If you have used R&S English 8, or are using it and are up to/past ch.3...

[cheryl h]

So I read the lesson about inserting dashes and ellipses. Seems very practical. You use them when YOU are writing to imply something is missing. Here is my gripe...(ha)the ch.3 test has several sentences that you are supposed to figure out where the ellipses are supposed to be, but they have used sentences that make it nearly impossible to figure it out because as read they could be percieved differently. Other than using the ellipses to infere missing words in a direct quote, I always assumed that it is a stylistic tool used by the author of a sentence, etc. for emphasis and style. HOW CAN YOU TELL WHERE TO PUT THE STUPID ELLIPSES...if you are not the author of said sentence. I find this infuriating and annoying. Please help.

[Colleen in NS]

So I read the lesson about inserting dashes and ellipses. Seems very practical. You use them when YOU are writing to imply something is missing. Here is my gripe...(ha)the ch.3 test has several sentences that you are supposed to figure out where the ellipses are supposed to be, but they have used sentences that make it nearly impossible to figure it out because as read they could be percieved differently. Other than using the ellipses to infere missing words in a direct quote, I always assumed that it is a stylistic tool used by the author of a sentence, etc. for emphasis and style. HOW CAN YOU TELL WHERE TO PUT THE STUPID ELLIPSES...if you are not the author of said sentence. I find this infuriating and annoying. Please help.

 

LOL!! I agree. It's kind of pointless to try to read the author's mind, isn't it. We don't do the tests, but I did find that ellipses points were expected within Bible verses in the lesson exercises, and if we weren't familiar with the verses, we didn't know where they went. I could have made my son leaf through his Bible to find them, but why bother. It seemed to me to be an incomplete exercise without seeing the original sentences. So we skipped over the less obvious examples. I figure my son knows the use for ellipses points, so I was content with that. With that said, I am open to correction in my thinking about the way R&S has the exercises set up. But as of this posting, I can't see the point right now. I'm curious though, about ideas people have about drilling this concept.

[cheryl h]

Colleen,

 

I am so glad that 1) you understood what I meant. I was afraid I was not getting my point across clearly and sounded like a dope. 2) you agree. You always have great advise concerning the use of R&S and am so glad you posted. It's a weird lesson...(ha)this use of ellipses. Dd13 didn't do fabulous on the ch.3 test, but the section on ellipses through me into a tail spin. I am little by little learning to weedout what is and isn't important in our curriculae, and learning to relax and not sweat what doesn't make sense. For instance...(ha!ha!)Ellipses. But like you said, if there is anyone who has a better defense of the use of ellipses the way R&S has it laid out...I am all :bigear:. I will TRY to stop using ellipses now.:lol:

[Jeanine in TX]

Ellipses and dashes can be tedious; but take heart. We are using R & S Grammar 9. Except for some editing sheets, they really are not mentioned.

 

In homework and tests, R & S typically uses ellipses to indicate obviously missing information. Dashes are especially used with inserted exclamatory statements or declarative statements that abruptly stop.

 

 

I am looking at Test 3 from R & S Grammar 8.

 

I only saw one sentence that needed ellipsis points: #23 from Part C.

The sentence ended with the word "so". Just prior to it the sentence is saying that father told the children not to do something. To me the "so" could mean that they listened to Father or they secretly did what he told them not to do. The reader is left to wonder what happened. In this case the ellipsis points are appropriate because more info could obviously be written in this sentence.

 

Numbers 36 and 37 of Part F need dashes.

In 36, an exclamatory statement has been inserted in the middle of the declarative statement. In 37, a boy quickly stops speaking when he notices his father's displeasure.

[Colleen in NS]

Colleen,

 

I am so glad that 1) you understood what I meant. I was afraid I was not getting my point across clearly and sounded like a dope. 2) you agree. You always have great advise concerning the use of R&S and am so glad you posted. It's a weird lesson...(ha)this use of ellipses. Dd13 didn't do fabulous on the ch.3 test, but the section on ellipses through me into a tail spin. I am little by little learning to weedout what is and isn't important in our curriculae, and learning to relax and not sweat what doesn't make sense. For instance...(ha!ha!)Ellipses. But like you said, if there is anyone who has a better defense of the use of ellipses the way R&S has it laid out...I am all :bigear:. I will TRY to stop using ellipses now.:lol:

 

You know what? I'd have been suspicious of the ch. 3 test section that mentioned ellipses points. :lol:

 

I have the tests in my TM, so I looked at the ch. 3 test. And then I looked through the actual ellipsis points exercises in ch. 3, as well as the oral review questions in the TM. I found one set of exercises where the student was to write the beginning and end words of sentences, and write ellipsis points between them. I guess that was so students could kinesthetically practice using them. Some of the oral review questions just questioned when you use them. And there was one (p. 168, #1 in section E) sentence that required ellipsis points, and that is the example I was thinking of previously. It's a Bible verse, and grammatically it is a complete sentence (no missing words/parts) without ellipsis points. So after the experience of trying to figure that out, and looking at the ch. 3 test, I can see why the test would have sent you into a tailspin. If I were my son, and taking that test after having that one exercise with the Bible verse, I'd have been suspicious of the test, lol! (I told him the answer to the Bible verse one, BTW - there's just no way, unless you are a Bible scholar as well as grammar student, that you could come up with the "right" answer on that one - made the test seem untrustworthy, in a way, to me)

 

I think ellipsis points are simpler to use than we think they are.

