University of Pittsburgh - Medicine Day visit report

[creekland]

As promised, here are my thoughts and opinions concerning the University of Pittsburgh (Oakland - main - Campus) as per our visit yesterday with the "So You Want To Be A Doctor/Medicine" day special event.

 

The University of Pittsburgh calls themselves a medium sized school in their Welcome spiel, but I consider them a large research university as they have 17,000 undergrads, then more when you add grad students. Seventy percent of the students come from within the state of PA. The other thirty percent come from all 50 states and many foreign countries (they didn't say how many).

 

Pitt is an urban campus with city streets running right through campus and buildings around the streets. It is located right next to Carnegie Mellon U and Carlow (college, I think). There are nine colleges and universities located in Pittsburgh and students at Pitt can take up to 18 credits at any of them for Pitt's tuition if the similar class is not offered at Pitt. Students get a free city bus pass and entrance into several city offerings for free or at reduced cost. Sports are BIG here. We were told if you weren't a sports fan when you arrived, you would be when you graduated. Greek is not huge - just 8.5% of students choose to go greek. There are ample city life entertainments from restaurants to bars to sports to museums, plus, the college offers entertainment options from important speakers to "fun" events. Suffice it to say, there's plenty to do inexpensively - one wouldn't get bored.

 

On paper this seemed to be an excellent possibility for middle son, a pre-med wannabe with rather high stats, to consider as the U is highly recommended among professionals we have talked with and recommendations we've seen online. One of the reasons is the possibility for merit aid.

 

Merit aid - this consists of awards ranging from $2000/year up to total free rides. To be considered one has to have a minimum of 1450 (M/CR only) on the SAT or a 33 on the ACT. These are neat stats to have as I never did find them online. They showed them to us in a slide presentation. Aid is not automatic. It is highly competitive AND tends to be offered more to out of state students to attract the diversity they want rather than in state students (this last statement is hearsay, but I believe it). I can also see where it is simply just more competitive among in state students due to the sheer numbers who apply. They want to see rigorous classes, a very high GPA and nice extra curriculars.

 

They also offer 8 - 12 spots per year to a few select students to go directly into their Top 15 med school upon graduation. A 3.75 average must be maintained throughout college to keep this. To get this one has to have a very high ACT/SAT - a 4.0 or equivalent GPA - and have demonstrated some research and experience dictating WHY they KNOW they want to be a doctor at such a young age (extensive shadowing or actual work in something medical, etc). These spots are extremely competitive to get.

 

Need based aid is also not automatic. They only require the FAFSA, but then only meet about 70% of aid on average. I don't know if that average is per person, or overall (some get a bit, some get none). That said, they are less expensive to start with than the vast majority of private schools and attract more than 22,000 applicants every year - accepting roughly 13,000 of them, and matriculating roughly 3500. (Sorry, exact numbers didn't stay in my brain.)

 

Pre-med wise... all students MCAT, GPA, and everything else goes by committee who rank them and assign them 1 of 7 numbers as to likelihood to get into med school. Of their top 3 categories, a total of 82% are successful. They never would say the percentage who made it into the top three categories nor the percentage of success from those in the bottom 4. They do show a small favoritism to their own students when admitting into their own med school.

 

Med school wise... they WILL accept all AP credits that an undergrad institution accepts - and likewise, Pitt undergrad will accept all a student wants to transfer (along with cc credits) - even Bio and Chem. HOWEVER, they told us that MANY med schools do NOT accept those credits (esp Bio and Chem), so be certain you want to limit yourself to those that do if you bring in those credits. Many pre-meds choose not to.

 

The representative from their med school admissions also stopped a student mid question when the question started, "I've been told your undergraduate institution doesn't matter when applying to med school..." She flat out said, "That's not true. We keep a list of undergrad institutions and rate them all into categories. Pitt is in the selective (or competitive - I forgot which word she chose) group. The only one higher is very selective. When we look at med school applications we definitely screen them by group. Those in lower groups won't get an interview." PERSONAL NOTE: Pitt's med school is a top 15 research school and is super competitive to get into. A "basic" lower rated med school may not have the same procedure. I relay what she said as I know it can affect a few of us even though others may say it isn't true in reality or whatever. This lady is on the admissions board/committee/whatever for Pitt's med school and SHE said it. She's the same one who said they will accept AP credits if the undergrad does... another sometimes controversial topic.

