How to Transition to WTM Reading and Writing

[Amy M]

I'm about to start 2nd grade with ds1. I would really like to start doing reading and writing as outlined in TWTM. But I feel confused or worried about it.

 

First, how can I streamline some of these language arts, such as copywork and narration? I made a Word doc of WTM 2nd grade expectations with all the subjects together and my notes. I've got narration in FLL 2 (I'm using the original version that combined levels 1&2), in writing, reading, history, and science. I have copywork in WWE, FLL, bits of the narration in history and science and reading, and penmanship paper every day for cursive (ABeka 2nd grade cursive book, which often has 2-3 sentences a day for them to copy, not just lines of "e" for example).

 

Can I make the penmanship paper count as the copywork in WWE, or do I have to specifically follow the grammar suggestions in WWE in my copywork selections? Can I drop the copywork in FLL? Can I drop the narration in FLL, and can I use our reading AS WWE (since it sounds like the same thing in TWTM)? Then I would have narration after reading, history, and science, but not in FLL and WWE off of selections not chosen by us or related to our other subjects. I guess I wonder how much is overdone repetition, and how much is necessary for each subject.

 

If I do that then I have concerns regarding reading and concerns regarding writing.

 

Re: reading--I wanted to get away from the reading textbooks (am using ABeka's w/ their phonics program) and start using literature that's tied into our history, as suggested in WTM for reading. How do I know what reading material is appropriately hard? I feel safe with ABeka's pre-picked controlled readers. How do I know how much to read? Do you go by time limit, or page number? WTM says 30 minutes, with 30-60 minutes for the child later. Does that seem too much? In 1st grade, just doing all of ABeka's assigned reading was maxing us out at about 20 minutes. I don't want to be too lazy or too perfectionistic.

 

Re: writing--When I read the instructor's text for WWE, I feel that I could probably do it myself based on our literature that we use for reading. But if we then do narrations based on that (as suggested in WTM for the reading notebook), isn't that basically what WWE is? Am I then supposed to read to the child from something else, or from further in the same book, in order to do our WWE narration? But is it expecting too much to get the child to narrate from their own reading in 2nd grade? Reading is still kinda difficult for my son. I'd say he's average.

 

Then when I look at the WWE workbook, which I have, I feel I could not do what she does on my own. Some selections are designed for getting the child to give details vs. others where he's supposed to narrate the main points of a story. What if I can't figure out on my own how to lead my child to a summary through questions? The workbook is nice, since SWB already has all of the selections so carefully thought out for specific purposes, with comprehension questions and sample narrations already written down. What if I go through a whole year doing the work to make up my own selections, and it so nicely dovetails with our history; but he doesn't figure out how to find the main point of a passage?

 

Should I stick with the careful ABeka phonics readers, and do everything in FLL and the WWE workbook, and just have my son read history lit to himself during that extra 30-60 minutes of reading time? But I would really love it if we could read some of the great literature we have around here and tie it into our history for reading, and then have those be the narrations that WWE is working towards, if that makes sense. How can I not do too much language and use only WTM suggestions for reading and writing? Am I making sense? :huh:

[Amy M]

Hmm, I seem to have a penchant for asking hard, involved questions. Does anyone do reading as outlined in TWTM? Does anyone use just the instructor's text for WWE2? Does anyone combine the two--the reading and writing?

[SorrelZG]

I'm going to come back and read this more carefully when I have a better opportunity but I wanted to say that I've been reading through the TWTM and am working through this stuff also as I contemplate my plans for next year. I want to do the notebooks next year and add formal grammar and am debating on wether to continue with WWE 3 or just (re)buy the instructor's text as a guide for writing across the curriculum. The big point of confusion for me is that, although reading the goals in TWTM and listening to the writing lecture for grammar stage leaves me feeling empowered - like, I can totally do this - actually looking through the WWE workbooks undermines all my confidence. There was actually a thread about this sometime last year where other people expressed the same sense of disconnect.

