Struggling with Science

[JenniferA]

It may be because I'm over thinking this. But here it goes...

 

I've been reading some of the science topics on this forum and they have me second-guessing. We do Classical Conversations, and love it, and my plan for this year was to Apologia Anatomy at home. I already have it, so it's the easy way out. But I haven't felt completely at ease with that decision. With CC we have science experiments, which I don't like doing at home anyway, and memory work. I'm wondering if this is enough. Or how I can fulfill this without a textbook. I see very little retention with textbooks, and I like the idea of interest led investigations, but I am not good with experiments at home. All that to say, I'm trying to decide what I want science to do for the kids.

 

So my question to you is: What do you want to accomplish with science? And how do you want science to shape your kids' worldview?

 

And then, how do you make that happen in your homeschool?

 

Sorry if this doesn't make sense! I'm still trying to understand what my thoughts are.

 

[Ninanoo]

My daughter is super into science right now. She see's herself being a veterinarian when she is all grown up. I see her being an animal show host hahaha, Anyway. She and I are going to be doing a lot of science this year. We just started the free Dr. Q book, and we are going to be getting the Apologia Zoology 1 and journal. We are also trying to be good observers when we are out in nature.  We found two birds nest and she has identified one of the birds and will be looking into the second one tomorrow. She is also super into Scigirls right now, which is a PBS kids show about young girls who are into science. She -loves- it. There is also a website, Scigirls.com where they can explore and have fun. I highly recommend you checking it out. She is going to replicate one of the shows problems for her science fair project this year. She also has a pet bug she is observing and learning about by taking care of it. (A katydid)

 

On top of that she has asked for an anatomy coloring page and encyclopedia which she can mess with in her free time, and she has asked for anatomy models for her birthday and Christmas. Free aps like  Dolphins, Sharks & Turtles - Ocean Tales from Generation Nature, Empowered by SeaWorld Kids keep her very happy.

 

I am hoping her love for animals, anatomy, and science in general will lead her to be a better reader, and even help her stay interested in math (she likes it now, higher science will hopefully give her a reason to stick with it as she gets older.) So for us, science is really important. Videos, games, books with great pictures, coloring pages, observing nature, trips to the zoo, museums, vets office... (even petco. lol),  these are all pretty low maintenance science experiences that your children will likely enjoy. Things like rock collections where they have to identify the rock are low maintenance and something they could do with little help. 

[Mommy Grommy]

 

So my question to you is: What do you want to accomplish with science? And how do you want science to shape your kids' worldview?

 

And then, how do you make that happen in your homeschool?

 

Good questions!

 

As a scientist, I see science as a way of seeking out truth about the natural world. How and why do things happen? How can we convince ourselves that we have the right answer? How certain are we of the answers we do have? This shapes how we approach science, because I want my kids to not only learn the content of science, but to learn how to be scientists (or engineers or historians or mathematicians-they all use similar types of thinking).

 

Now, how to actually do that in our homeschool, is another question. :) I'm still working through that myself. One thing we've done is start an "I Wonder" board, where we keep track of questions that come up in everyday life. We're going to use these questions to lead future investigations because we actually want to know the answers. Then then "scientific method" will be introduced as a tool to help us answer the questions we're interested in. I hope that eventually my kids will start to use this type of thinking on their own. We will see how it works!

[Ninanoo]

I love the I Wonder, Idea. :)

[lewelma]

It may be because I'm over thinking this. But here it goes...

 

I've been reading some of the science topics on this forum and they have me second-guessing. We do Classical Conversations, and love it, and my plan for this year was to Apologia Anatomy at home. I already have it, so it's the easy way out. But I haven't felt completely at ease with that decision. With CC we have science experiments, which I don't like doing at home anyway, and memory work. I'm wondering if this is enough. Or how I can fulfill this without a textbook. I see very little retention with textbooks, and I like the idea of interest led investigations, but I am not good with experiments at home. All that to say, I'm trying to decide what I want science to do for the kids.

 

So my question to you is: What do you want to accomplish with science? And how do you want science to shape your kids' worldview?

 

And then, how do you make that happen in your homeschool?

 

Sorry if this doesn't make sense! I'm still trying to understand what my thoughts are.

 

Hi Jennifer.  Welcome to the board!

 

The first thing you need to do is figure out what you like about Classical Conversations and what leaves you uncertain about Apologia Anatomy. These will be unique to your homeschool, and should definitely inform your decisions.

 

Then, you should lay out your goals for science.  Your kids are young, so there is nothing strictly required.  I have a list of possible goals on this thread to help you think things through. post 58 on this thread

 

Once you have goals, you can break them down into reasonable objectives and find resources to fit.

