HOD Preparing and higher and Sonlight

[jer2911mom]

If you've used Sonlight (above Core K) and any of the HOD levels from Preparing and up, can you please share your experience with how they compare? What were the benefits and negatives of using each?

 

Also, if you've used these same levels as well as a lower level with an additional child, can you tell me how they compare working with two children? Is it harder/easier for you to do two cores vs. a higher HOD level and a lower one? My kids are three years apart and I don't want to try to combine in SL or HOD. Thanks!

[jer2911mom]

:lurk5:

[Lovedtodeath]

[Once]

I have used both SL Core 1 and 2 as well as CTC of HOD (and Bigger and Beyond). I don't feel well equiped to answer your questions, but I will give it a try. Please look at both websites to see the samples of both.

 

HOD has a much stronger Christian world view than SL. SL had the bible as a separate subject which you could take out if you wanted. HOD is steeped in the Christian faith and it crosses many subject lines (Geography, Grammar, History and Science).

 

SL had a longer list of books for reading out loud and I think for self reading. I liked the books chosen and the "feel" of them is different than the HOD choices. My daughter is doing HOD at a higher level so she is starting to work independently. As a result, I do not always know what she is reading. With SL in the early years, I read every one of the books to my daughter several times.....she loved being read to. HOD's book are a bit more old fashioned, I guess, with many Yestarday's classics.

 

HOD has a slightly classical approach to History.....four year rotation in chronological order. SL, from what I remember, does partly chronological and partly geographical split (so they have a year of Eastern History and a year of Western History).

 

SL was more interactive and even closing in on the Socratic Method. As I recall, each book came with many questions that the teacher asked. Some of those questions were content, some required more thinking and analysis. I could imagine in the middle and later SL cores that you would come closer to developing the students thinking and narration skills. The depth was impressive in SL.

 

I like the visual display of HOD over SL. SL was hard to follow visually. HOD has two page layout per day. My daughter has found a rhythm that is easy for her because of the page lay out, so her independence is budding effortlessly. In my opinion, that is one of the pluses of HOD.

 

HOD has the student work on a journal all year in History (in RTR there is also one about Shakespear). I do not remember SL having an equivalent finished product.

 

As far as combining.....I have not tried to combine with SL as my son was too little. I did combine my two oldest in HOD with Bigger and Beyond and it was not hard at all. Perhaps my son did not do work pages to the same skill level as my daughter but he took it all in. He is not doing CTC though because at the start of the year I felt he could not handle the journaling work. He is able to now and I may change my approach another year.

 

If your kids are writting, I would not hesitate to combine the History Art, Poetry and Science portion of HOD. Just do the grade appropriate Math, Spelling and Grammar and it should be fine. The read alouds may be harder to wiggle if the subject is sensitive (ie The Hittite Warrior is a little hard for younger kids and I would do another book if I was combining) Carrie is really good about highlighting books that may contain sensitive material.

 

I still do not feel very confident about how helpful this would be for you but I gave it a shot. Choosing a curriculuum is hard. Good Luck!!

[Lovedtodeath]

I have no personal experience with doing two levels, but from what I have read here and elsewhere it is much easier to do two levels at the same time with HOD.

[jer2911mom]

I have used both SL Core 1 and 2 as well as CTC of HOD (and Bigger and Beyond). I don't feel well equiped to answer your questions, but I will give it a try. Please look at both websites to see the samples of both.

 

HOD has a much stronger Christian world view than SL. SL had the bible as a separate subject which you could take out if you wanted. HOD is steeped in the Christian faith and it crosses many subject lines (Geography, Grammar, History and Science).

 

SL had a longer list of books for reading out loud and I think for self reading. I liked the books chosen and the "feel" of them is different than the HOD choices. My daughter is doing HOD at a higher level so she is starting to work independently. As a result, I do not always know what she is reading. With SL in the early years, I read every one of the books to my daughter several times.....she loved being read to. HOD's book are a bit more old fashioned, I guess, with many Yestarday's classics.