 

Ellipses and dashes can be tedious; but take heart. We are using R & S Grammar 9. Except for some editing sheets, they really are not mentioned.

 

This is a relief! And that's funny about being tedious. Every time we come to the punctuation chapters/punctuation review exercises in the R&S books, we groan. We know they are totally necessary, and I get a kick out of learning new punctuation concepts because they really do make communication clearer. It's just. so. tedious to go through the exercises, though. :D

 

I only saw one sentence that needed ellipsis points: #23 from Part C.

The sentence ended with the word "so". Just prior to it the sentence is saying that father told the children not to do something. To me the "so" could mean that they listened to Father or they secretly did what he told them not to do. The reader is left to wonder what happened. In this case the ellipsis points are appropriate because more info could obviously be written in this sentence.

 

This one totally makes sense to me. It's just that previous Bible verse example that would have made me suspicious of the test. I would have been looking for not-so-obvious places to insert ellipsis points in the other sentences.

 

It seems to me that the only way to really "practice" ellipsis points is to tell what they are used for, give sentences, tell the student what info. to leave out, and then have the student to write it properly. And then to incorporate it somehow into writing lessons.

[Testimony]

I did not give the chapter 3 test that week!:smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5:

 

We are almost done with Rod and Staff 8. We are doing the completing grammar in a semester thing. The purpose of this is to focus on writing and incorporating what you learned from the grammar. He started his writing program and he started to incorporate some stuff from Rod and Staff and Essay Voyage.

 

Don't sweat the ellipses! I only used it when I wrote a play.

 

Blessings,

Karen

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony

[cheryl h]

I was so upset about how badly the test went, that the ellipses were what broke the camels back and I may have gotten a little too excited about it. I have been trying to streamline how we use R&S by reading the lesson, doing some oral excercises, but not always doing the written or review. We have been doing the worksheets mostly, and if there isn't a worksheet, then we do written excercises. This has helped me weed out the writing assignments so we can focus our writing efforts on our IEW materials. This method worked great for the first two chapters, but not so much for the third. We have done the first couple of lessons of chapter 4 and there is good review(so far) of chapter 3 concepts in the review, so I have been having her do them.

 

For those that use R&S and don't do every assignment/test...how do you streamline? What are your reasons for how you do it? Mine is time. I need more time to spend doing IEW, more time teaching other kids, and other subjects. It seemed like doing the worksheets would be hitting on most of the important stuff, but I might be wrong. How do you do it?

[Colleen in NS]

For those that use R&S and don't do every assignment/test...how do you streamline? What are your reasons for how you do it? Mine is time. I need more time to spend doing IEW, more time teaching other kids, and other subjects. It seemed like doing the worksheets would be hitting on most of the important stuff, but I might be wrong. How do you do it?

 

I streamline, and it's because of time, too.

 

I don't have the worksheets. I ask ds the oral review questions in the TM. Then we each read the lesson silently. Then we talk about anything we don't understand. Then I look through the class practice exercises, and compare them to the written exercises. If what's in the c.p. is repeated in the w.p. ones, we do the written practice exercises. But sometimes we do some of the class practice, if what's in them is NOT in the written ones. That way we hit every kind of practice of the new concept. I usually have my son do every exercise in each set I assign. But, we try to do as much orally as possible. I have tried to think of reasons to have him do them written, but I can't think of any. Even things like punctuation - all of that gets practiced in his writing assignments, so I think we are doing alright by just doing the actual grammar/punctuation exercises orally. The only thing from the grammar book he writes out is sentence diagrams. I want him to thoroughly know how to do this, so he can apply this skill to his writing (if he needs to correct a grammatical error in his writing). So all in all, doing the entire grammar lesson each day doesn't take long at all. Maybe 15-20 minutes. And then a few sentence diagrams here and there. He is retaining his knowledge and applying it to writing, so the method has worked well here. It seems to be working with my daughter, too.

 

I know others don't have their kids do all the exercises in each set, but I am paranoid, so we do. :D Doing it orally, though, dramatically helps to cut down on time.

[Testimony]

For those that use R&S and don't do every assignment/test...how do you streamline? What are your reasons for how you do it? Mine is time. I need more time to spend doing IEW, more time teaching other kids, and other subjects. It seemed like doing the worksheets would be hitting on most of the important stuff, but I might be wrong. How do you do it?

 

I do streamline. However, just to tell you, I do every worksheet. I do the exercises if I see that he is stuck on a topic. I am concerned about him applying what he learns not just learning it. So, I too am more interested in moving him along so that we can do more writing. I want him to start to try to focus on how to apply the grammar to the writing not just doing it.

Blessings,

Karen

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony

[Colleen in NS]

:lol:

 

So ds and I did lesson 51 in R&S 8 today. Review Part B exercises have ellipsis points exercises in them. Basically, there are Bible verses (with references, so you can look them up and find the missing words), and then there are sentences in which it's obvious where to put the ellipsis points.

 

Just thought you'd like to know. There is no guessing the author's intent at all. :D