 

Ok, personal thoughts. If I forgot anything about stats, feel free to ask.

 

Housing - looked great. They have single or double rooms, suites, safety is superb, size is average, ethernet is in all rooms, and NO bathrooms are co-ed. Out tour guide was surprised I asked that question and couldn't believe some schools allow that. Buildings are co-ed, sometimes by floor and sometimes by room if the rooms have their own bathrooms. Rooms with their own bathrooms must be 100% maintained/cleaned by the students. There are some specialty dorms kids can choose.

 

Dining - I wouldn't go there for the food - at least - not what they served us (freebie) yesterday. It's basic, institutional food. There are different options to choose from, but the flavor was basic IMO. Kids tell us that it gets better when more opens up in the fall. I hope so.

 

Every single student there that we saw (both working for the U and not) was happy and several told middle son to come there. I truly believe them. They seemed happy.

 

Classes are large, as expected with a U this size. Kids don't mind. Large classes are broken up into smaller sections that meet with a TA. Kids like this. You are, in effect, a number most of the time, but having gone to a large school myself, I understand that this is not always an issue. It's just fact. When you get involved in research or other similar type of thing, then you'll be known by someone. Higher level classes aren't as large, but it's still relative.

 

Their Honors College isn't really a separate entity. It's a designation that allows kids with a minimum of 32 ACT or 1400 (M/CR) SAT to take more in depth and smaller classes. IF a student wants to add a year to their education, they can get a B Phil degree through it by doing research and other things. Kids who have been in the Honors Classes really like them and they do have separate Honors housing one can choose, but they don't suggest taking all honors classes. They did not emphasize this much to us yesterday. We ended up asking our tour guide for more info. That surprised us on a "medicine" day.

 

They offer ample opportunities for academic assistance, BUT no one will tell the student they need to go there. The student needs to know to get help themselves when they need it.

 

Medical assistance is superb. It ought to be with a med school and 5 hospitals on campus!

 

Speaking of that, yes, there are 5 hospitals on campus and 1 more 10 minutes away. These are all owned by UPMC (University of Pittsburgh Medical Center). Pre-meds here will have awesome chances to shadow or volunteer - even get involved in the research. It's one of the best things about Pitt IMO. BUT, remember, they'll have to take the initiative to do this.

 

Research is available for freshmen starting 2nd semester. They have to be active to go sign up for it, but there's a place that helps them be matched with what they are looking for IF they go there and ask.

 

The Cathedral of Learning is STUNNING! It's ok outside, but inside, WOW! We didn't have time to go upstairs as we would have liked to have done.

 

Their bus tour of Pittsburgh can be skipped - esp since we didn't have ac on the bus!

 

As for the specific "Medicine Day" we were disappointed. They did their basic "Welcome Session" that you can probably get any day telling about the U in general. Then they had a panel of 4 med students NONE OF WHOM went to Pitt for undergrad. :confused: They told us about med school life. That's nice, but we're at the undergrad "why Pitt" level. Then they had the Q&A session with a pre-med advisor and the med school representative (I really liked her - she was no nonsense, but nice with her replies). This was nice, but not nearly as nice as other schools. Other schools had a slideshow answering FAQ, then took extra questions. Here, people had to come up with and ask the FAQ and it didn't get beyond that. At the end they had a representative talk about medical simulators in what seemed to be a sales pitch (why use simulators). Again, this would be appropriate if we were considering why to apply to Pitt's med school, but we're at the undergrad level. After this were the tours. Good thing it wasn't a super hot day!

 

End of Part 1

[creekland]

Had to finish here as it was too long - sorry! Guess I'm long winded this morning!