 

HOD has a slightly classical approach to History.....four year rotation in chronological order. SL, from what I remember, does partly chronological and partly geographical split (so they have a year of Eastern History and a year of Western History).

 

SL was more interactive and even closing in on the Socratic Method. As I recall, each book came with many questions that the teacher asked. Some of those questions were content, some required more thinking and analysis. I could imagine in the middle and later SL cores that you would come closer to developing the students thinking and narration skills. The depth was impressive in SL.

 

I like the visual display of HOD over SL. SL was hard to follow visually. HOD has two page layout per day. My daughter has found a rhythm that is easy for her because of the page lay out, so her independence is budding effortlessly. In my opinion, that is one of the pluses of HOD.

 

HOD has the student work on a journal all year in History (in RTR there is also one about Shakespear). I do not remember SL having an equivalent finished product.

 

As far as combining.....I have not tried to combine with SL as my son was too little. I did combine my two oldest in HOD with Bigger and Beyond and it was not hard at all. Perhaps my son did not do work pages to the same skill level as my daughter but he took it all in. He is not doing CTC though because at the start of the year I felt he could not handle the journaling work. He is able to now and I may change my approach another year.

 

If your kids are writting, I would not hesitate to combine the History Art, Poetry and Science portion of HOD. Just do the grade appropriate Math, Spelling and Grammar and it should be fine. The read alouds may be harder to wiggle if the subject is sensitive (ie The Hittite Warrior is a little hard for younger kids and I would do another book if I was combining) Carrie is really good about highlighting books that may contain sensitive material.

 

I still do not feel very confident about how helpful this would be for you but I gave it a shot. Choosing a curriculuum is hard. Good Luck!!

 

Thanks, Trina! This is very helpful! I am currently using LHFHG and trying out Core K and I agree with what you wrote. HOD does seem to choose more old-fashioned books, especially the early devotionals. Core K has many more read-alouds and the history and science go deeper. I really like the way bible is used for history in the first half of LHFHG. My dd really likes the SL books so far. She has liked the Thorton Burgess books in LHFHG, but we've wanted more K literature. SL is filling that need. And we wanted more science, and it is filling that need, too. I like the questions SL has for the history and read-alouds, too. And the background info. for me as the teacher. I've liked LHFHG's scheduling of A Reason for Handwriting and Singapore, as well as the math activities. I like the scripture CDs in both HOD and SL. I like the activities in HOD because they are doable and get done. My dd likes the rhymes in motion, too. The HOD ideas for bible verse memorization have been good for my dd because they often involve gross motor skills.

 

So I am at a crossroads with these two programs. I really like what I see of HOD from Preparing and up. The next two years I feel like we'd still need to supplement science, bible and spelling, and probably order all the read aloud kits to have enough books. I don't like that the Storytime questions become generic starting in Beyond. And in DITHOR. I really like that SL has questions specific to each book included. But HOD chooses things that I would like to try, like MOH, Diana Waring CDs, R&S grammar, Famous Men books, Apologia's Who is God?, and Apologia's Astronomy and Zoology 3 science.

 

So, I guess my question for you (and anyone else reading this) is, do you feel HOD at the upper levels has good depth? You mentioned that you found SL's depth impressive. And you liked the interaction. I think that is what has been missing for us this year in HOD, and what my dd is finding in SL. With SL we are on the couch more discussing things. With HOD, everything is very short and more of a do it and check it off and be done with it feel to it. I love the HOD layout and how efficient it is. I am able to finish it every day. SL is more open-ended to me and harder on me because I am a box checker. I think what it is boiling down to for me is assessing what exactly is being accomplished with each. I do get the feeling that HOD goes a bit deeper each year, but maybe not at the pace I am looking for right now. I'm trying to figure out if the upper programs are worth the wait. I am getting the impression that they take a lot of time because they are full, but I can't tell about the depth. Thanks!

