Has anyone used Analytical Grammar with an Aspie?

[MamaSheep]

If so, how'd it go? It seems like the structure of the program and focus on rules would be good with Aspies. How much writing is required? Aspie ds is very resistant to writing.

[Niffercoo]

I'm using Junior Analytical Grammar with my Aspie, and while it's still hard for him (as are all academics), it's the first grammar program that has worked for him at ALL. We will move into Analytical Grammar when we're finished, to avoid losing all that we've worked for.

 

What has worked especially well for Austin is that it has been very orderly and sequential. First he identified nouns. Then adjectives and articles, while STILL identifying nouns. And so on, and so on. There is a sequence and a routine and a pattern to parsing and diagramming the sentences.

 

In JAG, the only writing is labeling the parts of speech in the sentences, and then writing the diagrams. My Aspie isn't writing phobic, but I don't think it's much writing. I'm sure there is more in AG, but you could either break each assignment up into smaller assignments (we spend 2 days on each worksheet in JAG), or you could write the diagrams for him.

 

Hope this helps!

[MamaSheep]

Thank you, that does help. Grammar study here has been such a disaster that I didn't even include it in our homeschooling this year except for the occasional MadLib. My operating theory (ie excuse) is that maybe it'll be easier in a year when he's older and isn't in the habit of fighting over it for a while. Also, this gives us time to work on writing in general and make friends with words a bit more before we have to start throwing them on the therapy couch and analyzing them.

 

I'm thinking if I start next year or the following (7th or 8th grade) with Analytical grammar we can have some flexibility with the pacing and take breaks as needed, roughly based on their two or three year schedules.

[Misty]

I just started AG with my 11yo Aspie daughter a couple of weeks ago. She HATES it!!!! But only because it's hard for her right now. I allowed her to take a year off from grammar because I thought she was doing very well (and I really don't think it takes 12 years to learn grammar). Well, now she is acting like she's never heard of a pronoun.... I think the lessons are also too overwhelming for her. Each lesson (so far) has about 15 very long sentences and she is supposed to label about 3 or 4 different parts of speech in every sentence. Turns her into a hand-flapping 5yo every time.

 

She is extremely driven and focused on her obsessions and only her obsessions and she can't get herself to focus on school because she is thinking about her obsessions so much. That's really all it boils down to with her.... It's too hard to think about something besides her obsessions. (Her main obsession is writing.. She is hyperlexic and obsessively reads and writes books)

 

We will continue with it because I think she needs it, but I plan to break the lessons up for her so they are easier to handle from now on. The thing that drew me to AG was the schedule.. I loved the idea of not having to do grammar every single day, all year long. The only thing I didn't take into consideration was the fact that she is VERY routine-oriented.... So if we haven't done grammar for 2 months and I suddenly pull it out... She is going to freak! I wish I had thought of that sooner! Oh well... We will get through this... I just have to give her plenty of warning ahead of time, mark it on a calendar and show it to her several days in advance or something...

[ekarl2]

I hope you don't mind if I chime in. We've had quite a few customers who have Aspies who have done quite well with AG/JAG. We have sample pages on the site; I recommend you look at both Jr. AG and AG to compare them side-by-side. Sometimes, even though Jr. AG is for younger kids, it helps to start with Jr. AG. AG is written at about a 6th grade reading level and the type is much smaller.

 

Also, I HIGHLY recommend you break the lessons apart, even if you do just a sentence or two a day. You certainly don't want to frustrate your child! You can use the same strategy with the Review and Reinforcement worksheets that you do between the seasons of AG. Instead of doing one worksheet every two weeks, break the worksheet up so that you're working on it FOR two weeks, a little at a time. That way you're still in the routine of doing grammar, but it's not taking up so much of your day. The important thing is not to take a break for any length of time. The spiral nature of the program means that your need to keep moving forward, even if it is at a snail's pace.

 

Here is a link (http://www.homeschoolopoly.com/aboutus.htm) to a lady who has an Aspie who used AG. She may have some insight/tips for you as well.

 

Blessings,

[Niffercoo]

Erin, since you hopped into the thread, can I ask for your recommendation on how we approach Analytical Grammar next year with my Aspie.