---

In the end, we know middle son will definitely apply to Pitt's med school if he still wants to be a doctor at the end of his undergrad years. Pitt will remain a safety school for us otherwise - and only a safety if he happens to get a decent merit aid award. We just were not impressed with the undergrad overall for pre-med. Being a number isn't his top choice. Sports aren't a big thing with him. For an urban school, he prefers Wash U's "bubble or island" rather than an open city environment. The big plus to Pitt are the onsite hospitals (which is why Pitt is more recommended for pre-med than Penn St). And we just weren't thrilled with the numbers - 82% of the top three groups. It seems like it should be higher since they are already limiting students into the groups. Kiddo has said he could go there and be happy - adapt an education for himself - so it remains a safety school (love thy safety as you might go there). But it's not his #1 choice unless significant $$ tips the scales. He admits he would love access to the hospitals and would probably be outgoing enough to land himself some nice research.

 

Later we'll be checking out Alabama, Furman, Case Western, and U of Rochester. Baylor may remain a possibility too. I THINK he's limited his list to these options (and Wash U + Pitt that we have already checked out in person).

 

Feel free to ask questions about anything I might have missed. I'm sure I didn't remember everything!

[Medstudent]

Had to finish here as it was too long - sorry! Guess I'm long winded this morning!

---

In the end, we know middle son will definitely apply to Pitt's med school if he still wants to be a doctor at the end of his undergrad years. Pitt will remain a safety school for us otherwise - and only a safety if he happens to get a decent merit aid award. We just were not impressed with the undergrad overall for pre-med. Being a number isn't his top choice. Sports aren't a big thing with him. For an urban school, he prefers Wash U's "bubble or island" rather than an open city environment. The big plus to Pitt are the onsite hospitals (which is why Pitt is more recommended for pre-med than Penn St). And we just weren't thrilled with the numbers - 82% of the top three groups. It seems like it should be higher since they are already limiting students into the groups. Kiddo has said he could go there and be happy - adapt an education for himself - so it remains a safety school (love thy safety as you might go there). But it's not his #1 choice unless significant $$ tips the scales. He admits he would love access to the hospitals and would probably be outgoing enough to land himself some nice research.

 

Later we'll be checking out Alabama, Furman, Case Western, and U of Rochester. Baylor may remain a possibility too. I THINK he's limited his list to these options (and Wash U + Pitt that we have already checked out in person).

 

Feel free to ask questions about anything I might have missed. I'm sure I didn't remember everything!

 

Not sure if you've considered this at all, but Vanderbilt would be a good choice too. I don't know much about the undergrad, but it has an early admission thing to the med school, it's very rigorous, and the hospitals are all on campus (30 second walk from the undergrad stuff). It's a super wealthy school so it wouldn't surprise me if they had a lot of undergrad merit aid- they certainly do for their medical school. About the same size as Wash U, though the med school is smaller.

 

Just a thought. Also, if he's not afraid of going far and his grades are high enough, he could look into Stanford. Fits those same requirements. Duke, too, though the med school has a bizarre curriculum.

[creekland]

Not sure if you've considered this at all, but Vanderbilt would be a good choice too. I don't know much about the undergrad, but it has an early admission thing to the med school, it's very rigorous, and the hospitals are all on campus (30 second walk from the undergrad stuff). It's a super wealthy school so it wouldn't surprise me if they had a lot of undergrad merit aid- they certainly do for their medical school. About the same size as Wash U, though the med school is smaller.

 

Just a thought. Also, if he's not afraid of going far and his grades are high enough, he could look into Stanford. Fits those same requirements. Duke, too, though the med school has a bizarre curriculum.

 

Middle son had Vanderbilt on his original list eons ago. It got cut due to "lifestyle" with the reports seeming to say kids tended to go greek and be wealthy + dressed up a bit. My guy doesn't want greek (truly, he doesn't, not "I" don't want him to). We're definitely not wealthy, and he's not fond of dressing up (shirt and tie) often.

 

Knowing the stereotypes aren't always true... I'm now pondering adding Vandy to our visit south this coming August - just so he can see for himself and make a judgment.

 

Stanford is too far away for us when there are several other schools suitable closer. Youngest might go to the U of Hawaii, but for a special aspect of Botany that isn't found many places (Ethnobotany concentration - in the tropics). Otherwise, I've kind of set an idea of "East of the Mississippi." For Wash U in St Louis, we plan to drop him off in East St Louis, IL and letting him swim (though I heard he can take the metrolink). ;) Baylor tends to be on and off based mainly on the distance. Our issue is balancing the distance with the potential for great financial aid due to diversity.