[Amy M]

I'm going to come back and read this more carefully when I have a better opportunity but I wanted to say that I've been reading through the TWTM and am working through this stuff also as I contemplate my plans for next year. I want to do the notebooks next year and add formal grammar and am debating on wether to continue with WWE 3 or just (re)buy the instructor's text as a guide for writing across the curriculum. The big point of confusion for me is that, although reading the goals in TWTM and listening to the writing lecture for grammar stage leaves me feeling empowered - like, I can totally do this - actually looking through the WWE workbooks undermines all my confidence. There was actually a thread about this sometime last year where other people expressed the same sense of disconnect.

 

I notice you're using WWE2 this year. Are you using the workbook then?

[scootiepie]

I use only the text for WWE2 and while I don't do it faithfully (as it steps 1-4, every single week) and maybe I could use a bit more organization, I kind of use it as a guide.   Sometimes I read aloud, sometimes it's independent reading.   Sometimes it's fiction, sometimes nonfiction.   Could be a few paragraphs from SOTW or a science book.    If it's right there in the book I use that.

 

My son (almost 8) has a memory like a steel trap and getting him down to a 1-2 sentence summary, rather than repeating every detail back to me, has been a work in progress but he is getting it now.

Getting him to write it down is a struggle because that is his weakness.   He still needs to be reminded to capitalize and other such basics.   So I'm not saying, oooh look, that is a linking verb (maybe

I should but I don't with WWE.   We do review all that in FLL2).   

 

I haven't read the WTM in a long time and haven't listened to the lectures, so maybe I'm doing it all wrong.    I do know he is either just weak in writing, or developmentally not ready, so I do have to balance pushing him versus overloading and frustrating him.    So I do try to find reading that he likes to kind of make it a little easier.

[Amy M]

I use only the text for WWE2 and while I don't do it faithfully (as it steps 1-4, every single week) and maybe I could use a bit more organization, I kind of use it as a guide.   Sometimes I read aloud, sometimes it's independent reading.   Sometimes it's fiction, sometimes nonfiction.   Could be a few paragraphs from SOTW or a science book.    If it's right there in the book I use that.

 

My son (almost 8) has a memory like a steel trap and getting him down to a 1-2 sentence summary, rather than repeating every detail back to me, has been a work in progress but he is getting it now.

Getting him to write it down is a struggle because that is his weakness.   He still needs to be reminded to capitalize and other such basics.   So I'm not saying, oooh look, that is a linking verb (maybe

I should but I don't with WWE.   We do review all that in FLL2).   

 

I haven't read the WTM in a long time and haven't listened to the lectures, so maybe I'm doing it all wrong.    I do know he is either just weak in writing, or developmentally not ready, so I do have to balance pushing him versus overloading and frustrating him.    So I do try to find reading that he likes to kind of make it a little easier.

 

So do you consider WWE2 a separate subject from reading then, for you? And do you do the narrations and copywork in FLL then?

 

[scootiepie]

Well, I always make him read something during his school day.  I just call it independent reading - usually when I'm working with his sister or just need to do some chores.    We are still working through OPGTR so only when we are working through some lessons there do I consider that new subject matter.    So in that sense it is separate.  I hope that makes sense.  

 

For the WWE exercises, that is something I have to read, too, in order to guide him through the summarizing and dictation.   So for example, the last couple that I did, I read aloud an excerpt from Robinson Crusoe and a short story on Theseus and the Minotaur.    Both were very boy-ish and interesting to him.     

 

And sometimes I will just tell him to pick a nonfiction book (could just be an encyclopedia page about an animal) and tell me what he read.   I might write down some questions and have him answer them in writing.    I don't think that's in the book anywhere :)

 

[scootiepie]

Oh and yes I also do the FLL pretty much as it goes along, and on the days it is a lot like WWE I don't do both.

