WWE users and CW users: comparison please?

[Annabel Lee]

I need to narrow down which program to use for next year. My youngest will use WWE 1 for sure, but my older son will be in 3rd grade (the age CW suggests starting Homer A on their site). I've read so many great reviews here from CW users who've used it for a long time and have seen the results produced in their children's writing abilities. Can some of you who've used WWE awhile share similar success stories?

 

I'm drawn to CW not only for where it goes long-term (I love the aspect of learning a different step of the progymnasmata each year in the later years), but also b/c of the results I hear about here. I need to hear some WWE reviews, from people who've used it longer. I'd like to see that it yields those kind of results.

 

Thanks in advance!

[dcjlkplus3]

We have only been using WWE for about half a year so far in second grade. I really like it. We are using level 2.

One thing I like about it is the help it has given us in narrations. There are listening comprehension questions and then a few with the express purpose of helping to "summerize the basic narrative thread". This has helped me lot with helping my daughter to "get" narrations (we have been trying to do narrations since we started 1st grade).

I really like how (after 16 weeks) dictation is coming along also.

Since the program is only a year old (as well as only being out for the grammar stage thus far) it is hard to determine long term results.

I do know that I will be using it for 3rd and 4th grades and really hoping the logic stage book (Writing with Skill?)and any workbooks are ready in 2-1/2 years when we are ready to start 5th grade.

[plimsoll]

We started CW Aesop in 4th grade (9yo). I'm not sure my son would have done as well with it if we had started earlier. Everybody's different, but this is my experience.

[Annabel Lee]

Ya, I'm using WWE 2 right now for him in 2nd - we're about halfway through; and even if I chose the CW direction I don't know if I'd start him in 3rd or 4th, but I do need to decide. What I'm looking ahead to is the long-term direction each takes. I've read that CW starts progym exercises earlier - around middle school, and that WWE saves the progym stuff for hs - each have their reasons but I'm still stuck. Can anyone give a good comparison of WWE to CW - the differences?

 

Ugh. I wonder what CW's return policy is. Maybe if it's good, I'll just order it to preview. This is becoming a pattern w/ me - narrowing things down to 2 choices and having to *see* both before deciding.

 

Any help appreciated. Thanks! :)

[HiddenJewel]

I need to narrow down which program to use for next year. My youngest will use WWE 1 for sure, but my older son will be in 3rd grade (the age CW suggests starting Homer A on their site). I've read so many great reviews here from CW users who've used it for a long time and have seen the results produced in their children's writing abilities. Can some of you who've used WWE awhile share similar success stories?

 

I'm drawn to CW not only for where it goes long-term (I love the aspect of learning a different step of the progymnasmata each year in the later years), but also b/c of the results I hear about here. I need to hear some WWE reviews, from people who've used it longer. I'd like to see that it yields those kind of results.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

3rd grade is the suggested age for CW Aesop A, not Homer. Homer could be pretty overwhelming for a 3rd grader.

[HiddenJewel]

Ya, I'm using WWE 2 right now for him in 2nd - we're about halfway through; and even if I chose the CW direction I don't know if I'd start him in 3rd or 4th, but I do need to decide. What I'm looking ahead to is the long-term direction each takes. I've read that CW starts progym exercises earlier - around middle school, and that WWE saves the progym stuff for hs - each have their reasons but I'm still stuck. Can anyone give a good comparison of WWE to CW - the differences?

 

Ugh. I wonder what CW's return policy is. Maybe if it's good, I'll just order it to preview. This is becoming a pattern w/ me - narrowing things down to 2 choices and having to *see* both before deciding.

 

Any help appreciated. Thanks! :)

 

Have you looked at the CW samples online? There should be at a couple weeks of lessons shown.

[siloam]

I am using both.

 

WWE teaches dictation and narration well. Those are skills used in CW, so it is good to have them down. In essence WWE and FLL are building a foundation for CW here.

 

I must admit upfront that I haven't read all of my WWE book. I just read what I needed for now and stopped, so I can't compare it to CW.

 

Now for CW. First of all I recommend starting Aesop in 4th grade. Why? Because there is only 18 weeks of Aesop A and 18 weeks of Aesop B, so while you CAN start Aesop A in 3rd grade you only have half a year. Then the next year you only have half a year for 4th as well. Homer is meaty I wouldn't start it before 5th grade.

 

Back to Aesop. It will have the child doing outlines of the models, look up words in a dictionary, dictation/copywork from the models, a high volume of grammar (I would recommend some familiarity with grammar before starting CW. It isn't hard work, just a lot of it. I think it would overwhelm a student new to grammar). The rewrites require the child learning to work with quotations and add descriptive detail. In Aesop B it also adds in optional diagramming.

 

Homer expects a certain level of mastery with grammar. While it builds skills in layers (so don't be overwhelmed) by the end of Homer A a child is using a thesaurus, changing noun and verb tense, changing noun and verbs from singular to plural, rewriting sentences into all the sentence forms, doing summaries of each scene of a narrative, including identifying who, what, when, where, why for each scene, discovering author emphasis, then rewriting in several different formats. There is a lot of good stuff going on in Homer, so you don't want to overwhelm the child by doing it too early.