 

Duke isn't well known for aid from what I've seen. It was my number one choice eons ago and my family couldn't afford it then either even though I got in.

[Medstudent]

Middle son had Vanderbilt on his original list eons ago. It got cut due to "lifestyle" with the reports seeming to say kids tended to go greek and be wealthy + dressed up a bit. My guy doesn't want greek (truly, he doesn't, not "I" don't want him to). We're definitely not wealthy, and he's not fond of dressing up (shirt and tie) often.

 

Knowing the stereotypes aren't always true... I'm now pondering adding Vandy to our visit south this coming August - just so he can see for himself and make a judgment.

 

Stanford is too far away for us when there are several other schools suitable closer. Youngest might go to the U of Hawaii, but for a special aspect of Botany that isn't found many places (Ethnobotany concentration - in the tropics). Otherwise, I've kind of set an idea of "East of the Mississippi." For Wash U in St Louis, we plan to drop him off in East St Louis, IL and letting him swim (though I heard he can take the metrolink). ;) Baylor tends to be on and off based mainly on the distance. Our issue is balancing the distance with the potential for great financial aid due to diversity.

 

Duke isn't well known for aid from what I've seen. It was my number one choice eons ago and my family couldn't afford it then either even though I got in.

 

I believe the stereotypes you mentioned are true for the most part, but pre-meds and science people always seem to march to their own drums to some extent. It's true that it's a wealthy school and many of the students are wealthy- any private university will have a significant rich kid faction though, so I'd keep that in mind. Being in the South certainly means that the wealthy kids tend to also be of a conservative, proper, Christian slant which makes them a little more "preppy". This can be seen as good or bad. On the one hand, East Coast "rich kids" will often be the ones who'll purposefully dress kind of schlumpy and will adopt the "rebel without a cause" attitude, all the while spending daddy's money. I'd almost rather deal with the preppier Vandy students, it's less hypocritical imo. On the other hand, wealthier families generally lead to a healthier endowment and better merit/need aid, research funding, and all that good stuff.

 

Greek life is pretty common as a social outlet, but I don't know to what extent there's a pressure to go Greek. For what it's worth, most of the male Vandy grads I know weren't Greek. As for dressing up- I think that stereotype comes from the football game thing. The Vanderbilt students (not all, but this is the tradition anyway) dress up for Vandy football games- the men in khakhis and seersucker-type outfits and the women in sundresses. If you're not going to a football game, I imagine you can wear whatever you want. Fwiw, I think they have a similar tradition at Alabama, but I don't know that for sure.

[creekland]

Thanks for your thoughts on Vandy. I think we're going to see if we can fit it into our travel plans in August. Unfortunately, when we're traveling new students are arriving so it'll be kind of a weird time, but better than nothing I suppose. Once we see where he gets in we'll try to do second visits so he can see campuses in "operational" mode.

 

My current guess is Wash U, Case W, U of Rochester - and maybe Vandy - will be his top "fits."

 

These are guesses - except for Wash U. He'd drop it all and just go there if he could get in and we could afford it, BUT, he hasn't looked at some of the others yet. He just really enjoyed his visit and the opportunities mentioned there.

 

I think anything larger is going to be less personal. I suspect LACs won't have what he's looking for in large research opportunities. I may be mistaken. We're still going to check out Alabama and Furman too.

 

And, he realizes he might not make it into any of the places he prefers at a price we can afford... so we need to be checking out "our" second tier options where his stats will stand out more.

 

Does Vandy have undergrads hanging around the med school/hospital(s) a bit? (Volunteering, shadowing, getting exposure?)

[Medstudent]

Thanks for your thoughts on Vandy. I think we're going to see if we can fit it into our travel plans in August. Unfortunately, when we're traveling new students are arriving so it'll be kind of a weird time, but better than nothing I suppose. Once we see where he gets in we'll try to do second visits so he can see campuses in "operational" mode.

 

My current guess is Wash U, Case W, U of Rochester - and maybe Vandy - will be his top "fits."

 

These are guesses - except for Wash U. He'd drop it all and just go there if he could get in and we could afford it, BUT, he hasn't looked at some of the others yet. He just really enjoyed his visit and the opportunities mentioned there.