[dsbrack]

I'm new to this too, so take this with a grain of salt.  My plan is to use FLL 1 and WWE 1 as is with the workbook for our first  year.  I need the workbook right now to build MY confidence in teaching the narration skills.  After I have a year under my belt, I may decide I don't need it or I may decide that I like the simplicity of having it all done for me.  I will not be requiring my son to do any extra copywork outside of these resources as his writing stamina is still developing but we will narrate across the curriculum in our history and science subjects.  I will continue to write all his narrations.  I see narration as a valuable tool in all subjects to check his comprehension.  We have some read alouds that we do just for fun without any narration required but most of our content  subject read alouds will be narrated. 

 

I consider reading to be a separate subject as he we are still working through OPGTR.  Once we finish that up, he will have assigned reading but the difficultly and length of time required will depend on his skill level as his reading skills mature.  I will not ask him to narrate when he reads aloud to me as it is difficult for him to comprehend while he is working so hard to decode.  I will also not ask him to narrate any of his books that are just for fun. 

[SilverMoon]

I have done WTM grammar stage writing sans WWE four times now. When my older kids started all we *had* were the instructions in TWTM; WWE didn't exist. My 3rd and 5th graders could have used WWE, but we were already set in our ways by then.

 

Copywork - I'd stagger those subjects so he only has one good sized assignment a day. I'll assume he is now fluent in cursive if he can copy whole sentences, in which case you can double the already existent copywork as penmanship. Tell him they must be done in his best writing. Decide where the bar for neatness is and enforce it by having him redo any word that wasn't neat.

 

Narration - Practice in reading, history, and science is sufficient. I absolutely would replace WWE with this. Narration is so infrequent in FLL that you could go either way.

 

Reading: WWE would not count for reading for my kids. In 2nd all but one of mine were reading well enough for a daily quiet reading time. They had a shelf I stocked with high quality children's lit, some easy, some a little harder, and some right on grade level. They were expected to read for a particular amount of time from whatever book they chose from that shelf. (The "late bloomer" practiced phonics and reading to me instead.) I just discuss these books with my kids and do not expect narrations.

[Walking-Iris]

I'm about to start 2nd grade with ds1. I would really like to start doing reading and writing as outlined in TWTM. But I feel confused or worried about it.

 

First, how can I streamline some of these language arts, such as copywork and narration? I made a Word doc of WTM 2nd grade expectations with all the subjects together and my notes. I've got narration in FLL 2 (I'm using the original version that combined levels 1&2), in writing, reading, history, and science. I have copywork in WWE, FLL, bits of the narration in history and science and reading, and penmanship paper every day for cursive (ABeka 2nd grade cursive book, which often has 2-3 sentences a day for them to copy, not just lines of "e" for example).

 

Can I make the penmanship paper count as the copywork in WWE, or do I have to specifically follow the grammar suggestions in WWE in my copywork selections? Can I drop the copywork in FLL? Can I drop the narration in FLL, and can I use our reading AS WWE (since it sounds like the same thing in TWTM)? Then I would have narration after reading, history, and science, but not in FLL and WWE off of selections not chosen by us or related to our other subjects. I guess I wonder how much is overdone repetition, and how much is necessary for each subject.

 

If I do that then I have concerns regarding reading and concerns regarding writing.

 

Re: reading--I wanted to get away from the reading textbooks (am using ABeka's w/ their phonics program) and start using literature that's tied into our history, as suggested in WTM for reading. How do I know what reading material is appropriately hard? I feel safe with ABeka's pre-picked controlled readers. How do I know how much to read? Do you go by time limit, or page number? WTM says 30 minutes, with 30-60 minutes for the child later. Does that seem too much? In 1st grade, just doing all of ABeka's assigned reading was maxing us out at about 20 minutes. I don't want to be too lazy or too perfectionistic.

 

Re: writing--When I read the instructor's text for WWE, I feel that I could probably do it myself based on our literature that we use for reading. But if we then do narrations based on that (as suggested in WTM for the reading notebook), isn't that basically what WWE is? Am I then supposed to read to the child from something else, or from further in the same book, in order to do our WWE narration? But is it expecting too much to get the child to narrate from their own reading in 2nd grade? Reading is still kinda difficult for my son. I'd say he's average.

