Please help me with math!!

[SunnyDays]

I would love your help figuring out which math to use for my son. I'll apologize in advance for the length of this!!

 

This is our first year HSing DS9, who is technically a 3rd grader. He is a very mathy kid... his 2nd grade teacher told us she can't remember meeting a kid who thinks so easily in such mathematical terms.

 

 

When we first started, we got 3rd grade LifePac math. I now realize LP isn't that strong of a math program, and he worked through it at about double speed... we finished it up the first week of February.

 

 

I looked at some options, and went with Abeka for the next level... we just weren't crazy about it. It's a good program, but for DS, the pages were far too busy, the print too small, and far too much jumping around (some instruction, a row of problems, a couple word problems, some addition facts, a couple more word problems... and so on).

 

 

So we looked around a little more, and kept hearing wonderful things about how good Singapore is for "mathy" or gifted kids. So we did the placement test, started back with 3A to hit more mental math, and ordered it.

 

 

Believe it or not, it's a total flop here. DS is a very conceptual thinker... he instinctively "gets" place value, regrouping and things like that, very little explanation needed. I think the problem is that Singapore is trying to teach in a way contrary to what he instinctively does. (Example: adding 16 to another two digit number, you add the 10, then the 6. And show it in a row of boxes. DS told me he doesn't need the boxes, he gets what they're trying to do, but he can do it faster without taking all those steps so what's the point?!?) I'm not saying SM's methods might not be better than his... just that it goes against his natural thought process and I'd rather work with it than against it. Does that make sense at all?? A poster here the other day was talking about how by the time you explain all the pictorials, break everything down into place value, get out your manipulatives... your kid has already solved the problem and moved on. It's just like that.

 

 

So... I'm back at square one. Now what?!? We'd like something that isn't heavily scripted... I of course work with him on new concepts, but neither of us wants a program where I have to present an entire lesson using manipulatives and a whiteboard every day. We're looking at CLE... it's supposed to be a strong math program, where we can do drill each day but then DS can work fairly independently, and at his pace. (It appeals to us because even though we didn't like the content of LP's, we liked the selfpaced worktext with instructions included right on the pages.) I'm also wondering if I should just go with Saxon, since that seems to be the gold standard, LOL... but I keep hearing how "drill and kill" that one is and I think we'd both want to throw it out the window too.

 

 

Thoughts? What are some things we can look at? Would CLE be worth a try for us? Am I totally off my rocker and far too picky, LOL? My thought is that I'd rather go through several rounds of this *now* to find something that will work for DS for several years, and we'll just be able to stick to it.

 

 

Would appreciate some feedback... thanks so much!! :grouphug:

[Spy Car]

At least check out the soon to be released third grade level of Beast Academy from the folks at Art of Problem Solving.

 

Bill

[chepyl]

Did ypu have him in too easy a level of SM? You said you did 3a for the mental math, bit it sounds like he does not need help with that. Skip the HIG and manipulatives if he.gets it, just let him do the problems until he needs.help.

 

You could also try MM. I have not used it, bit heard good things. It will be cheaper too, since you are buying a fourth program for the year.

[SunnyDays]

Cheryl, I did wonder if it's just too easy... he just doesn't seem to mesh with the style though. I really thought he'd like the pictorial concepts... but who knows, maybe he would in a different topic area. He did seem to enjoy sample problems with patterns and "logic" type exercises. I don't know, maybe before we buy anything else, we can try another chapter and skip over some of the mental math. I guess I was concerned that if he doesn't buy into "their style" of mental math, the whole program may be rough for him??

 

Bill, I do like the look of Beast Academy... I wonder if it would work better as a supplement than a whole program though? I just can't tell from the few sample pages they have. Also, does anyone know exactly when the program will be out and what the cost may be? And when they expect to have the next levels ready?

 

Thanks... please keep any thoughts coming!!

[ErinE]

If your son already understands the concepts of mental math (when adding 16, adding ten then six), skip those sections or ask for a few problems to be done, then move on. Your son doesn't have to do every problem in the workbook.

 

If you like the instruction text within the workbook, I'd recommend Math Mammoth. The curriculum is very reasonably priced and it's similar to Singapore as it focuses on concepts.

