Studied dictation and the WTM

[joyfulhomeschooler]

While looking over samples of FLL & WWE I noticed that the dictation isn't looked at first by the child. When we did dictation last year with PLL my son would first look at the passage to be dictated to pick out any words he thought would be hard for him to spell. This really helped him and he did very well with it.

What is the WTM's opinion on this?

Couldn't I use FLL and just do studied dictation for the dictation?

[Walking-Iris]

I've just started to get our feet wet using the WWE text and the WTM book. My ds did okay with his first dictations. I just wanted to chime in that I love your idea of letting them read it and then do the dictation. And build the skill from there.

 

My ds did a year 2 dictation from Peter Pan.

 

I read the sentence: At the same moment the bird fluttered down upon the hat and once more sat snugly on her eggs.

 

I repeated it a couple times and he tried to repeat it---but then he wrote it like this: At the same moment, the bird fluttered down to the hat and sat snuggly on her eggs.

 

I'm going to be honest here--except teaching him to memorize a sentence verbatim from Peter Pan, I am still not getting the point of the exercise??? I talked about the meaning and spelling of the word snugly. But otherwise he was a bit confused why the sentence he wrote needed any correction.

 

I've read the sections about dictation again, but still don't understand the importance of it....except as an interesting mental exercise. Why exactly is it deemed so important to memorize these things? And how in the world do you explain the supposed importance of them to a child wondering what the point of it is himself?

 

(and yes I've listened to swb's writing lecture)

[ErinE]

While looking over samples of FLL & WWE I noticed that the dictation isn't looked at first by the child. When we did dictation last year with PLL my son would first look at the passage to be dictated to pick out any words he thought would be hard for him to spell. This really helped him and he did very well with it.

What is the WTM's opinion on this?

 

In the WWE instructor's text, dictation begins using the previous day's copywork so the child has seen and copied the sentence previously.

 

I've read the sections about dictation again, but still don't understand the importance of it....except as an interesting mental exercise. Why exactly is it deemed so important to memorize these things? And how in the world do you explain the supposed importance of them to a child wondering what the point of it is himself?

 

For my son, dictation takes the pressure off of coming up with his own words. When we were just narrating and dictating his words, he would want to change a word or rearrange the sentence. He would get fixated on rewriting, when I wanted him to concentrate on putting thoughts to paper. Dictation stops the editing; it also allows him to focus on his writing conventions. I tell him when to listen for punctuation and the finished product lets me check his spelling skills. Ds is a very good speller, but he has a tendency to misspell words like snugly or field.

[joyfulhomeschooler]

In the WWE instructor's text, dictation begins using the previous day's copywork so the child has seen and copied the sentence previously.

 

Is this so for FLL's dictation as well?

 

For my son, dictation takes the pressure off of coming up with his own words. When we were just narrating and dictating his words, he would want to change a word or rearrange the sentence. He would get fixated on rewriting, when I wanted him to concentrate on putting thoughts to paper. Dictation stops the editing; it also allows him to focus on his writing conventions. I tell him when to listen for punctuation and the finished product lets me check his spelling skills. Ds is a very good speller, but he has a tendency to misspell words like snugly or field.

 

I think dictation is a really good way of learning correct writing. I just think my children would do better with being able study the passage first. At least at the first, second, and possibly even third grade levels.

[ErinE]

I think dictation is a really good way of learning correct writing. I just think my children would do better with being able study the passage first. At least at the first, second, and possibly even third grade levels.

 

I don't use FLL's dictation and narration lessons; we skip those as my kids write every day using WWE and WTM principles. For the lower grades, I definitely think studying the sentence first helps with writing. My son is nine and a very good reader so we no longer study the sentence. If there's no new punctuation, I read the dictation sentence to my son one time and ask him if he's uncertain about spelling any words. If he indicates he needs help, I spell the word for him, then have him spell it back to me before completing the dictation exercise. For new punctuation, I copy SWB's lesson with her youngest son; I tell my son there's a comma, hypen, semi-colon, etc. and encourage him to raise his hand when he thinks he hears it.

[threedogfarm]

Susan Wise Bauer explains the whole process really well in her lecture. It's available from on the Peace Hill Press website for $3.99 I think. After listening to it, I felt like I finally had a good grasp on teaching the whole writing process. I really enjoyed her lecture on teaching science as well.

[boscopup]

The purpose of the dictation is to teach them to hold an entire thought in their head while writing. It is breaking down the writing process into separate pieces. Copywork gets them putting words on paper. Dictation gets them holding a thought in their head. Oral narration gets them coming up with good thoughts. When you put them all together, the child is eventually able to come up with a good thought, hold it in their head long enough to write it down, and physically write the words "with ease".

 

I do let my son see the dictation. We're in WWE2, where the dictation was copywork the previous day. For dictation of his oral narration (one sentence only right now), I let him look at it on the computer, and we discuss any words that might be tricky. In fact, just the other day, he was to write from his own oral narration, "Paul Revere saw two lanterns at the old North Church." We discussed the spellings of each word that I thought he'd have issues with. He noticed the pattern of 'e' being every other letter in 'Revere'. :D When he went to write it, he actually wrote it "with ease" :001_huh:, and the one word he misspelled was "Church" (he put "Chirch") because that was the one word for which I didn't think to point out the spelling. :lol:

 

So my kid isn't "studying" the dictation per se, but he also isn't doing dictation cold without ever seeing it. Also, CM style studied dictation has a different purpose. SWB style dictation isn't meant to work on spelling. You're supposed to help with spelling if they need it during the dictation (yes, I was a bad mom and wasn't watching while he wrote "Chirch" :tongue_smilie:).

 

Watch the YouTube videos of

to see how much SWB actually does with dictation.

[joyfulhomeschooler]

The purpose of the dictation is to teach them to hold an entire thought in their head while writing. It is breaking down the writing process into separate pieces. Copywork gets them putting words on paper. Dictation gets them holding a thought in their head. Oral narration gets them coming up with good thoughts. When you put them all together, the child is eventually able to come up with a good thought, hold it in their head long enough to write it down, and physically write the words "with ease".

 

I do let my son see the dictation. We're in WWE2, where the dictation was copywork the previous day. For dictation of his oral narration (one sentence only right now), I let him look at it on the computer, and we discuss any words that might be tricky. In fact, just the other day, he was to write from his own oral narration, "Paul Revere saw two lanterns at the old North Church." We discussed the spellings of each word that I thought he'd have issues with. He noticed the pattern of 'e' being every other letter in 'Revere'. :D When he went to write it, he actually wrote it "with ease" :001_huh:, and the one word he misspelled was "Church" (he put "Chirch") because that was the one word for which I didn't think to point out the spelling. :lol:

 

So my kid isn't "studying" the dictation per se, but he also isn't doing dictation cold without ever seeing it. Also, CM style studied dictation has a different purpose. SWB style dictation isn't meant to work on spelling. You're supposed to help with spelling if they need it during the dictation (yes, I was a bad mom and wasn't watching while he wrote "Chirch" :tongue_smilie:).

 

Watch the YouTube videos of

to see how much SWB actually does with dictation.

The video was very helpful. I always assumed she would be stricter and more rigid lol Glad to now she is human like the restof us. I didn't even know you could watch WTM video's on youtube. Thanks!