 

Then when I look at the WWE workbook, which I have, I feel I could not do what she does on my own. Some selections are designed for getting the child to give details vs. others where he's supposed to narrate the main points of a story. What if I can't figure out on my own how to lead my child to a summary through questions? The workbook is nice, since SWB already has all of the selections so carefully thought out for specific purposes, with comprehension questions and sample narrations already written down. What if I go through a whole year doing the work to make up my own selections, and it so nicely dovetails with our history; but he doesn't figure out how to find the main point of a passage?

 

Should I stick with the careful ABeka phonics readers, and do everything in FLL and the WWE workbook, and just have my son read history lit to himself during that extra 30-60 minutes of reading time? But I would really love it if we could read some of the great literature we have around here and tie it into our history for reading, and then have those be the narrations that WWE is working towards, if that makes sense. How can I not do too much language and use only WTM suggestions for reading and writing? Am I making sense? :huh:

 To streamline copywork and narration, I wouldn't necessarily expect a 2nd grader, especially one still having some reading difficulties to do science or history copywork or written narrations. I would simply focus on learning to appreciate science and history at that age. Lots of experiments and projects and talking about the world. Simply read aloud your history, watch some documentaries, do some crafts, and talk about it. Same with science. 

 

I like to use Handwriting Without Tears for handwriting, but we usually just zoom through the book in the beginning of the year and then let any other writing activities we do be handwriting. I don't keep up direct handwriting instruction all year long. 

 

I'm using the combo FLL book and WWE with my current 1st grader. I only do 3 days of FLL a week, and oftentimes I combine several lessons in to one if they are easy. Ionly do 2 days of WWE  aweek with my youngest. He can easily work on a copywork and listen to the passage at the same time and then we use the questions as springboards into discussing it. I haven't found doing both WWE and FLL to be too much. (That may change when the passages get harder in WWE2) But there's no reason you have to finish a WWE level in one year. Go at a pace that is comfortable for you. 

 

I don't believe students are asked to attempt to read aloud WWE passages until WWE3. And even then use your own best judgement. Even with my oldest it's a mix of me reading aloud, him reading aloud, or silently. I wouldn't expect a 2nd grader to read aloud WWE, I would read them to him. We do use teh WWE selections as ideas for read alouds. Sometimes a passage interests us so much we just find and read aloud the whole book. But I don't think you need to worry over much about reading aloud anything in any particular order. Sinc eyour 2nd grader still struggles, just continue with a phonics program that you like. It's my understanding that the list of reading books in WTM at that age are meant to be read aloud. You could try McGuffy as recommended in WTM for your ds's reading practice. Or just continue to offer him any and all books at his level. I wouldn't consider WWE/FLL reading time. 

 

When I started WWE I thought I could just use the text and do it myself. But I'm really glad I got the workbooks. It makes it so much easier to have it laid out for you. Less work on the teacher's part. You really can't go wrong with the workbooks. Just remember they are leveled, not graded, so don't feel a rush to complete one a year or even in 4 years. Something I do to save me time as well. I ignore the student sheets in the back and instead have my children do copywork/dictation in a nice unlined sketchbook. They then illustrate with colored pencils a scene from that passage. It makes a nice keepsake, and no loose pages to keep up with.

 

As far as the question is narration difficult in 2nd grade. I say no. Because if you think about it as a conversation rather than some academic exercise, then really that's all you're doing. Having a conversation about what was just read or seen (you can narrate an art piece or a movie as well). Try not to think about the WWE questions as little quizzes, but questions to help you guide the conversation with your student. I always try to do WWE in as natural a tone of voice as possible. My children just get a hint that they are being quizzed in some way and there's a right or wrong answer, they are turned off. But allowing them to talk out their initial impressions first, I've found it easy to naturally guide them into the oral narration summarizing skills. So if you are in the habit of talking to your 2nd grader...;)---then you can do narrations. I don't always write down their narration every WWE lesson. It feels contrived and a bit fake at times. I try to strike a balance with having that narration conversation and jotting down his narration. 