 

Here are some examples of what thinking goes into making a science plan for your homeschool:

 

Systematic unschooling for a student who dislikes most science programs

Defining the role you have to play.

Integrating language arts with science

 

Happy to help as you move through the process.

 

Ruth in NZ

[JenniferA]

Thank you for the replies! It's been a busy week, but I've been thinking on this in my spare time.

 

What is the I wonder, Idea, Ninanoo? I've not heard of it!

 

And Ruth in NZ, I've been reading your posts and those are what have me thinking! I love CC science because it gives the kids experiments, makes them think. We built egg protectors this past year, and in helping my son we were able to put together most of the memory work into making a really good egg protector. It was awesome! He loved, and I did too. So I really loved that. I loved having the memory work make sense and be used. I know at this age I can't except that to happen many times, but I had a glimpse of what is to come.

 

As far as Apologia, and really any science text or book I come across, I don't like the evolutionary theory. I read your post explaining evolution, and it makes perfect sense to me. Does that mean I believe it to be true? No, not really. (I'm not starting an argument, I promise!) But in all science texts, at least the ones I've read, they all come down to evolution. Either, it's "45 billion years ago," or it's "Some people believe we came from monkeys!" I get that evolution vs. creation is a part of science, but is it really the center and definition of science? I'm starting to think no. But how can you get away from it? Especially since it is such a big, or little, decision, I just don't get why we are shoving it in the faces of kids. They don't have to decide what they believe when they are young. They can't understand the two different views, they are young and can really only take in facts. So the fact that both sides are out to win the young minds over to their own side rubs me wrong, I guess.

 

So, I think that's what I'm looking for. Books for the kids that don't contain negative comments about people who do believe in evolution or factual statements about evolution. We're studying anatomy, chemistry, and origins (ha!). (But CC only offers definitions of the different ideas of origins, and does not influence a "correct" choice.) I'm not very good at doing experiments at home, and we have experiments in CC every week (isn't that enough?) plus I'm about to have a baby and I have a toddler. Experiments are out. At the ages of my kids, there is some understanding, but not much. Memory work, to me, is the best learning tool they have right now. It can be used later to gain understanding, but having facts, real Truth facts, memorized is giving them knowledge. Again, they are getting this from CC in their memory work.

 

So I either need to know that we're doing enough science with CC (formal science anyway, not including things like baking, animal care, home stuff, etc.) or I need some suggestions on how to fulfill the science we are getting through CC.

 

Sorry this is so long! I'm still sorting it out, but this is certainly helping!

[lewelma]

There are 2 different issues here.

 

1) You are not clear on what you want your kids to get out of their science time.

2) You are frustrated with the content of the resources you have seen.

 

Well, first of all, science is about way more than content.  Science is also about developing attitudes (curiosity, enthusiasm, persistence, etc) and developing skills (reading skills, study skills, experimental design, observation skills, critical thinking, lab techniques, etc). And even in content, you are frustrated with basically the scientific content of biology and parts of astronomy and geology.  But you could still study chemistry (Plastics, metals and alloys, fertlizers, oil and gasoline industry, nuclear energy, gems and jewellery, mining, food chemistry, atmospheric chemistry, water pollution, you get the idea) and physics (Constructing buildings, cranes, levers, magnets, electricity, sound, musical instruments, light, rainbows, prisms, how microscopes and telescopes work, mirrors, particle physics, quantum mechanics, nuclear energy, etc!), and Earth Science (Oceanography, Meteorology, and parts of geology and astronomy).  So even if you purposely keep your kids from any exposure to Evolution and the age of the earth/universe, there is still plenty to study, and plenty of regular everyday science books out there written for kids. 

 

But I think what you really need to do is figure out what you *do* want them to study rather than what you *don't* want them to study both in content and in skills.  Here is a list (in post 58) that I made that will help you start to think about goals.  Once you have figured out your goals, you can plan your objectives, and then and only then do you start looking for resources to meet these objectives and goals.

 

As for the specifics you have given so far, you have said that you both love and hate experiments.  So I am not really clear on that one.

And you have not been specific about what you like about Apologia. 

 

So give those 2 things a good long think, and then read over the above linked post and think about your goals. I can't tell you if you are doing enough because I don't know what your goals are.  You are doing enough if you are meeting your goals, so you have to define your goals.  This effort will definitely help you gain clarity and confidence in your plan to teach your children.

 

Happy to help you with this process if you want,

 

Ruth in NZ

[JenniferA]

Ruth of NZ, yes I need lots of help and am very grateful for yours!

 

I'm still reading the above link. I keep having to stop to process, so I'm only up to post #23. But to clarify the points I was not clear on:

 

I like doing the experiments at CC, I do not like doing experiments at home. They stress me out at home.