[Lovedtodeath]

I have read a lot about this. A lot. There area couple of things to keep in mind about HOD. It is a Charlotte Mason based program, so you are staying with one book longer, per CM. There is less reading and more assignments. Sonlight tends to gobble books quickly with less retention.

 

I am getting the impression that they take a lot of time because they are full, but I can't tell about the depth. Thanks!

 

HOD is designed to become more independent each year... so as the workload increases for the student it stays the same for the teacher.

[Once]

So, I guess my question for you (and anyone else reading this) is, do you feel HOD at the upper levels has good depth? You mentioned that you found SL's depth impressive. And you liked the interaction. I think that is what has been missing for us this year in HOD, and what my dd is finding in SL. With SL we are on the couch more discussing things. With HOD, everything is very short and more of a do it and check it off and be done with it feel to it. I love the HOD layout and how efficient it is. I am able to finish it every day. SL is more open-ended to me and harder on me because I am a box checker. I think what it is boiling down to for me is assessing what exactly is being accomplished with each. I do get the feeling that HOD goes a bit deeper each year, but maybe not at the pace I am looking for right now. I'm trying to figure out if the upper programs are worth the wait. I am getting the impression that they take a lot of time because they are full, but I can't tell about the depth. Thanks!

 

Yep. It was lost.

Sorry.

 

Back to the basics.....how to you define depth? How I measure it maybe different than what you are looking for.

 

I would use measurements like....

...quality of book selection.

...length of time spend on one book.

...length of time spent on a time period.

...use of skills

...and demand of higher order thinking vs simple rote memorizing or the like.

 

Would that cover all of them? Anything I am missing?

[jer2911mom]

Yep. It was lost.

Sorry.

 

Back to the basics.....how to you define depth? How I measure it maybe different than what you are looking for.

 

I would use measurements like....

...quality of book selection.

...length of time spend on one book.

...length of time spent on a time period.

...use of skills

...and demand of higher order thinking vs simple rote memorizing or the like.

 

Would that cover all of them? Anything I am missing?

 

I agree with your list. For me, the higher order thinking is pretty important. There is a difference between merely conveying facts in an interesting way and actually engaging the child in discussion of that information that leads to them drawing (their own) conclusions and applying that information in a useful way. Discernment is important to me. I don't want the child to continually be led to "the right answer". I want them to use the bible as their standard/plumbline and discern the truth themselves, but also to be aware that there are other points of view they will encounter in this world. I think I would add to the list a focus on diversity of cultures/an international focus that challenges the child to look outward beyond themselves and their country and see the needs and challenges around the world, to see that we are interconnected, and contemplate their role in this world (could probably fall under higher level thinking).

 

It kind of comes down to wanting more information on what kind of content is in the upper HOD levels. Is it full because there is just a lot to do, or is this activity purposeful and providing a deep understanding of the material that leads to useful application? Are you "wowed" by what your kids are getting out of these levels?

 

Thanks for your help with this!

Edited March 25, 2011 by jer2911mom

[Grateful for Grace]

I haven't used HOD Preparing and/or Higher, but I've used SL for five cores with all kiddos. I just couldn't fathom doing two cores with them. It's just not in me. IF I let my eldest do all their work on their own, I could, but one of the things I most love about our homeschool is doing a unit of study together.

 

Now, we don't do everything together. They do their own math, vocab, writing, Spanish. BUT we do science together (Apologia) and history/reading. I don't want her to be doing her own thing without me being a part of her school life. KWIM? I know it works for many people. I'm not judging that. It's just a personal preference.

 

So... after using SL for Cores 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7 we switched to TOG. It was a lot of work deciding what books to buy for three levels (LG, UG and D). It as also really expensive. I'm a book junkie so trying to say no to books was next to impossible. Plus, my kids love to read and like to have plenty.