 

I'm not sure I helped. You asked a lot of questions.

[lifesadream83]

We use FLL, and do copy work from whatever book she is reading.  I just look through her reading for the day the night before and pick something relevant to something she has learned or will learn that day in FLL.  I typically have her do it in cursive (now that she has completed her books on how to make each letter) and that is her handwriting.  Her narrations come from History and question and response from her readers.  

 

If you do FLL2 and WWE2 you will find a ton of overlap.  She created those for people who want it all spelled out.  If you have the WWE teacher guide (the main book) use it as a source and draw from other books you are already using.  (I use FLL and build from there) Otherwise you are just going to overwhelm yourself.

 

Hope that helps! 

[lifesadream83]

I answered the first part about WWE & FLL in my previous post but wanted to epand on the others here.

 

Re: reading--I wanted to get away from the reading textbooks (am using ABeka's w/ their phonics program) and start using literature that's tied into our history, as suggested in WTM for reading. How do I know what reading material is appropriately hard? I feel safe with ABeka's pre-picked controlled readers. How do I know how much to read? Do you go by time limit, or page number? WTM says 30 minutes, with 30-60 minutes for the child later. Does that seem too much? In 1st grade, just doing all of ABeka's assigned reading was maxing us out at about 20 minutes. I don't want to be too lazy or too perfectionistic.

 

I was also worried about this.  We use Sonlight Readers.  Her daily amount is what SL suggests in their Instructor Guide (that is what I do) and if she wants to read more that is up to her (she didn't at first but now gets lost in books.)  So stick with the Abeka if that is what you are comfortable with.  (From what I hear Abeka is advanced so don't worry if he lags a bit.)  

 

Re: writing--When I read the instructor's text for WWE, I feel that I could probably do it myself based on our literature that we use for reading. But if we then do narrations based on that (as suggested in WTM for the reading notebook), isn't that basically what WWE is? Am I then supposed to read to the child from something else, or from further in the same book, in order to do our WWE narration? But is it expecting too much to get the child to narrate from their own reading in 2nd grade? Reading is still kinda difficult for my son. I'd say he's average.

 

For narration (up til 4th grade) you are just trying to get him to give you a summary.  Think what happened at the beginning, middle and end of the story.  A great way to implement this is just by talking about what you have read in history.  You are just ensuring that he got the facts.  (In other words don't ask him to analyze what he read yet just talk about facts that occurred in the story.) The WHAT is the focus for the Grammar Stage, HOW and WHY come with the logic stage.  

 

Then when I look at the WWE workbook, which I have, I feel I could not do what she does on my own. Some selections are designed for getting the child to give details vs. others where he's supposed to narrate the main points of a story. What if I can't figure out on my own how to lead my child to a summary through questions?   See Above 1st next Last.  The workbook is nice, since SWB already has all of the selections so carefully thought out for specific purposes, with comprehension questions and sample narrations already written down. What if I go through a whole year doing the work to make up my own selections, and it so nicely dovetails with our history; but he doesn't figure out how to find the main point of a passage? This will come in time as you feel more secure in what you are teaching him.  

 

Should I stick with the careful ABeka phonics readers, and do everything in FLL and the WWE workbook, and just have my son read history lit to himself during that extra 30-60 minutes of reading time? But I would really love it if we could read some of the great literature we have around here and tie it into our history for reading, and then have those be the narrations that WWE is working towards, if that makes sense. How can I not do too much language and use only WTM suggestions for reading and writing? Am I making sense? :huh:

 

 

I am not sure what you are using for history now but what I would suggest to you based on your concerns is this:

 

First Language Lessons 1 (Start with 1 there are many chants they learn.  It may seem annoying at first but when you see them transition to the logic stage mentally you will see that it all makes sense now. )

 

Story of the World Book and Activity Guide (I would start with ancients but if you already covered ancients then go for middle ages.)  The Activity guide contains the questions and narrations that you are so worried about covering and make suggestions for readers (on his level identified with IR -independent reader and a grade level) and read alouds that coincide with the time period.

