Converting a Gas FP? And, Solar Well Pumps?

[MommyLiberty5013]

We're on an acerage. Our home has one fireplace run on LP. How tough is it to convert the LP FP to a wood burning FP with one of those highly efficient inserts?

 

The house also has a well. The well has a pump run on AC electricity, and it feeds a water tank in our basement. Have any of you added a solar well pump to an existing pump system as backup? I am asking because if/when the power goes out, we have no way to draw up water from the well. Our short-term solutions are many jugs of water in our basement storage room and worse care scenario, boiled water from the creek.

 

I found this company today called Rural Pump Services or something like that name, but they have a variety of pumps and components one can buy as a kit to make the solar backup a reality. I really want to do something like this, and the idea of having it all as one kit with proper phone support and instructions makes me glad. They are highly rated too.

 

Thoughts to share?

 

 

[RegGuheert]

I looked long and hard at various options for pumping water from our well when we first added solar nearly 20 years ago. After much deliberation, I decided the best thing to do was to keep our existing AC well pump and make three changes above ground to provide for pumping from solar power.

 

First of all, the whys:

 

- AC pumps are extremely reliable. I'm glad I didn't pull our pump, as that is an expensive thing to do and that little pump has served flawlessly for nearly 25 years now.

- DC pumps are not as reliable as AC pumps. There are two types: with brushes and without. The ones with brushes need to be pulled periodically to have the brushes replaced. No thanks. The ones without brushes are really synchronous (AC) machines with an electronic comutator. I nearly purchased the latter, but after contacting someone on the internet who had installed one, he told me "Don't do it!" because his had been destroyed by lightning and had to be replaced a couple of time within the span of a few years. He concluded that having electronics down in the well was not a good idea.

- The well pump, while a bit difficult to drive from the surface, did not really use all that much electricity, so it was cheaper to figure out how to run it than to replace it.

 

Now for the whats:

 

- I added an 120V/240V autotransformer between the pressure switch and the pump. This change allows us to run our pump from a 120VAC source, but it is still fed by 240VAC down the well, minimizing voltage drop down the well. As such, our well can be run from a single 120VAC inverter, if needed. While I was installing two inverters which could produce 240VAC, I wanted to be able to run from a single inverter in case one failed. Sure enough, our house was hit by lightning and one inverter failed, but I was still able to run the pump.

- I replaced the tiny 10-gallon pressure tank the builder had installed with two 46-gallon tanks. (If I had it to do over, I would have put in a single 120-gallon tank.). Simply put, the startup of the well pump is what often does the most damage. It causes the pump and pipe to twist in the borehole and eventually will wear through the insulation on the wires running down into the well. I reduced the number of start-stop cycles by a factor of ten. Also, the startup is the hard part for an AC machine. Once the well pump is started, it is fairly easy to run.

- I replaced the shower heads with very low-flow units that are clogproof yet still give a great shower. We also have extremely water-efficient appliances.

 

Finally, here are some details on our well and pump:

 

- Our pump is a 1/2-HP unit. IIRC, it draws about 20A from 240VAC during startup and about 4A while running. With the autotransformer, it draws about 40A from 120VAC during startup and about 8A while running. Even though it momentarily draws 40A, I have it wired up to a single 20A breaker which has never blown in the nearly 20 years I have had the autotransformer in place.

- Our well is about 250-feet deep and can provide about 10 GPM continuously. I have tested this by using it to fill our pool one time. It pumped about 8 GPM continuously for three full days, during which time the pump never cut off.

- We provide all of our electricity from solar power, but we are now grid-tied. As such, we have a generator and some inverters which can provide power from our electric car in case of an emergency. When we have an outage, I typically will run the generator briefly to pump the well and charge the car, then it stays off most of the time. But I can run the well pump from an inverter, if needed.

 

If/when we ever need to replace our well pump, we will replace it with another AC unit, but I will move to a lower-power motor. I understand that the newer pumps are more efficient and we will be able to get the similar performance from either a 1/3 HP or even a 1/4 HP pump.

 

Good luck with your decision on how to best pump water in an emergency!

[MommyLiberty5013]

I looked long and hard at various options for pumping water from our well when we first added solar nearly 20 years ago. After much deliberation, I decided the best thing to do was to keep our existing AC well pump and make three changes above ground to provide for pumping from solar power.

 

First of all, the whys:

 

- AC pumps are extremely reliable. I'm glad I didn't pull our pump, as that is an expensive thing to do and that little pump has served flawlessly for nearly 25 years now.

- DC pumps are not as reliable as AC pumps. There are two types: with brushes and without. The ones with brushes need to be pulled periodically to have the brushes replaced. No thanks. The ones without brushes are really synchronous (AC) machines with an electronic comutator. I nearly purchased the latter, but after contacting someone on the internet who had installed one, he told me "Don't do it!" because his had been destroyed by lightning and had to be replaced a couple of time within the span of a few years. He concluded that having electronics down in the well was not a good idea.

- The well pump, while a bit difficult to drive from the surface, did not really use all that much electricity, so it was cheaper to figure out how to run it than to replace it.

