Confused about AoPs. Please point me in the right direction.

[Samm]

Can somebody familiar with AoPS math please help me?  I'm very confused.  ? I've tried reading the website, calling AoPS etc.  So here's my questions:  According to their diagnostic tests for online courses, I have student who is ready for Prealgebra 2, and another who is ready for Intro to Algebra I.    Since I hope we can do some math work over the summer on our own, I want to buy the right math textbooks now.  I have actually looked through most of the AoPs texts and like them well enough over Saxon which we have.

What is the right textbook for the Prealgebra 2 class?  Is it Prealgebra?

What is the right textbook for the Introduction to Algebra I class? Is it Introduction to Algebra?  When, if ever does a student, use the Intermediate Algebra book?

Why should buy the online version of book at all? Does it let you read it easily on iOS devices?

I happen to live sort of near one of the cities that AoPS has face-to-face (F2F) classes.  What is the advantage in F2F AoPS?  I read that all the best advantages of online had to do with not hampering all other students from working and thinking just because one student is speaking a response as in a live classroom?

Does your student who's liked AoPS feel the experience would've been better if they were in a group setting (whether virtual or F2F class)?  What's wrong with just doing the textbook or online lessons on Alcumus?

I didn't think I was obtuse until I tried to match up all their products.  Also, the brick and mortar AoPS school wants the kids to do placement testing right away even though their classes woudn't start for another 3-4 months.  I know B&M courses might fill up, but the downside is that it doesn't make much sense to me to take a placement test in something you're actively trying to work on 4 months early.  I'm not going do it until we're ready and if the classes are full then I guess too bad, no B&M classes for us.  Others encountered pressure for early testing at AoPS?

 

[Kiara.I]

We haven't done AoPS yet, but I've looked at the website several times and might be able to help with a couple of the questions.

The PreAlgebra 2 class uses the PreAlgebra textbook, per this description:  https://artofproblemsolving.com/school/course/catalog/prealgebra2

The Introduction to Algebra A class and the Introduction to Algebra B class both use the Introduction to Algebra textbook.  The Intermediate Algebra textbook is used for the Intermediate Algebra course, recommended for after Introduction to Geometry.  You might find that the recommendation pages for the courses and for the textbooks provide a helpful flow sequence for you.

Course map (for the online courses, and probably the in-person classes)

Curriculum map for textbooks 

I don't think there's anything wrong with doing the textbooks without an online class.  That's what I intend to do with mine when we get there.  If your student works better for others than for you, or if you feel you can't keep up with the math at a particular level, then an online course (or in-person, naturally) could be helpful.  I had the impression that Alcumus wasn't a course, but more like problem sets, so it wouldn't replace the textbooks.  But I haven't explored it at all yet.

[SoCal_Bear]

Could you back up and given your students' math background and ages first? That would be really key to what advice you will be given.

I have access to both the B&M and online courses but I have opted not to do either. I don't like the format of AOPS online courses. I won't pay the $$$ for in-person courses when he is well able to use the textbooks. He is working through the PA book at his own pace. The book is written to the student. If your student has not been exposed to a discovery approach, this may be frustrating. Also my son had some frustration with not getting every problem correct the first time through. AOPS is designed for students to have to struggle with math. Since we have no timeline as to when he needs to finish, it's been pretty relaxed for him. 

[Jackie]

Kiara already gave good answers to the flow of the books.

As for online and in person classes, different students react better to different methods. I have a super social kid, who generally thrives off learning in a group, which often makes live online classes or in person classes the best choice. Flip side is that she learns math in very non-linear and non-traditional ways, which makes structured math classes of any sort unlikely to be a good fit for her. She has started in on the Intro to Algebra book, watched all the AOPS PreAlgebra videos online, and we’ll continue on with math at home at her pace.

[Samm]

10 hours ago, calbear said:

Could you back up and given your students' math background and ages first? That would be really key to what advice you will be given.