 

Use your Abeka Phonics and whatever Math and science you are currently using. 

 

This will help build your confidence, alleviate duplication and give you a sense of what you are doing for future years.  Then you can either stick with things you like or move away from them.  

 

If you are still overly concerned you can add in WWE ( I would start with Level 1) and drop it or keep going with it if you so choose.  its only 26$ on amazon and Rainbow Resources probably has it cheaper.  

 

[Amy M]

Just to clarify for the above post, I used FLL 1, WWE1 workbook, and SOTW 1 this year. So we would be moving on to FLL 2, SOTW 2, and WWE2. ABeka phonics is all review in 2nd grade; 1st grade introduced all of the "charts." So I thought now might be a good time to do reading as TWTM suggests, using reading suggestions that correspond to SOTW2. I'm just concerned about getting the right levels of reading material, and doing too much or too little. (I also don't have a library.)

 

Secondly, I'm not considering using the WWE2 workbook, which I have, as reading. I'm considering using literature that corresponds with history as our reading this year, and since TWTM suggests doing narrations in a certain way for that reading, it sounded exactly like WWE to me. So I wondered if there are people out there who do both reading and writing TWTM way (without the WWE workbook), and who "count" the reading narrations as the WWE for the day. Or if they do both--the reading plus narrations as outlined in TWTM and then go on to do the workbook of WWE2 or their own further selections for WWE2 (on top of doing WTM reading).

 

Let me ask it another way, and thank you for bearing with me...

 

How many narrations do you expect per week/day from your 2nd grader? I plan on reading SOTW three times per week, so that's 3 narrations right there. Then add in reading TWTM way. That's daily. Or I could drop it to 3 times a week for that as well. Then there's the potential of FLL narrations and WWE2 workbook narrations and science narrations (we'll be using Apologia Swimming Creatures with a lapbook, so I don't mind just letting the lapbook be our method of "narration" or review or whatever).

 

I'm leaning towards reading as outlined in TWTM, which would "count" as WWE. I'm leaning towards doing WWE-type copywork 2 times a week with dictation as outlined in WWE instructor text, and on the other days using the penmanship workbook from ABeka. Then doing history 3 times a week with narrations each time; and science and FLL--dropping those narrations and the copywork (in FLL). Is there anyone who thinks it would be better to NOT drop copywork or narrations from FLL or the WWE workbook, or who thinks that I should stick with phonics-controlled readers and WWE2 workbook? Is this totally confusing?!

[Amy M]

I have done WTM grammar stage writing sans WWE four times now. When my older kids started all we *had* were the instructions in TWTM; WWE didn't exist. My 3rd and 5th graders could have used WWE, but we were already set in our ways by then.

 

Copywork - I'd stagger those subjects so he only has one good sized assignment a day. I'll assume he is now fluent in cursive if he can copy whole sentences, in which case you can double the already existent copywork as penmanship. Tell him they must be done in his best writing. Decide where the bar for neatness is and enforce it by having him redo any word that wasn't neat.

 

Narration - Practice in reading, history, and science is sufficient. I absolutely would replace WWE with this. Narration is so infrequent in FLL that you could go either way.

 

Reading: WWE would not count for reading for my kids. In 2nd all but one of mine were reading well enough for a daily quiet reading time. They had a shelf I stocked with high quality children's lit, some easy, some a little harder, and some right on grade level. They were expected to read for a particular amount of time from whatever book they chose from that shelf. (The "late bloomer" practiced phonics and reading to me instead.) I just discuss these books with my kids and do not expect narrations.

 

Thank you! This is both helpful and confusing to me. I'm not thinking of counting WWE as reading, but of counting our reading (lit connected to science) as WWE. So you say to do narration in reading, but then on your reading section you say you do not expect narrations. ?

 

I was thinking of having the kids read lit connected to history, and then narrate it as outlined in WTM, and in accordance with WWE goals. Is that what you're saying to do?