 

Now for the whats:

 

- I added an 120V/240V autotransformer between the pressure switch and the pump. This change allows us to run our pump from a 120VAC source, but it is still fed by 240VAC down the well, minimizing voltage drop down the well. As such, our well can be run from a single 120VAC inverter, if needed. While I was installing two inverters which could produce 240VAC, I wanted to be able to run from a single inverter in case one failed. Sure enough, our house was hit by lightning and one inverter failed, but I was still able to run the pump.

- I replaced the tiny 10-gallon pressure tank the builder had installed with two 46-gallon tanks. (If I had it to do over, I would have put in a single 120-gallon tank.). Simply put, the startup of the well pump is what often does the most damage. It causes the pump and pipe to twist in the borehole and eventually will wear through the insulation on the wires running down into the well. I reduced the number of start-stop cycles by a factor of ten. Also, the startup is the hard part for an AC machine. Once the well pump is started, it is fairly easy to run.

- I replaced the shower heads with very low-flow units that are clogproof yet still give a great shower. We also have extremely water-efficient appliances.

 

Finally, here are some details on our well and pump:

 

- Our pump is a 1/2-HP unit. IIRC, it draws about 20A from 240VAC during startup and about 4A while running. With the autotransformer, it draws about 40A from 120VAC during startup and about 8A while running. Even though it momentarily draws 40A, I have it wired up to a single 20A breaker which has never blown in the nearly 20 years I have had the autotransformer in place.

- Our well is about 250-feet deep and can provide about 10 GPM continuously. I have tested this by using it to fill our pool one time. It pumped about 8 GPM continuously for three full days, during which time the pump never cut off.

- We provide all of our electricity from solar power, but we are now grid-tied. As such, we have a generator and some inverters which can provide power from our electric car in case of an emergency. When we have an outage, I typically will run the generator briefly to pump the well and charge the car, then it stays off most of the time. But I can run the well pump from an inverter, if needed.

 

If/when we ever need to replace our well pump, we will replace it with another AC unit, but I will move to a lower-power motor. I understand that the newer pumps are more efficient and we will be able to get the similar performance from either a 1/3 HP or even a 1/4 HP pump.

 

Good luck with your decision on how to best pump water in an emergency!

It sounds like with a grid tie and a whole house PV system, you're able to get what you need. Good points on the ways to reduce wear, tear, and effort on your existing pump.

 

My problem for us is that we aren't adding a whole house PV system at this time. But maybe your back up power for the well is in that part you're discussing the inverters. I know they're taking DC to AC. But you have your whole house array. Or you have that array and an array at the pump?

 

We need a solution for just our pump. I guess I'm not following how your solution would be correct for my home unless I have a whole house array. Or maybe something got lost in translation?

 

We wouldn't pull up our existing AC pump. Well depth is drilled to 41 feet. I think our casing is around 6" diameter. This company's DC pump is brush driven and its 3" around so it apparently goes down the well alongside the existing AC. Smaller arrays to run it use two PV panels and GPM is around 5.5. Larger arrays use 4 or 8 panels and draw around 7 and 10 GPM, respectively.

[RegGuheert]

My problem for us is that we aren't adding a whole house PV system at this time. But maybe your back up power for the well is in that part you're discussing the inverters. I know they're taking DC to AC. But you have your whole house array. Or you have that array and an array at the pump?

 

We need a solution for just our pump. I guess I'm not following how your solution would be correct for my home unless I have a whole house array. Or maybe something got lost in translation?

Note that I have switched to a grid-tied PV system.  When the power is out, the PV panels produce nothing.  It is literally the same as your house in a power outage.

 

We wouldn't pull up our existing AC pump. Well depth is drilled to 41 feet. I think our casing is around 6" diameter. This company's DC pump is brush driven and its 3" around so it apparently goes down the well alongside the existing AC. Smaller arrays to run it use two PV panels and GPM is around 5.5. Larger arrays use 4 or 8 panels and draw around 7 and 10 GPM, respectively.

Your well is significantly shallower than our well, which means that *everything* is simpler.  To me the first question is this:  Which is cheaper: 1) A new DC pump, controller and PV panels to run it, or 2) An inverter, battery, charge controller and PV panel to enable to run your existing pump.  The second question is this: Which of the two option above is more convenient in an outage.  Based on prices I have seen for DC pump systems, I suspect the option of using an inverter, battery, and PV with your existing pump is cheaper up front, cheaper to maintain AND much more convenient.

 

In order to determine how hard it would be to run your existing pump, it would be good to know the specifications for your pump.  Does it run off of 120VAC or 240VAC?  What is the power rating?  What is the part number of the pump?

 

Note also that if you have a DC pump controller and PV, those pieces will ONLY provide you with water.  If you have an inverter, batteries and PV, you can provide yourself with water from your well and you can also use the system to power whichever other small loads you would like during an outage.

 

To me, PV-powered DC pumps are useful for livestock watering systems in the middle of a field where there are no needs for AC power for other loads, but having AC power is what you really want in your home in an outage.  We have several different ways to produce AC power to run our fridges and freezers, pellet stove, well pump, lights, etc.