 

I'm not sure I do like Apologia. I just have it because we used it last time we went through Cycle 3 in Classical Conversations, so it's an easy choice.

 

I am trying to figure out my goals with science. I don't really have any at this point. Language, history, and grammar are easy for me, and I have goals for those. I've struggled with math, but I think I've come to conclusion on my goals there. Lastly, I have science. And it's my hardest yet. I've never been very interested in science, or felt like it was a necessary part of my education. I did what I had to do, and I made good grades, but it wasn't important to me. So now, I'm trying to understand what science does for an education and how I can use it in my kids' education. But since I don't feel like science did anything for mine, this is very difficult for me.

 

This is taking a lot of inner speculation! More than I thought it would. Is this making any more sense to you? I'm off to keep reading and digesting!

[lewelma]

I have jury duty this week, so will be in and out. 

 

I have no idea what CC is.  Is it something you do away from home?  Is it completely experiment based? Or does it have a text?  A teacher?  What did you like about it, and what did your child? The way it was laid out?  The content?  The challenge?  The scheduling? The fact that someone else made all the decisions for you?  The output requirements?  The lack of tests?  What?  Be specific!

 

 

[lewelma]

Does not seem like you have found the goals list, so I have x-posted it here.  You do not have to use my goals these all, but they will give you a feel for what you are looking for.  Also, be aware that these are generic goals, they are not the goals I follow, and not everyone would agree with them.  So I am serious about changing them to meet your criteria for your family.

 

 

 

Elementary level goals

Content: Interest driven. There are no requirements for content in elementary

Skills
1) Reading: able to read nonfiction at increased difficulty over time
2) Output: able to summarize what has been learned, verbally or in writing
3) Observation: ability to see what is actually there, not what you expect to see
4) Math: at grade level

Attitudes
1) Curiosity: "wanting to understand the world"(Regentrude). Including the desire to find answers either through books, observation, or tinkering
2) Enthusiasm towards science (or at least a positive attitude)

Middle School level goals

Content: Broad overview of biology, earth science, chemistry, physics (this can be systematic or interest driven). High school science is easier if it is not the first time the material has been encountered.

Skills (students who already possess these skills by 9th grade will be set to succeed in high school science):
1) Reading: Ability to read difficult text. Ability to interpret graphs, charts, and diagrams.
2) Writing: Ability to write succinct answers to "short-answer" questions including evaluate, interpret, integrate, compare and contrast, critique, etc.
3) Math: at grade level. Including the ability to identify and draw appropriate graphs for the data
4) Logical thinking and problem solving capability
5) Study skills, reading a textbook, organization skills, time management, note taking
6) Scientific Method: general understanding of how experiments are replicated and controlled, how hypotheses are are accepted or rejected (this does not need to be a detailed understanding, although it could be if you want to spend the time doing it in middle school to save some time in highschool)

Attitudes
Reinforce 1 and 2: curiosity and enthusiasm
3) Scepticism: "inquire what facts substantiate a claim" (Regentrude)
4) Acceptance of falsification: Ability to reject your hypotheses; to not have your ego tied to your ideas.

High School level goals

Content
1) Science curriculum, including interdisciplinary topics
2) Current events: including politics, pseudoscience, and ethical decision making (I need to think more about this one)
3) Science careers: understanding the peer review process, variety of methods to answering questions (observational, theoretical, statistical, experimental, etc)(Regentrude), double blind studies (need to think more about this one too)

Skills
Reinforce skills 1-5: reading, writing, math, logical thinking/problem solving, and study skills

6) Scientific method:
a) Forming a hypothesis and identifying if it is answerable
B) Collecting background information
c) Designing systematic methods to answer a question (including objective measurement, defining terms, and replication and controls if doing an experiment)
d) Identifying best way present data (designing tables, graphs, diagrams)
e) Identifying assumptions
f) Identifying errors, find their source, suggest future ways to prevent them
g) Interpreting data
h) Identifying future work

7) Ability to use equipment appropriate to field of study
8) Ability to write lab reports
9) Statistical knowledge including probability and issues like correlation vs causation
10) Evaluation of scientific research (obviously, in only a general way)
11) Presentation skills/public speaking (not required, but an excellent add in if time)

Attitudes
Reinforce 1-4: curiosity, enthusiasm, scepticism, falsification
5) Persistence: in the face of failed experiments and the need to try new things over and over and over
6) Honesty: being completely objective while collecting data. The goal is to find the truth, not support your personal opinions (this is often harder than your realize, which is why scientists do double blind studies)

[lewelma]

If you have not read this thread  Defining the role you have to play.  it is worth your time to do so.  The kid was older, but the process the mom went through to identify goals and a plan is worth a read.