 

He is a 6th grader, but academically he struggles. We've been doing JAG for 5th and 6th grade. We do grammar 2 days per week, spreading out each exercise over the 2 days. We will finish JAG this year, and he has done quite well with it. I am afraid of losing ground, so I think I want to move into AG next year for 7th grade.

 

Do you think I should continue to spread out the lessons like I've been doing? Will 2 days per week be enough for AG, or do I need to do it 4 days (we do a 4 day week, with the 5th day being fine arts)? Or should we do the 10 week season, then spread out the reinforcement sheets, instead of spreading out the lessons?

 

Feel free to PM me if you're not allowed to give detailed advice on the boards. It doesn't look like I'll be making it to convention this year, otherwise I'd ask you there!

[ekarl2]

As far as I know, I'm allowed to answer direct questions about our product; I don't think that's considered sales. I try to be very careful by not offering any specific advice about our program unless asked (let me know, moderators, if I'm in error here).

 

I would agree that you should go into AG. The first season will be a rehash of Jr. AG, so although the reading level is more challenging and the exercises are longer, the actual concepts will be familiar. I think that if you take each unit and spread it out over 2 weeks (2 days a week or all four, that's up to you), you'll still have about 16 weeks left of 7th grade to do the R&R worksheets, one per week. I think that'll work best. It's flexible enough, though, that you can speed it up or slow it down as you need to.

[Niffercoo]

Thanks so much for the advice, Erin!! Once I get it in my hands, I'll probably be able to better tell if it's going to need 4 days a week, or if we can continue with 2 days. I'd rather spread it out and do shorter, more frequent time periods than to frustrate him. And 2 weeks for each unit would be very manageable!

 

Once we're using it next year, I'll be sure to post about my experiences, since there don't seem to be many replies from folks who've used AG with Aspies.

[Misty]

Erin, thank you for chiming in! Your input is very helpful to me as well. I am determined to make AG work for us because I do think it is a wonderful program. I'm definitely going to break the lessons up from now on since my daughter has a hard time focusing and gets overwhelmed easily.

 

Thanks agian!

[ekarl2]

You're very welcome! Please let me know if you ever have any questions. You can always join our YahooGroup, too. It's called analyticalgrammar (all one word).

 

blessings,

[MamaSheep]

Thanks everyone for your input! I am more and more convinced that AG is the way to go with ds for grammar. Last year I briefly showed him how to do some very basic diagramming with just subject, verb and a couple of articles and adjectives, and he seemed to quite enjoy that. I especially like the structure and flexibility of the AG (at least from what I've seen on the web site) and had thought that it looked like something we could adjust the pace of as needed, which can be important around here. I also like that AG doesn't seem to bury you in busywork or make you review and review and review the same concept for 12 years. Ds has a very refined built-in busywork detector. As long as what we do has an identifiable purpose I can usually get him to do it these days without too much caterwauling, but if he doesn't see the point, ain't no way, bub. And y'know, I can kinda respect that. ;)

 

Now I just have to hope work picks up a bit for dh so I can afford all the fancy schmancy curriculum materials I want for next year. Otherwise I'm going to have to make some hard choices about what hits the chopping block. :(

 

ETA: Erin, I don't suppose there are any plans to break AG apart and sell each season separately so I don't have to buy all of it at once?

Edited March 6, 2009 by MamaSheep

[ekarl2]

 

ETA: Erin, I don't suppose there are any plans to break AG apart and sell each season separately so I don't have to buy all of it at once?

 

Actually, it started that way about 10 years ago. BUT, since one of it's purposes is to turn into a grammar notebook at the end, we decided it was much better to sell the whole thing at once. Also, although it would be less expensive as far as when the expense hits, it would make the program more expensive overall to sell it that way. The expensive parts are the spiral binding and laminating; you'd be tripling the cost of that.

 

 

On another note, check back on our web site in a few weeks; we're rolling out a completely re-vamped site with professionally shot videos, much easier navigation, etc. We're REALLY excited!