I have access to both the B&M and online courses but I have opted not to do either. I don't like the format of AOPS online courses. I won't pay the $$$ for in-person courses when he is well able to use the textbooks. He is working through the PA book at his own pace. The book is written to the student. If your student has not been exposed to a discovery approach, this may be frustrating. Also my son had some frustration with not getting every problem correct the first time through. AOPS is designed for students to have to struggle with math. Since we have no timeline as to when he needs to finish, it's been pretty relaxed for him. 

 

Their ages are young 12 and old 13.  12yo has worked through Saxon Course 2.  13yo has worked through most of Saxon Alg I.  I don't like the procedural aspect of Saxon anymore.  Also, Saxon Alg I topics are strangely lumped together  (e.g. interquartile ranges thrown into the middle of plotting inequalities).  Neither kid is fan of Saxon anymore.

The AOPS online class says it's grading is 40% Alcumus, but what does that mean?  If Alcumus adapts to every students strengths, does that mean that every child have a different standard?  I lile the AOPS curriculum fine, but the whole academy and transcripting and coursework portion makes me scratch my head.

[SoCal_Bear]

Well, it depends on whether or not you feel you need to have a class. AOPS is perfectly fine to do on your own. If you haven't done AOPS before, I would not suggest you start in the middle of a level. I would start your younger one in Pre-A at the beginning, and your older one at Algebra at the beginning. Even if similiar topics are covered, how they are covered and the level of depth they are covered at is vastly different than Saxon or other math curricula. 'm thinking in particular Ch. 2 in PA on exponents takes exponents to a level at which the vast majority of PA students never go. I think it will also makes things smoother in making the jump from Saxon to AOPS which are vastly different in approach. It can be a big shocker to kids to encounter a math currciulum that is intentionally meant to frustrate and stump you and for it not to be completely obvious how to solve something. I'm thinking that being able to go at your own pace and finding a workable rythym without external pressure of other students would make it more palatable in the long run.

So what I do is that my son works through the assigned section and works the text problems in the section. I use larger post it pad paper (the kind with lines) to cover up the worked solutions which appear right after the problems. Then he goes over the solutions compared to what he came up with and self-corrects his work. The text is pretty dense reading. Then he works the end of the section problems. Generally speaking that is one day's work for him. If the section was really long with lots of text problems, he will do the end of the section problems the next day. Other families always split reading & text problems and section problems into two days. When my son gets to the end of the chapter, we usually plan for him to work about 45 minutes per day until he finishes the review and challenge problems. 

He generally watches the AOPS videos after he completes his work. Alcumus is practice to support the curriculum. It's not a substitute for the curriculum. You would use that get more problems. Green bar means pass and blue bar means mastery. Hope this helps.

[Samm]

2 hours ago, calbear said:

Well, it depends on whether or not you feel you need to have a class. AOPS is perfectly fine to do on your own. If you haven't done AOPS before, I would not suggest you start in the middle of a level. I would start your younger one in Pre-A at the beginning, and your older one at Algebra at the beginning. Even if similiar topics are covered, how they are covered and the level of depth they are covered at is vastly different than Saxon or other math curricula. 'm thinking in particular Ch. 2 in PA on exponents takes exponents to a level at which the vast majority of PA students never go. I think it will also makes things smoother in making the jump from Saxon to AOPS which are vastly different in approach. It can be a big shocker to kids to encounter a math currciulum that is intentionally meant to frustrate and stump you and for it not to be completely obvious how to solve something. I'm thinking that being able to go at your own pace and finding a workable rythym without external pressure of other students would make it more palatable in the long run.

So what I do is that my son works through the assigned section and works the text problems in the section. I use larger post it pad paper (the kind with lines) to cover up the worked solutions which appear right after the problems. Then he goes over the solutions compared to what he came up with and self-corrects his work. The text is pretty dense reading. Then he works the end of the section problems. Generally speaking that is one day's work for him. If the section was really long with lots of text problems, he will do the end of the section problems the next day. Other families always split reading & text problems and section problems into two days. When my son gets to the end of the chapter, we usually plan for him to work about 45 minutes per day until he finishes the review and challenge problems. 