 

Heather

 

 

[Annabel Lee]

Whoops, I meant to say Aesop A, not Homer - I must have had a brain lapse, sorry about that. :D

 

I am using both.

 

WWE teaches dictation and narration well. Those are skills used in CW, so it is good to have them down. In essence WWE and FLL are building a foundation for CW here.

 

Here is what I am wondering though: Certainly WWE would be building a foundation for future WWE levels (even ones that are already published but that I don't have), so do WWE and CW veer off in different directions, or are they quite similar when you strip them down to methods and outcome goals for the child?

 

I must admit upfront that I haven't read all of my WWE book. I just read what I needed for now and stopped, so I can't compare it to CW.

 

Now for CW. First of all I recommend starting Aesop in 4th grade. Why? Because there is only 18 weeks of Aesop A and 18 weeks of Aesop B, so while you CAN start Aesop A in 3rd grade you only have half a year. Then the next year you only have half a year for 4th as well. Homer is meaty I wouldn't start it before 5th grade.

 

From the CW site, I got the idea that Aesop A is to take one whole year and Aesop B is to do that also - using the student's history, sci., or other passage(s) to practice the previous week's Aesop lesson on. This would double it from an 18 wk. course to a 36 wk. course. I wish I could remember if this was rec'd directly by CW or if it was just an idea posted on the CW boards.

 

Back to Aesop. It will have the child doing outlines of the models, look up words in a dictionary, dictation/copywork from the models, a high volume of grammar (I would recommend some familiarity with grammar before starting CW. It isn't hard work, just a lot of it. I think it would overwhelm a student new to grammar). The rewrites require the child learning to work with quotations and add descriptive detail. In Aesop B it also adds in optional diagramming.

 

This (in your paragraphs above and below) sound like a direction I really like. I wonder how this differs, if at all, from where WWE is headed. I do need to look at both sites and my WWE book some more.

 

Homer expects a certain level of mastery with grammar. While it builds skills in layers (so don't be overwhelmed) by the end of Homer A a child is using a thesaurus, changing noun and verb tense, changing noun and verbs from singular to plural, rewriting sentences into all the sentence forms, doing summaries of each scene of a narrative, including identifying who, what, when, where, why for each scene, discovering author emphasis, then rewriting in several different formats. There is a lot of good stuff going on in Homer, so you don't want to overwhelm the child by doing it too early.

 

Heather

 

 

 

 

Thanks for all the info, Heather. I don't know how to do split quotes so I just wrote my words inside your quote - hopefully it will pick up the color difference! This is something I've asked about before, and I think you helped me before too, but it keeps coming up for me. If the 2 programs are similar enough, then I don't think I would change something that isn't broken, KWIM? I do hear many great reviews about CW, like yours, that make me interested in knowing more about it. I would love to be able to pin down the differences between the 2 before leaving one for the other. I guess I've got my research cut out and defined for me... just have to get to it instead of spending time here! lol Note to self: have that done w/in 2 weeks max. :D

Edited February 27, 2009 by Annabel Lee
sp. error

[Mallory]

WWE has only been out for about a year, so you aren't going to hear any long term reviews. And only 1st - 4th grade are done, so even if some one has quickly gone through all of the steps, it isn't really a long term program right now. It is all narration and dictation. That's it.

 

So right now you would need a middle school and high school plan of something else anyway.

 

I think that if any age kid isn't capable of doing the WWE level 4 easily, then they should start there. It will help with whatever writing program you go to.

[siloam]

Thanks for all the info, Heather. I don't know how to do split quotes so I just wrote my words inside your quote - hopefully it will pick up the color difference! This is something I've asked about before, and I think you helped me before too, but it keeps coming up for me. If the 2 programs are similar enough, then I don't think I would change something that isn't broken, KWIM? I do hear many great reviews about CW, like yours, that make me interested in knowing more about it. I would love to be able to pin down the differences between the 2 before leaving one for the other. I guess I've got my research cut out and defined for me... just have to get to it instead of spending time here! lol Note to self: have that done w/in 2 weeks max. :D

 

To do quotes you put brackets [] around the words {quote} where you start and {/quote} where you want it to end. I did it in the hard brackets because if I use the right ones it they will just disappear and everything in between will be quoted. :D

 

I hear you. I really need to finish reading WWE, too. I know SWB recommends doing the outlining later than CW starts it. I know both are big on grammar.

 

Yes on the Aesop thing, if you are up to it you can add your own models. In fact CW was originally just a how to book like WWE, and then another gal who uses CW made the workbooks and the teacher's manual. If you don't want to find your own models then 4th grade would be the best time to start because you can rely totally on the workbooks.

 

Yep that is about where I am with Algebra. I just have to get it in hand and see for myself. Sometimes there is no other choice.

 

Heather