[MamaSheep]

Actually, it started that way about 10 years ago. BUT, since one of it's purposes is to turn into a grammar notebook at the end, we decided it was much better to sell the whole thing at once. Also, although it would be less expensive as far as when the expense hits, it would make the program more expensive overall to sell it that way. The expensive parts are the spiral binding and laminating; you'd be tripling the cost of that.

 

 

On another note, check back on our web site in a few weeks; we're rolling out a completely re-vamped site with professionally shot videos, much easier navigation, etc. We're REALLY excited!

 

Thanks for answering. I do definitely see your point about the binding expense, and I agree that having it all together as a single reference resource at the end is really handy.

 

Unfortunately, the "when the expense hits" factor is likely to be an issue this year, and while I like the idea of starting up with AG this fall (7th grade) and having the flexibility of extending it over a longer period of time if necessary (or of just being done with it earlier in ds's schooling career), I'm not sure it'll be feasible in this year's budget so I might have to put it off another year. It's discouraging to feel that I can't get this year's materials just because I can't yet afford the materials we'll need next year and the year after that in addition, and it's not sold separately.

 

I don't suppose you'd consider selling the different seasons as separate "packets" of unbound, hole-punched sheets that students could put into a binder and collect until they had the whole resource under one cover. This would give students the option of adding pages with personal notes, or labeled dividers for the different sections as well. Then families could choose whether to leave it in a binder or take it down to the copy shop and have it spiral bound themselves. You could still sell it at the same price, but have a higher profit margin by reducing the binding costs on your end (though I'll be honest and say I really don't know how the cost of hole punching and shrink-wrapping compares with the price of laminating and coil binding). You could even add a nice custom binder to your product list.

 

I'm sorry to be a pain. I'm just trying to figure out how to have my cake and eat it too...lol. And since you were here I thought I'd go ahead and toss out some of my concerns for your consideration.

 

You must be so excited about your new web site! My husband is a web design guy and saw me watching the videos on your site a few weeks back. He commented negatively about the site and the videos, but I told him to lay off because a) it's a lot more information than many homeschool publishers offer, even if it's presented in an informal, non-professional format; b) it's not as if you're a wealthy publishing conglomerate, you're a small home business and you've got to use the resources available to you; and c) you teach grammar, not web design and I was more concerned with your skill in parsing sentences and structuring lessons than I was with your skill in html syntax. And since he does better with code than with English, he had to defer to me there...lol. But it'll be fun to take him back to the new site when it's up so he can see the improvements.

 

Hopefully he'll get more projects this year from his clients than anticipated and my budget will expand. Otherwise, maybe I can find a used copy of the teacher's manual and only need to buy the student book...or something. It'll work out. Anyway, thanks for all your helpful input. :)

[ekarl2]

Thanks for the ideas; we'll keep them in mind. Right now, though, I've got a storage unit filled with 100s of books already printed and ready to go for this summer, so that ship has sailed!

 

If you or anyone you know if planning on attending a convention we'll be at this year ... we offer free shipping and a 10% discount on convention purchases if you attend our workshop. Off the top of my head, I know we'll be at Long Beach, CA; Arlington, TX; Puyallup, WA; Richmond, VA; Winston Salem, NC; Orlando, FL; East Ridge, TN; Cincinnati, OH; St. Paul, MN; and the two Atlanta, GA, conventions.

[MamaSheep]

Thanks for the ideas; we'll keep them in mind. Right now, though, I've got a storage unit filled with 100s of books already printed and ready to go for this summer, so that ship has sailed!

 

If you or anyone you know if planning on attending a convention we'll be at this year ... we offer free shipping and a 10% discount on convention purchases if you attend our workshop. Off the top of my head, I know we'll be at Long Beach, CA; Arlington, TX; Puyallup, WA; Richmond, VA; Winston Salem, NC; Orlando, FL; East Ridge, TN; Cincinnati, OH; St. Paul, MN; and the two Atlanta, GA, conventions.

 

I understand. I'm afraid those conventions are out of my travel radius, but maybe someone I know is going. Thanks for letting me pelt you with suggestions. I'll keep my fingers crossed for good business for us this summer so I can contribute to your business this fall. :)