TOG or History Odyssey

[jenniferlee]

OK, I know this has been gone over before, but please help me out. What are the main differences between these programs? For the high school level mainly. I'm going to just use SOTW for the younger kids.

I'm having such a hard time making a decision and I need to, right away.

 

thank you thank you

 

Jen

[pereztribe]

:bigear:

[Candid]

It might be helpful to know what you are looking for. I think different programs work for different folks.

[jenniferlee]

OK

I need structure for my oldest 2. Assignments all laid out etc. I just don't have time to figure it out for them since I have three younger kids to teach as well.

Writing assignments etc., and some kind of evaluations that I can use to keep up. My oldest, especially, is not academically motivated and she needs something really straightforward. She won't take initiative on her own.

 

Also it would be nice to keep all 5 of them sort of in the same place in terms of what we are covering.

 

I am nervous about the amount of "God's hand in history" type of material that TOG seems to include. We are Christians but I don't take that approach and i don't know how much I can filter out - especially at the upper levels. I mean, it would be good for discussion I guess, but I'm wondering if History Odyssey would be better since it is secular.

 

But TOG looks like a more complete program - I don't want to shortchange the kids or pick something that would not serve us as well just because of the worldview issues. But I also don't want to be second guessing the material all the time.

 

So that's where I'm at.

 

Jen

[cbhrbooth]

I don't have any experience with History Odyssey, but 5 years with TOG Rhetoric. I've tried to address your points below one-by-one.

 

1)Assignments are all laid out. TOG is extremely well organized.

 

2)Writing assignments (Writing Aids) are layered in each week so the assignments are not burdensome, but grow the skills each week. Essays are built off of history assignments which is a nice tie-in.

 

3)Evaluations are good, and can be manipulated to whatever level you need them to be. (Just multiple choice/just essay/combination of both)

 

4)TOG is straightforward BUT if you are describing a school day with your daughter doing all the reading without weekly discussions with you I think you and she will be disappointed. The discussions are the gold nuggets of TOG. I would be hesitant to expect a student to tackle the reading, absorb the material, without those discussions. The reading is not easy-peasy, but you can scale her assignments (in-depth or broad) to her abilities. Keeping it as light or heavy a requirement as you feel is necessary.

 

5)"She won't take initiative on her own." TOG has clear directions, questions, but as I mentioned in #4, the discussions are really where the learning is done. Getting a student to think through some of the open-ended questions is part of TOG, and would be a challenge for any student going it alone.

 

6) TOG's Christian focus comes through, but they are even-handed about exploring other religions, worldviews, and opinions. A friend (marginally atheist) used TOG b/c she liked the rigor of the curriculum, and even the fact that there was a cohesive message, and she never complained about the highly Christianized viewpoint. At the rhetoric level, TOG encourages students to think through their opinions, not to accept a viewpoint unchallenged. So, I think this may be less of an issue than you imagine.

 

7) TOG is a complete program. One reason we have enjoyed it is that we find the unity satisfying because it addresses a person's need for meaning in history.

 

You didn't ask, but I'll volunteer this information:

a) TOG taught me to be a better teacher: more organized, focused, and deliberate. However, it can be overwhelming. If you plan to spend some time explaining how to use the curriculum with your daughter, then she will be better served. Although she will be looking ONLY at one thread (History), it takes time to get adjusted to how the curriculum is laid out.

 

b) Since you mentioned your time will be focused on younger children, I thought I'd include how much time I spend on Rhetoric History/Geography:

 

Once a week, I spend time making copies of assignments, maps, and evaluations. (15-30 minutes a week) I schedule 1 - 1 1/2 hrs a week for our History discussions. Sometimes we are through in 30 minutes, sometimes we use every second. Just depends. I rarely read beyond the Teacher's notes and Teacher script. (What that means is that I don't try to read the student's assignments. Some moms do.) We do Geography (maps) (as part of her History credit) together, but it is very laid back. My student pulls out an atlas we look at it together and discuss the questions for 5-15 minutes, usually on a Monday. Then I let her use my Teacher's map to accurately draw her map. She brings her map to our History discussion (usually on Thursday) and we refer to the maps throughout so she gets a good idea of the places under discussion. I spend about 20-30 minutes a week creating Quizlet cards for Dates and People. I require my student to review those daily and then she tests on it through Quizlet. (I do not require a Timeline.) (Many of my TOG friends' ignore this part of the History program, without a loss to their students. It is just a habit with us.) The evaluations take 10-30 minutes to complete, and I grade them in 5-10 minutes. At the end of each Unit there is an exam. At the end of the year there is comprehensive exam (or you can offer a Unit 4 exam instead of a year exam).

