want to rule out any learning disabilities she may have. Her spelling is very poor and she still reverses some letters and numbers when writing. However, her reading is at 4th grade level. I would think this would be higher since she is a gifted Aspie, but it isn't. My 11yo gifted Aspie was reading at high school level by age 8. However, she is very verbally talented (possible hyperlexia) and does poorly in math and my 8yo is more talented with math (even though her acheivment scores did not reflect that).

 

What are the possible learning disabilities that she may have and where should I take her to be evaluated for an LD? Or do you think the psych is right and she just needs challenged more?

[Rebecca in VA]

I'll take a stab at this. My 12-year-old doesn't have Asperger's, but she has a few symptoms of it (she doesn't read people well, is a little rigid and rule-oriented in her thinking, and doesn't always understand subtleties). Like your daughter, she is good in math and art, is visually-oriented, etc. She's very, very smart and has an incredible memory for all kinds of details. She also has ADD.

 

When she took the WISC-IV and the Woodcock-Johnson tests two years ago, her learning problems showed up on the WISC-IV. Her short-term memory was the lowest of all her scores (it was 100), and there were a couple of other categories that dragged her down as well, though not as severely as short-term memory. Her arithmetic score was perfect, and her verbal scores were very high. The testing counselor said the "scatter" was definitely indicative of learning issues.

 

The Woodcock-Johnson scores were very high, many of them high school level or beyond (she was in fourth grade at the time and doing mostly fourth-grade work, except in math). Learning disabilities were NOT showing up here. They showed up very plainly on the WISC.

 

So it's quite possible that your psychologist is right. Our daughters may be the "reverse" of each other. My daughter has true learning issues (probably ADD-related) and they showed up on the WISC, and your daughter may have boredom or motivation issues that are keeping her from doing her best on her day-to-day schoolwork and holding her back from tackling higher-level material.

 

If your daughter were my child, I'd be challenging her a lot. I'd start giving her much more interesting material at a higher level. I'd make myself very much available to help her with anything she needs help with since she's so young, but I'd keep my expectations high. I'd also provide a lot of enrichment, especially in art.

[Misty]

Thank you... It's interesting.. I was reading the detailed report over again last night and I saw where the psychologist mentioned that during the testing, dd would drift off and not pay attention during the really easy portions of the test and she would actually get some of them wrong, but during the more difficult portions, she was right on top of it, and got them all right quickly. So maybe she does need more challenging material... However, I don't know how to get her there without skipping a bunch of foundational stuff!

 

Advice??

 

Thanks again!

[Rebecca in VA]

Well, I definitely wouldn't use the word "challenging" in front of her -- it might scare her off, LOL! I'd make her schoolwork more "interesting" and provide lots of "enrichment" (you can use those words if you have to explain why life's getting harder).

 

You'll have to decide if she's ready to skip grade levels in math and English. I'm not big on skipping levels, but I definitely skipped lessons at the beginnings of the books that were clearly all review. I had my daughter work through summers. Last year when I taught a Tapestry Year 1 group of girls who liked to read, I assigned challenging books that my daughter would *never* have read voluntarily but had to so that she wouldn't lose face in front of the other girls. She actually flourished with the challenging material and still speaks fondly of those books! (We also did cool activities such as plays and festivals.)

 

We do many, many outside activities -- too many, I think. She is almost always enrolled in an art-related class. She has done piano and ballet for years and is now moving into the competitive piano world. She does Junior Cotillion (she flourishes there, because she really does want to be socially acceptable, and she likes the hard-and-fast etiquette rules!). She participates in Bright Lights (a discipleship group for tweens). She sews, knits, and crochets. We travel a fair amount, which thrills her and enlarges her world. All of these give her enrichment, but they're not dreaded schoolwork.

 

So you don't have to skip levels to make her life more challenging and interesting, though you may want to. Hope this helps somewhat!

[Stacy in NJ]

Kids on the autism spectrum should not use the WISC to measure IQ. A very extensive, peer viewed study was done by a university in Canada(Montreal) that concluded that the WISC, while great for neuro-typical folks, failed to adequately measure IQ in both adults and children on the spectrum. It was a large study and was extensively peer reviewed. Another IQ test, the Raven Matrices, was shown to be a more accurate measure of fluid intelligence.

 

Treat results from the WISC with some suspicion.

 

Here's a link:http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/08/070803151245.htm

Edited March 14, 2009 by Stacy in NJ
SP

[angieathome]

I think the neuropsych people overlook the issue of "alertness" that is addressed by occupational therapists. My daughter much improved in all areas when she had occupational therapy and then learned her own signals of dropping alertness. Now that she is older, she initiates her own self-therapies. Please let me know if you want to know more.

[Handmaiden]

The psychologist indicated in the report that this is indicative of being learning disabled because her IQ is so high yet her academic achievment is average. However, the psych seemed to think that this isn't really the case and the only reason she isn't academically "advanced" is because she just isn't exposed to advanced materials. I always allow my children to work at whatever level they feel comfortable working in. My 11yo daughter is also gifted with Asperger's and she was at high school level for a couple of subjects before leaving elementary school. So I don't hold my children back when I see talents. I will tell you what natural talents I see in the 8yo... I see a great aptitude for math and drawing. She was multiplying in her head when she was four years old and she can still manipulate numbers quite easily. However, she drags through our math curriculum, barely paying attention. The psych seemed to think she is able to handle junior high math materials, but I don't see it. The pysch told me that she thinks the reason she drags through the lessons and has a hard time paying attention is because it's boring to her and she needs challenged more. She ruled out ADD on her. I just don't know. I really want to rule out any learning disabilities she may have. Her spelling is very poor and she still reverses some letters and numbers when writing. However, her reading is at 4th grade level. I would think this would be higher since she is a gifted Aspie, but it isn't. My 11yo gifted Aspie was reading at high school level by age 8. However, she is very verbally talented (possible hyperlexia) and does poorly in math and my 8yo is more talented with math (even though her acheivment scores did not reflect that).

 

You have just described my 11yo Aspie. He has tested gifted (passed EPGY math aptitude test) yet he sometimes struggles with math. He understands high level math concepts but messes up simple computations. He can read high school level texts, especially in science, yet is a poor speller and reluctant writer. Everyone comments on how "brilliant" he is or what a "genius" he is, and yet they don't see the areas where he struggles with the simplest things.

 

I recently came across a number of articles on gifted visual spatial learners and had a light bulb moment. If you're interested, here's one article and another site with many articles on VSL. I also highly recommend the book Upside Down Brilliance.