[JenniferA]

Sorry! CC is Classical Conversations. (I said it in the first post.) Classical Conversations is a home school group that we go to once a week. We learn our memory work, do science experiments and art projects, and have presentations. I love it because the work of the science experiment is already done for me, the kids really seem to learn something, and the scientific method is being taught and exemplified. For experiments at home, I never have all of the "normal household items" in my house for science experiments, so it usually takes buying something that I don't want in my house. (Example, one of the projects I've come across was to use a magnet to pull the iron from an iron-fortified cereal to the bottom of the bag. We don't eat cereal.)

 

Ok, I'm going to be more specific...We do have a tutor in Classical Conversations who is over the class and brings the materials and presents it. It is not primarily on science, and we do not have a text. But we do have a science time for experiments. These experiments have taught my kids lots of things. My son is easily discouraged and feels like he can't do the experiment. We've had to work on breathing, being ok with failure and messing up, and always trying again without giving up. I'm able to concentrate on those lessons with him while the science experiment is still going on. My daughter is able to keep going and has gained a bit of independence. These are important lessons for him; he needs them for life in general too. I like the content of the experiments too. One of our projects last year was to build an egg protector. The first day, my son was horrified. We hardly got it started, but through the next week he and I talked about all of our memory work from earlier in the year. Things like force equals mass times acceleration. We talked about how the force of the egg hitting the ground could be changed if we could either change the mass or the acceleration. We put another earlier experiment in there that dealt with mass and how when mass is stretched out, as in a roll of tape, it moves slower than mass that is concentrated, as in a marble. So we talked about ways we could build the egg protector that would spread the mass out and slow down the acceleration. And he rocked it. It was amazing. His egg did not break. He needed help, but it was an amazing experience for him, a very good confidence builder. Another project was to build a bridge. My daughter built a huge bridge that I was sure would not hold up anything, but she built it so long that it held up books! She was so proud. And I was too!

 

I did get to post #62 last night, so I did read the goals. And those seem simple enough to accomplish. It doesn't really seem like a formal science curriculum is necessary to complete those goals, in fact. This year in CC we will be learning anatomy, for the first half. We'll have memory work each week that identifies parts of the body, whether it's different types of muscle or different systems, organs, etc. Part of our experiments, or projects, will be to build a body, coloring and labeling the different parts. The other projects (I'm not sure I should call them experiments after reading the above!) are about using the body (examples, to demonstrate the persistence of vision, fingerprints, lung capacity, etc.). We always talk about the scientific method with each experiment/project, although the questions obviously don't come from the kids. They are given the opportunity to come up with a hypothesis, after being presented with the question, the materials, the controls, and the method. They find it fun that sometime they are right and sometimes they are wrong. Our experiments come from the Van Cleave's 201...Experiments.

 

I just finished reading the goals discussions. The depth you think about science education is the depth I think about history and language education! And I have read the post you linked to above and the one in that thread as well. But now it's midnight, and I'm supposed to be getting up earlier to prepare for school. I'll be thinking about those goals, and what mine should be. Thank you for all this direction and inspiration! This is really taking some soul searching for me.

[lewelma]

We do Classical Conversations, and love it, and my plan for this year was to Apologia Anatomy at home. I already have it, so it's the easy way out.... {snip} ... I see very little retention with textbooks.

 

 

 

Classical Conversations is a home school group that we go to once a week. We learn our memory work, do science experiments and art projects, and have presentations. I love it because the work of the science experiment is already done for me, the kids really seem to learn something, and the scientific method is being taught and exemplified.

 

These 2 quotes really confuse me.  Why are you leaving your CC group if it has been so good? I think I must be missing something.

 

What you are doing in CC sounds like it fits your kids' learning needs and fits your teaching needs.  So a win-win. I must be missing the question.  :tongue_smilie:  It's been a long day as a juror, so I'm sure it must be my misinterpretation.

 

 

So far, I see your goals as:

 

Content: currently Anatomy.

 

Attitudes. Work this year to improve:

Persistence.

Confidence

Acceptance of failure

 

Skills: Work this year to improve the following skills:

Memory work

Critical thinking

Brainstorming

Presentations skills

Drawing skills

Observation skills

Experimental design basics

Application of theory to practice

 

 

I think that this is good, sturdy, stuff for elementary-aged kids. Throw in some independent reading of fun/easy science books from the library and you are set this year.

 

If, however, you do have to leave your CC group, we will have to have a good long think about how to meet their needs at home without sacrificing your sanity.

[JenniferA]

Thank you Ruth! I love those goals, I'm going to print them out and add them to my binder.

 

We aren't leaving CC, I just felt like I was supposed to supplement extra science at home, but I didn't want to waste our time at home with something that would not be retained. I can do library books though! And I can rest a bit easier now. Thank you for your help!