 

Finally, add in math challenges. You want to enhance your son's problem solving abilities. He may be able to pick up concepts quickly, but can he "play" with them? There was post recently about teaching math in three parts: 1) memorizing facts, 2) learning on-level, and 3) stretching the brain. Zaccaro is great, as are SM's Challenging Word Problems and Intensive Practice. Beast Academy is coming out soon, although we haven't heard about pricing. Add in any of these supplements to keep expanding his understanding.

[Spy Car]

Bill, I do like the look of Beast Academy... I wonder if it would work better as a supplement than a whole program though? I just can't tell from the few sample pages they have. Also, does anyone know exactly when the program will be out and what the cost may be? And when they expect to have the next levels ready?

 

We got the sample chapter on Area and Perimeter and it was pretty deep. I expect the time demands of BA will be steep, and I suspect the price may be as well. the release date of 4th Grade appears to be slipping (to my consternation). Your son may be a little on the old-ish side. But the sample was quite challenging and interesting.

 

Not a lot of hard answers, I'm afraid.

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

I can second Erin's recommendation of Ed Zaccaro as a great supplement.

 

Bill

[danybug]

My ds sounded very similar to yours when we pulled him out of public school in 1st grade. I started with Singapore and we blew through and ended up ahead of grade level. I knew that I did not want to use Singapore for middle and high school, so this year I decided to switch to Saxon (after reading through WTM recommendations). He tested ahead, but I pulled him back so that he could get a good foundation in the transition.

 

Ds and I are thrilled with Saxon. He did not care for Singapore. For the most part he works pretty independent on all the work, because he has such strong math abilities. I think Saxon is definitely worth considering.

[SunnyDays]

Thank you everyone, for your feedback. I've been mulling this over all afternoon.

 

I don't want to be too hasty, and I have considered whether it's too easy of a level for him... perhaps we didn't get the placement quite right. We did do placement testing, and he was right between 3A/3B. Even with the placement, I'm surprised at how much of this is review for him. I'm still not entirely sure it meshes with his learning style though.

 

Danielle, that's one other thing I've been considering... I don't know that I'll want to use Singapore for the upper grades, so do I really want to get him used to this "style" for just a couple years?? I don't know.

 

These are great ideas, and I do feel better after hearing from all of you. Especially on the enrichment pieces... we use LOF now and he loves them, and I might try some of your other suggestions. I could definitely see supplementing with Zaccaro or Beast Academy. My DS would be thrilled to learn math from comic books. ;)

 

I may do this: Just work through the 3A Textbook, since I already have it sitting here. Read it together at an accelerated pace, have him do the exercises at the end of each chapter to check that he does know the material. Skip the workbook altogether at this point, and just stop if we hit something he needs to review or learn. I might also review the placement tests... depending on what that tells me, I may do the same with 3B, just work through the textbook together quickly and stop when we get to a point of new content.

 

Thoughts?? I'm a little afraid of missing something, or moving on too quickly. But I think going through at least 3A like that will tell us whether the program is a good fit but just not the right level, or whether it's really not going to work out.

[ErinE]

I think you have the right idea in working with him at an accelerated pace. If you have 3B, fractions and area are the biggies coming up, but easy to understand if your child easily grasps new math concepts.

 

I would recommend you work with him on his multiplication facts. Games, puzzles, online apps, whatever it takes for him to get a good understanding of them before he finishes the 3-level sequence. Not completely memorized, but able to derive the answer in a reasonable amount of time. In my personal opinion, SM3B was easier than 3A, but we've moved into 4A and I feel my son knowing his multiplication facts has greatly helped him.

[kbpaulie]

I haven't read all the posts, but the OP's son sounds like mine. We've actually found SM to be a great fit. We use NO MANIPULATIVES. I don't use the HIG to teach it b/c he mostly just gets it and find that it complicates things. There are those times where he can get frustrated b/c it breaks it into more steps than he needs - at this point we have options:

1) We still do it b/c it's important and good to know how to do it

2) Skip the way they do it an move into the next lesson or a couple later where they usually have you doing it in 1 step rather than multiple steps

 

I think the program is great. My child is a natural math thinker and SM has reinforced it, but he does it his own way, not always a "SM Way".

 

Good luck!