 

I think anything larger is going to be less personal. I suspect LACs won't have what he's looking for in large research opportunities. I may be mistaken. We're still going to check out Alabama and Furman too.

 

And, he realizes he might not make it into any of the places he prefers at a price we can afford... so we need to be checking out "our" second tier options where his stats will stand out more.

 

Does Vandy have undergrads hanging around the med school/hospital(s) a bit? (Volunteering, shadowing, getting exposure?)

 

 

Absolutely. Undergrads are encouraged to volunteer in the hospital, the free clinic (there's one there pretty much at every clinic day) and they work in the labs alongside med students, PhD students, etc. I'm a HUGE fan of med schools that are on the same campus as the hospitals and the undergrad campus. It's an incredibly nice way to learn. I know from my perspective, it's better to look for a research opportunity in a "niche" field when you have the power of an entire university backing you, rather than having a more piecey campus. My undergrad was in the same city as the med school/hospital but not on the same campus, and most of us couldn't get involved as much as we would have wanted to because with class schedules for premeds being as rigid as they were, it was impossible to go downtown just to move cell cultures from one place to another or something in the middle of the day. I volunteered at the hospital a couple of times, but again, it was a lot more complicated. Having a well-renowned hospital (and all its affiliates) literally 30 seconds away from my dorm would have made volunteering and shadowing and doing research about 100 times easier. Not to mention the fact that there are various mentorship opportunities between med students and pre-meds, and chances to get together and mingle occasionally and get a good glimpse into our lives, which you might not get otherwise. Undergrads are also welcome into the med school library, so the campus really is pretty unified.

 

Even if Vanderbilt itself is not a great fit, I'd look closely at places like it. I was a short subway ride away from our university hospital and I only went there maybe twice in all of undergrad. Had I had it within walking distance, things might have been very different.

[creekland]

Updating with our financial info regarding Pitt. Note that Pitt never got my guy's best ACT score due to the "major confusion" and "homeschooling letter" threads (look those up IF considering Pitt). Therefore, I don't think he got as much merit aid as he could have based upon others I've read about and their scores/merit aid.

 

However, Pitt with a combo of merit and need based aid (including basic loans offered to freshmen and work study) met our need 100%. They came down to our EFC (which is low this year - mid 4 digits). This is a school who doesn't always (or often) meet need, but evidently they do at times for higher stat kids. If the school interests you, they're worth a try. ;)

 

Note though, apply early and get financial info in early. Students at school who were hoping for merit aid and/or a nice package got neither. Their stats were also not as high as my guy. I'd say you want a minimum of 33 ACT for merit aid (which is what my guy's low score was that they got from a freebie fall of junior year - I'd planned on sending his spring of junior year score, but never got around to it due to the confusion at the time).

 

Pitt is still one of my guy's back up schools in spite of it all as they have a well-regarded neuroscience program, but my guy really prefers the University of Rochester (smaller school, nice campus, higher in the ranking w/a neuroscience program, top 5 in freshman retention stats, etc) and they've offered great finances, so that's where he's almost certainly headed. This update is for those who might feel Pitt is a good fit for them. Every student is different. ;)

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Out of curiosity, where did you find freshman retention stats?

[cupajoe]

I haven't been on the boards in quite awhile. I had a baby in November and my time has been extremely limited!

 

I'm so happy to have logged on today for the first time in months and to have found this thread! Dd and I just returned on Sunday from "Honors Day" at PITT. It was our first visit to the school. A few months ago we had almost discounted PITT due to the homeschool letter discussed in a thread this past fall. But soon after that thread, dd received a full tuition/room/board plus offer from PITT. So, of course, it was back in the running for us as well.

 

Our visit to PITT was enjoyable. The nursing tour was amazing. The program is certainly top-notch. And while dd was all but sold on Alabama (she loved the campus, honors dorms, and she had a full tuition/room/iPad/stipend scholarship), she is now leaning toward PITT for several reasons (superior program, direct admit nursing, begin clinicals sophomore year, 8 semesters instead of 9).

 

I have a few questions, if you don't mind.

Were you able to tour Sutherland (the honors dorm)? We were not...the tour took us to the towers. If so, we're the rooms any different for honors?

 

Do you see any advantages to the Living Learning communities?