 

And if I instead have him practice reading with ABeka readers, then should I skip any history-literature + narrations?

 

[lifesadream83]

Gotcha! 

 

Let me ask it another way, and thank you for bearing with me...

 

How many narrations do you expect per week/day from your 2nd grader? I plan on reading SOTW three times per week, so that's 3 narrations right there. So you have been using SOTW so I hope this makes sense.  I would do Narrations here. 

 

Then add in reading TWTM way. That's daily. Or I could drop it to 3 times a week for that as well. I was worried about grade level reading too.  I moved towards the Sonlight Reader Guides (you have to actually type in reader guide to their search if you want to find them).  They are 6-7$ each for the guides and MOST of the books you can find at the library.  That is what I went to.  It has one or two questions per chapter, some words that maybe difficult and has them look at places on a map plus the reading is broken down into a manageable for that level of reading.  I do those questions and activities and do not find it over whelming.     So I would do whatever readers with copy work here.

 

Then there's the potential of FLL narrations and WWE2 workbook narrations and science narrations (we'll be using Apologia Swimming Creatures with a lapbook, so I don't mind just letting the lapbook be our method of "narration" or review or whatever). I would just do the Lapbook and FLL (Personally, adding WWE was too much for us.  My daughter has already moved into the Creative Writer by Peace Hill Press and still does copywork from her readers that I pick just like I mentioned above.)

 

I'm leaning towards reading as outlined in TWTM, which would "count" as WWE. I'm leaning towards doing WWE-type copywork 2 times a week with dictation as outlined in WWE instructor text, Pull copy work from whatever he is reading.  and on the other days using the penmanship workbook from ABeka. GREAT Then doing history 3 times a week with narrations each time; and science and FLL--dropping those narrations and the copywork (in FLL). I do FLL as written.   Is there anyone who thinks it would be better to NOT drop copywork or narrations from FLL or the WWE workbook, or who thinks that I should stick with phonics-controlled readers yes if he needs it... if he is ready for books find a grade level book list and move on... this is a when he is ready for it thing... and WWE2 workbook? like I said I don't use it but there are MANY people who do it all ...  Is this totally confusing?! nope!

  I assumed you hadnt used level one because the title of your post was transitioning to ... sorry

[SilverMoon]

Thank you! This is both helpful and confusing to me. I'm not thinking of counting WWE as reading, but of counting our reading (lit connected to science) as WWE. So you say to do narration in reading, but then on your reading section you say you do not expect narrations. ?

 

I was thinking of having the kids read lit connected to history, and then narrate it as outlined in WTM, and in accordance with WWE goals. Is that what you're saying to do?

 

And if I instead have him practice reading with ABeka readers, then should I skip any history-literature + narrations?

 

Yes to the bolded. What I think of as WTM-style writing you're calling WWE. I think of the actual curriculum when WWE is mentioned, rather than the method. :) I could have worded my description better. Yes, use the material you're already reading anyway for those early writing foundation blocks. It will be more meaningful to the DC anyway. SWB has said WWE was written for the people who needed the WTM instructions fleshed out for them.

 

What I meant in that last paragraph was literature. And my kids don't realize they're doing formal narrations, because it looks like simply discussing the material with mom. I am constantly asking my children to tell me what they learned/read about/did in their various subjects, from the kindergartner to the high schooler, and ask more questions until I'm satisfied that they covered it well. In 2nd grade I expect less detailed descriptions of their lit than their history and science. Non-fiction is just easier to learn those beginning skills with.

 

*I* would drop the Abeka readers unless you think he should still be reading aloud daily for instruction purposes. If that is the case, I'd get history books and literature a little under his level for his quiet reading time.

[Amy M]

Yes to the bolded. What I think of as WTM-style writing you're calling WWE. I think of the actual curriculum when WWE is mentioned, rather than the method. :) I could have worded my description better. Yes, use the material you're already reading anyway for those early writing foundation blocks. It will be more meaningful to the DC anyway. SWB has said WWE was written for the people who needed the WTM instructions fleshed out for them.