He generally watches the AOPS videos after he completes his work. Alcumus is practice to support the curriculum. It's not a substitute for the curriculum. You would use that get more problems. Green bar means pass and blue bar means mastery. Hope this helps.

 

Thanks.  Long run is what we're after.  How do I access the videos?  Is it part of the online text?  (Speaking of online text, if you have multiple children and wanted them all to use the online AOPS books you buy, should you register at AOPS with just one family login name?  It sort of forces me to type in a login name once I try to buy online text.  If not doing the online class, is the identifier useful for anything else?  I figure for the online class, each student needs their own login.

[Samm]

2 hours ago, calbear said:

Well, it depends on whether or not you feel you need to have a class. AOPS is perfectly fine to do on your own. If you haven't done AOPS before, I would not suggest you start in the middle of a level. I would start your younger one in Pre-A at the beginning, and your older one at Algebra at the beginning. Even if similiar topics are covered, how they are covered and the level of depth they are covered at is vastly different than Saxon or other math curricula. 'm thinking in particular Ch. 2 in PA on exponents takes exponents to a level at which the vast majority of PA students never go. I think it will also makes things smoother in making the jump from Saxon to AOPS which are vastly different in approach. It can be a big shocker to kids to encounter a math currciulum that is intentionally meant to frustrate and stump you and for it not to be completely obvious how to solve something. I'm thinking that being able to go at your own pace and finding a workable rythym without external pressure of other students would make it more palatable in the long run.

So what I do is that my son works through the assigned section and works the text problems in the section. I use larger post it pad paper (the kind with lines) to cover up the worked solutions which appear right after the problems. Then he goes over the solutions compared to what he came up with and self-corrects his work. The text is pretty dense reading. Then he works the end of the section problems. Generally speaking that is one day's work for him. If the section was really long with lots of text problems, he will do the end of the section problems the next day. Other families always split reading & text problems and section problems into two days. When my son gets to the end of the chapter, we usually plan for him to work about 45 minutes per day until he finishes the review and challenge problems. 

He generally watches the AOPS videos after he completes his work. Alcumus is practice to support the curriculum. It's not a substitute for the curriculum. You would use that get more problems. Green bar means pass and blue bar means mastery. Hope this helps.

 

Thanks.  Long run is what we're after.  May I ask, how do I access the videos?  Is it part of the online text?  (Speaking of online text, if you have multiple children and wanted them all to use the online AOPS books you buy, one after another, should you register at AOPS with just one family login name?  It sort of forces me to type in a login name once I try to buy online text.  If not doing the online class, is the identifier useful for anything else?  I figure for actual online classes, each student needs their own login.

[SoCal_Bear]

Honestly, my bias is physical books. Studies have shown that students retain what they read in physical books more than online textbooks. I also don't like using screens more than necessary as it's hard on the eyes in the long run and people generally don't practice good eye hygiene (not blinking and not changing perspective) which affects their vision in the long run. We already have an issue with myopia in our family, so I need to do what I can to not make things worse. 

The text is so dense and meaty that it helps to be able to flip back and forth easily while works. We also will use post-it to flag pages that reference back if he needs to reference back. 

You are supposed to set up a separate Alcumus account for each student. AOPS will send you as the parent a form to scan or fax back to them authorizing an account to be opened for your minor child.

Alcumus and videos are free. Videos can be found here: https://artofproblemsolving.com/videos/prealgebra
 

[Samm]

Thanks to everyone, esp calbear  = fountain (of knowledge)!   I believe in paper text too.  I meant that I want to buy the online text as an add-on for those times when the book is just too bulky to carry)

We're not exactly early to the game in AOPS but the kids had used Singapore and New Dimensions prior to this academic year's ill-fated switch to Saxon.  But overall, it's still not a race for us.

If anyone else has any general AOPS usage tips, we'd be all ears.