 

++++++

 

I can't recommend TOG over History Odyssey but I hope I've given you some insight into TOG. It has been a worthwhile investment for our family.

 

Good luck with your choice!:001_smile:

 

 

 

 

OK

I need structure for my oldest 2. Assignments all laid out etc. I just don't have time to figure it out for them since I have three younger kids to teach as well.

Writing assignments etc., and some kind of evaluations that I can use to keep up. My oldest, especially, is not academically motivated and she needs something really straightforward. She won't take initiative on her own.

 

Also it would be nice to keep all 5 of them sort of in the same place in terms of what we are covering.

 

I am nervous about the amount of "God's hand in history" type of material that TOG seems to include. We are Christians but I don't take that approach and i don't know how much I can filter out - especially at the upper levels. I mean, it would be good for discussion I guess, but I'm wondering if History Odyssey would be better since it is secular.

 

But TOG looks like a more complete program - I don't want to shortchange the kids or pick something that would not serve us as well just because of the worldview issues. But I also don't want to be second guessing the material all the time.

 

So that's where I'm at.

 

Jen

[jenniferlee]

Thank you so much for your input. It is so valuable - especially the time involved - really gives me a sense of what I might need to put into it. I feel comfortable with leaving time for discussions. I just don't have the time to look through WTM, figure out which books to read, and come up with the assignments to go with them. And do discussions on top of that.

Thanks again for your time and thanks for your opinions about the worldview issue. I appreciate it!

 

Jen

[tarahillmom]

I also do TOG, but I do it secularly. We do not to the worldview portion, I have substituted/or crossed out some of the questions due to the religious slant. However it is very possible to do secularly or with an old world viewpoint. That being said, you have to be able to have time to have discussions and decide how much of TOG you are going to do. There is so much material you cannot possibly do it all. The is definitely a learning curve. That being said I love the books, the schedule, and the ideas for projects etc... I have looked at HO, but decided against because I didn't feel it was as rigorous. I have used Pandia Press's Science Odyssey and was happy with it. I would print out both of their free weeks and try them to see which you like best.

[cbhrbooth]

You're welcome! Glad you found it useful. :)

[Candid]

I think you've already gotten one faboulously complete answer from cbhrbooth. I'll only add that I would plan to spend 10 minutes with each older child working on planning their schedule. Get some kind of weekly planner for them and expect to guide them at first through deciding what to do when.

 

You'll also want to plan how much teacher time you'll need. I can't say enough about printing out anything you think you need in advance. I do everything over the summer, but I would say doing it before each unit would work as well.

 

You'll also need to plan that you will spend about a half an hour reading the yellow readings for mom that tell you about the history. For your older children you will also work with them doing an R or D level discussion. I never prepped for those when working with my own children. In a co-op setting I do a bit more prep since I have limited time and I want to make sure I hit the most important stuff.

 

Finally let's talk world view and church history. I'm pretty excited by some of the books used in the R levels. First, I think every Christian should read a good thorough church history. You may wish to substitute one from your faith, but I do encourage you one that covers everything. I have read http://www.amazon.com/The-Story-Christianity-Church-Present/dp/1565635221/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1345227618&sr=8-5&keywords=the+story+of+christianity which I feel is pretty even handed and probably best describe as secular in point of view. However, it is twice as long as the volume Tapestry uses so you may wish to use it only for your own knowledge.

 

Then I am absolutely salivating for the two books Tapestry uses in year 3 and 4. The Noll book on the theology of the Civil War is exciting. Noll is well respected and should present both sides of the theology in that conflict. I am less familar with the other book on modern evangelism movements, but if it is up to Tapestry standards it will be a great and thoughtful examination of forces shaping the modern protestant church.

 

This leaves the year one materials. I've recommended over and over again the book dealing with the Bible as literature. It is not easy, but it gives you tools to examine the Bible that you just don't find elsewhere. I will never read a Psalm the same again, same for the books of Songs and Revelation.

 

The other materials are strong as well.