Latin question about ordering clauses in sentences

[ElaineJ]

I have no Latin background and I am learning along with my kids. Ds is currently doing Henle using the Memoria Press schedule for units 1-2. I grade his work with the answer key provided, and he sometimes puts his words or clauses in a different order from the way they are presented in the sentence. If he has all of the case/gender/number correct, does it matter if the sentence structure doesn't match the answer key? I've heard that there is more variance allowable than there is with English, but I just don't know enough about Latin to know to guide him.

 

Thanks for your help,

ElaineJ

[wapiti]

Do you mean when he's translating English to Latin or Latin to English?

 

It depends on the sentence. Usually, in Latin, the verb comes at the end of the sentence or clause. For example, review the Rules on pp. 14 and 28 in Henle I. When translating English to Latin, have him write the verb further down or, better yet, leave it to translate last, so that it becomes more natural to him over time.

 

There are some words for which the order matters, e.g., adverbs (see Rule p. 15) and prepositions.

 

When translating English to Latin, my dd likes to put the verb in the same place it would be in English. I haven't harped on it yet, but I'm getting ready to. We're coming to a point where we need to review and solidify a few things, and that is definitely on my list. It wasn't a high priority for me initially, but I looked ahead a few pages, and there will be a whole paragraph English to Latin. I think it's time. :)

[ElaineJ]

That was helpful! Yes, I mean from English to Latin. (I can figure out Latin to English without much trouble, as I'm pretty familiar with English grammar.) An example of my problem would be like the exercise from yesterday in which he translated "There was war in Gaul on account of the slaughter of the leading men" as "Erat bellum in Gallia propter caedem principium". the answer key translates this as "Propter caedem principum bellum erat in Gallia". Would his translation be unacceptable? Could it also be Propter caedem principum bellum in Gallia erat"?

 

You know, I think we're reaching the point where we need a class for Henle, but we just can't afford the Memoria Press classes by next fall.

 

Thanks for your input-

ElaineJ

[wapiti]

Hmmm... my inclination would be to put the erat at the beginning just like your ds did, according to the Note on page 53, as the translation for "There was." What key are you using? I have the Loyola one and the Seton one - I'll check the keys when I get back home on Sunday. But sure, I'd guess he was correct. It sounds like he's doing fine :)

[Ester Maria]

Latin syntax is quite free, with some subtle rules - at the initial stages of learning, I would reword it every time when it is slightly "unnatural", but not count as a mistake.

[ElaineJ]

The answer key is the one included in the Memoria Press study guide. We often have this situation in which it orders the sentence one way and my son does another. The problem is that I don't know enough Latin to know if it sounds unnatural or not.

 

Thanks for your help, wapiti and Ester Maria!

 

ElaineJ

[Nomen Nescio]

The short version is that Latin is a Subject-Object-Verb language. The long version could go on and on, but it would be easier to follow that pattern, even though it seems like Yoda-speak now, and through reading slowly get a feel for how the Latin sentence can vary.

[Finnella]

The short version is that Latin is a Subject-Object-Verb language.

 

That's quite correct, which makes the answer key version superior. But superior doesn't equal incorrect. Your son's version is clunkier, but the meaning is still there. In prose, only Cicero tended to do odd word order; it's more common in Latin poetry. (At least according to my memories.) Your son will find future translation work (Latin to English) easier if you continue to encourage him to translate from English to Latin with proper Latin word order.

 

Finn

[AmericanMom]

I agree with the others who said to go over the normal order with him, but not count it off. I use the Yoda example with my kids. I understand what Yoda is saying when he says, "Learn to use the force you must," but it sounds weird to our ears!