 

Do you see their Honors program as being "strong"? Bama has an incredible honors program, and the Dean (Dr. Sharpe) seems very involved and concerned. I didn't get that impression at PITT.

 

Do you still foresee any problems submitting that final transcript that will be required before registering for 2nd semester courses?

 

Thanks for any insight. It would be quite a coincidence if both our students ended up at PITT after all!

[creekland]

I haven't been on the boards in quite awhile. I had a baby in November and my time has been extremely limited!

 

I'm so happy to have logged on today for the first time in months and to have found this thread! Dd and I just returned on Sunday from "Honors Day" at PITT. It was our first visit to the school. A few months ago we had almost discounted PITT due to the homeschool letter discussed in a thread this past fall. But soon after that thread, dd received a full tuition/room/board plus offer from PITT. So, of course, it was back in the running for us as well.

 

Our visit to PITT was enjoyable. The nursing tour was amazing. The program is certainly top-notch. And while dd was all but sold on Alabama (she loved the campus, honors dorms, and she had a full tuition/room/iPad/stipend scholarship), she is now leaning toward PITT for several reasons (superior program, direct admit nursing, begin clinicals sophomore year, 8 semesters instead of 9).

 

I have a few questions, if you don't mind.

Were you able to tour Sutherland (the honors dorm)? We were not...the tour took us to the towers. If so, we're the rooms any different for honors?

 

Do you see any advantages to the Living Learning communities?

 

Do you see their Honors program as being "strong"? Bama has an incredible honors program, and the Dean (Dr. Sharpe) seems very involved and concerned. I didn't get that impression at PITT.

 

Do you still foresee any problems submitting that final transcript that will be required before registering for 2nd semester courses?

 

Thanks for any insight. It would be quite a coincidence if both our students ended up at PITT after all!

 

Congratulations on the great scholarship offer! To anyone considering, it is well known that Pitt has great out of state scholarship opportunities. There are some for in-state too, but the competition is far stiffer making them much more difficult to get. (Not that any of them are "easy" - you need high stats, etc.) It's worth it to try whether in or out of state if interested.

 

And no, we didn't get to see the Honors dorm. It also concerned me that they had the Honors dorm up in the Frat area... but it wouldn't be a deal breaker.

 

Personally, I like the idea of Living Learning Communities. I wish U of Rochester had them.

 

I agree with you that I think Pitt's program is stronger than Alabama's (for more than just nursing). They are higher ranked, so I don't think it's just my thoughts, but the difference in the ranking isn't huge.

 

Alabama has their Honors Program, but unless one is in one of their specialized deals (University Fellows or Computer Based Research) I don't think they really have a great program. Most classes are still taken with their non-Honors students (as they are with Pitt). They do have great financing and a great sales pitch, but VERY few around here consider Alabama a peer school to Pitt academically (actually, IRL, I haven't found any who consider them peers - only online). I'm sure in their area it's different as more people are aware of the school and graduates, but we live around here. College confidential has one mom on there who really builds the school up to anyone and everyone and their tours are meant to sell one on their school, but looking aside of the sales pitch... I just don't see it now. Alabama is doing what it can to build up (and doing it in a great fashion for those who want merit aid), but they just haven't made it "up" yet. In the future I think they will if they keep getting top kids in (as one person put it, "buying top kids"). If you buy top "ingredients" sooner or later you should end up with a great finished product. But they are hampered by the rest of the school... their overall 4 year graduation rate was in the 30+ percent! I'm assuming most of those came from their Honors program (20 - 25% of the school).

 

Between the two? Pick based upon the better fit and feel for the individual student. For one who wishes to live in or near Alabama I'd give UA points. for one living outside that area I'd give Pitt points.

 

I really don't think my guy will end up at Pitt (or Alabama) since he has such a great financial package at the University of Rochester (and Rochester is better than Pitt for what he wants to do plus he prefers it being smaller and more of an enclosed campus, etc). Pitt, I believe, is his second choice just in case accepted students days turns him off in some way we're not foreseeing.

 

If my guy were to go to Pitt I'd have that final transcript deal hammered out in writing BEFORE putting down a deposit for fall. I'd be working on it NOW. Let us know what you find out if you head this way. There may be several others wondering. ;)