 

What I meant in that last paragraph was literature. And my kids don't realize they're doing formal narrations, because it looks like simply discussing the material with mom. I am constantly asking my children to tell me what they learned/read about/did in their various subjects, from the kindergartner to the high schooler, and ask more questions until I'm satisfied that they covered it well. In 2nd grade I expect less detailed descriptions of their lit than their history and science. Non-fiction is just easier to learn those beginning skills with.

 

*I* would drop the Abeka readers unless you think he should still be reading aloud daily for instruction purposes. If that is the case, I'd get history books and literature a little under his level for his quiet reading time.

 

Thank you! I'm really not sure what to do on the ABeka readers. I do think he needs to read aloud to me daily at this point, but I am not convinced that it has to be the ABeka readers. I just feel safer with them. He tends to skip words or guess based on beginnings and ends, so if he reads aloud to me, I can help him stop and read it correctly. Sometimes I have him track with his finger, and I continually remind him to read "carefully," because he just seems to want to go faster and get done. He doesn't seem to enjoy reading yet, though he does whatever I say. He's a compliant child, and I'm so glad. I feel like he makes a great guinea pig, but I need to figure out the "right" way on him, because ds2 isn't going to be as patient with my overdoing it!

 

Ds1 is also impatient with decoding bigger words with several syllables. The other day I pulled The Reluctant Dragon off the shelf while showing him some books he might read this year, and he had the hardest time, or rather, was very reluctant to figure out the word "reluctant," and needed help to read it. So I don't know how normal he is, but he's definitely not above average. I would really like to read more of the history stuff though; so I'd thought of doing half and half, and by the end of the year, transitioning completely out of the ABeka readers.

[lifesadream83]

Have you thought of a program like All about reading for him?  Or tried picking up some bob books?  Phonics Pathways is good too.  I would go with AAR myself. Teaching him to take words slowly etc.... It sounds like he needs more of that phonics time... The ordinary parents guide to teaching reading... Reading is hard but once they are fluent they will be good.  If you have an ereader the Mcguffy readers are free :)

[My3girls]

When there is overlap between FLL2 and WWE2, I go with WWE. I do not use the workbook just the parent guide. The girls narrate from whatever we read that day, and I pull copy work and dictation from their reading as well. We use Zane-Bloser for handwriting, and they are in ETC4. I try not to do more than 2 writing assignments in a day so I look ahead and stagger these as necessary. A typical week is like this:

 

Mon: ZB, WWE narration, ETC oral lesson & worksheets, FLL orally

Tues: ZB, WWE copy work, ETC oral lesson & worksheets

Wed: ZB, WWE dictation, ETC oral lesson & worksheets, FLL orally

Thurs: WWE narration and dictation, ETC writing

Fri: ZB, FLL copy work or dictation if in the lesson

[SorrelZG]

I notice you're using WWE2 this year. Are you using the workbook then?

I am currently using the workbook in part - I use the narration days to practice summarizing and then use those narrations for dictation. DS can already write his own two to three sentence narration from dictation; I'm just not entirely confident in my own summarizing skills so that is why I bought the WWE2 workbook this year. On other days I have him do copy work from a book book he is reading or something we're reading in school - a well written short paragraph from literature usually. For second grade (so far) DS has read and explored and watched documentaries for history and science and we've talked a lot and looked stuff up but we haven't done any output aside from discussion. We haven't had extra writing for spelling or grammar or penmanship programs because he's been covering those through his copy work and dictation.

 

I'm making plans to do TWTM style notebooks next year and a grammar program and I'm debating about WWE3. If I can get confident in my own summarizing skill I think I'll feel fine going without it and just working on those grammar stage skills (continuing to narrate, summarize, write from dictation) through the notebook work and continue copy work of quality writing examples, also. If I do get it, I will just have to judge what to do or skip day to day based on my knowledge of my own child (and myself - I have limits too :) ).