 

We went back to SL for this year, but that was always the plan. We are doing Core 5 for the second time. I absolutely love it and want each of my kids to go through it twice. IMHO, it's the easiest core to use with the whole family.

 

Note: for all SL cores, I spent extra money for extra books for my voracious readers and for the younger kids, to make doing the core with everyone possible. Amazon was my friend.

 

Honestly, I'm in the anxiety stage in deciding for next year. I hope you find a good plan for yourself. I might have been rambling too much. I hope it helps in some ways.

[jer2911mom]

I haven't used HOD Preparing and/or Higher, but I've used SL for five cores with all kiddos. I just couldn't fathom doing two cores with them. It's just not in me. IF I let my eldest do all their work on their own, I could, but one of the things I most love about our homeschool is doing a unit of study together.

 

Now, we don't do everything together. They do their own math, vocab, writing, Spanish. BUT we do science together (Apologia) and history/reading. I don't want her to be doing her own thing without me being a part of her school life. KWIM? I know it works for many people. I'm not judging that. It's just a personal preference.

 

So... after using SL for Cores 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7 we switched to TOG. It was a lot of work deciding what books to buy for three levels (LG, UG and D). It as also really expensive. I'm a book junkie so trying to say no to books was next to impossible. Plus, my kids love to read and like to have plenty.

 

We went back to SL for this year, but that was always the plan. We are doing Core 5 for the second time. I absolutely love it and want each of my kids to go through it twice. IMHO, it's the easiest core to use with the whole family.

 

Note: for all SL cores, I spent extra money for extra books for my voracious readers and for the younger kids, to make doing the core with everyone possible. Amazon was my friend.

 

Honestly, I'm in the anxiety stage in deciding for next year. I hope you find a good plan for yourself. I might have been rambling too much. I hope it helps in some ways.

 

Thanks for your reply! Can you recommend how you would go about combining two kids 3.5 yrs apart (3 grades)? How do you decide which core to use? I think if I had been homeschooling longer, I'd feel more comfortable just adding in extra books, but with this being my first year, I still don't know how to make it age appropriate for each one. I hardly know yet what is appropriate for each age, know what I mean? It seems SL runs advanced as it is, making it even harder to figure out.

 

Thanks!

[Grateful for Grace]

SL does run advanced.

 

This is what I usually do:

I don't do their Bible curric. We do BSF, our own memory work, catechism, and family discussions.

We plan to do the timeline, but I usually forget (just being honest).

We do the read alouds together.

We do the history books as read alouds together.

They do their own readers. For kids reading levels apart, I buy other books on Amazon that correspond in topic.

We do the maps together.

 

I don't do SL science or LA.

 

I think Core 5 is the easiest to combine and if you are newer to hsing, this might be the best way to go. Their Eastern Hemisphere Explorer is a lot of work, but you can make your own schedule instead of trying to do SL's. That's what I did. I'd be happy to email you the schedule I made.

 

How old are your kiddos? I might be able to help more knowing that.

[jer2911mom]

SL does run advanced.

 

This is what I usually do:

I don't do their Bible curric. We do BSF, our own memory work, catechism, and family discussions.

We plan to do the timeline, but I usually forget (just being honest).

We do the read alouds together.

We do the history books as read alouds together.

They do their own readers. For kids reading levels apart, I buy other books on Amazon that correspond in topic.

We do the maps together.

 

I don't do SL science or LA.

 

I think Core 5 is the easiest to combine and if you are newer to hsing, this might be the best way to go. Their Eastern Hemisphere Explorer is a lot of work, but you can make your own schedule instead of trying to do SL's. That's what I did. I'd be happy to email you the schedule I made.

 

How old are your kiddos? I might be able to help more knowing that.

 

Thanks! Mine are 6 and 3, so next year 1st and pre-K. I may do Core K (A) (which we've done 2 weeks of so far this spring) and P3/4. I don't mind doing the preschool cores since they are lighter, I'm more concerned when my youngest hits K and up.