How does BJU (or others) compare to Horizons?

[Lovedtodeath]

I am thinking of switching because I hate the Horizons TM. I noticed someone else with this problem, and I am disappointed to find out that it continues to be of no help at all. "Teach bar graphs" okay... so helpful.

 

I like the way it is laid out though, if that makes since. DD really likes it, because it doesn't get boring. Thanks for any suggestions.

[Lovedtodeath]

:cheers2: I am bumping this and I just like this smiley. LOL

[Cindyg]

I can answer questons about BJUP, but I can't compare it to Horizons. We've been using HomeSat for 4 years (since first grade). What would you like me to tell you?

[Lovedtodeath]

Thank you for your offer. With Horizons each lesson is 1 page front and back, 2-3 ideas per side. In K, we will learn a shape, then review the 4th day of the week, then write missing numbers, and on the back we practice writing our numbers and connect some dots. It jumps all over the place but always has mostly review and one or two new concepts, or it may build on a concept. I hope I am explaining. I think someone called it spiral when it does that. I heard BJU is really good so I was hoping it would do the same thing. We really like the feeling of jumping all over the place.

 

 

OH! I found a similar post, I bet I will get my answer there.

[Cindyg]

OK, I didn't do K, so this will apply to grades 1-4.

 

Most lessons, most days do include a one page (front and back) worksheet. Generally, the front of the worksheet is to be done together (student and teacher) and the back of the worksheet is to be done independently. Of course you don't have to do it that way, but that's the design.

 

BJUP tends to be more of a unit study. So, for instance, in Math, you might spend two weeks on fractions, the next two weeks on shapes, the next two weeks on addition, and the next two weeks on time. In English, you might spend two weeks on verbs, the next two weeks on writing a tall tale, and the next two weeks on punctuation.

 

An important thing to know about BJUP is that it is intended to be TAUGHT. It is not a worksheet-driven or even a textbook-driven program. If you only do the worksheets and/or if you only read the student text, you are not getting the entire program. The meat of all of BJUP's lessons is in the teacher's manual. This includes the reviews.

 

Sometimes you hear people criticize BJUP for not doing enough review. For instance, in that two weeks that you spend on fractions, your child might forget how to subtract. Well, that "missing" review is in the teacher's manual. They expect you to talk through [whatever] with your child. And if you follow the lesson plans in the TM, everything will be reviewed frequently enough.

 

I'll be happy to try another question if you have more. :)

[Lovedtodeath]

Could you explain how the review is in the TM? In Kindergarten in PS she learned addition at the beginning of the year, and subtraction at the end. I presented her with addition in Horizons and she said minus and subtracted. She forgot it was a plus sign. So I know she needs review or she gets so focused on the one skill she forgets everything else. The unit study idea makes more since to me of course.

 

In Horizons, the TM does not explain HOW to teach bar graphs, for example... will BJU have a script? OH, and just curious if I do order their math... does BJU have a class similar to Abeka's... Health, Safety, and Manners?

 

THANKS again!

[Cindyg]

A typical format for math class is

 

1. Skill Review. The page I turned to at random in the 4th grade book says, "Recalling division facts. Select an activity from "Fact Fun" in the Supplement to review the facts."

 

2. Concept Review. Again, a random sample: "Estimating the sum of an addition problem by rounding and adding two-digit and three-digit numbers. Write the following problems in vertical form on the scratch pad. (examples given). Instruct your child to estimate the sum of the first problem by rounding. (answer given). (Several more examples given.)

 

(So, you see, in this lesson, we did not review everything; but tomorrow's lesson will lead the teacher to review something else.)

 

3. Introducing the lesson. In this example, there's a little fictional story about whaling that includes real facts. The theme for this entire class is a sea captain searching for a treasure and learning moral lessons along the way. So every once in a while, you get little sea faring stories. This one is scripted.

 

4. Teaching the lesson. This is not scripted, but it is quite detailed. It is written in second person. "Direct your child to...Instruct him to...Call attention to...Explain that this problem can by easily solved by...Write the answer (answer given)...Remind your child that multiplying the divisor times the quotient will give the dividend...Tell the following word problem... The actual text goes on and on. You would probably need to go through it with a highlighter. This is the meat of the lesson.

 

5. Guide the child in completing each section of the worksheet. If you're only using the worktext, you missed all of the above.

 

6. Assign the back of the worksheet as independent work.

 

I can't specifically recall the lesson where we learned bar graphs or how BJUP instructed the mom to teach it. But the TMs are detailed. If anything, one might say they are too detailed. They do not frequently leave you hanging. (There have been a few moments when I didn't know how to proceed. But not often.)

 

I don't believe BJUP has a Health, Safety, and Manner's course. I've heard Abeka's is good. I would assume that these topics are covered in the BJU curriculum somewhere else. For instance, health would come up in science class. I remember 1st Grade Science had a unit on caring for your teeth. I remember 3rd Grade Science had a unit on nutrition. 4th Grade science has a unit on digestion. I cannot remember where we've encountered safety--perhaps in Heritage Studies (BJUP's version of social studies + geography + history). And I can't remember where we encountered manners, but surely somewhere!

 

I'm happy to answer more questions.

[Wee Pip]

My 1st dd used BJU K Math & then we switched to Horizons 1 (it came in our Sonlight package & I've regretted it ever since). My dd was able to jump from BJU K to Horizons 1 without a problem. Though I hear from some that Horizons is about 6mos ahead of public schools & I think BJU keeps apace of p.s., so there may be more of a gap in later years? I don't know...

 

BJU has been coming out with its 3rd edition for the early years of math. I really like the looks of the 3rd edition - it is such an improvement from the 2nd edition. They already have K, 1st, 2nd...3rd gr will come out this July. I'm not sure how the rest of the grades are laid out, but in K, they do sort of a mastery-spiral combo. Measurement is taught in chapter 5 and chapter 18 (so its laid out in a way that all topics are taught twice, with more added on that 2nd time through). If measurement was taught in chapter 5, then it'll re-emerge in the workbook page under the Time to Review section, and will come up again as review from time to time. So the new 3rd editions do have more review within the workbook page itself. However, the others are correct in saying that the bulk of the review will come from the teacher's guide activities. If your child is solid on something, then you really don't need to do all the teacher's guide review activities all of the time.

 

There is a lot of hand-holding. One of the things I hated about Horizons is that it just left you hanging. For addition in 1st gr, they just said in the TM "spend 5mins using addition flashcards to 9, with answers showing." Two weeks later, it said "spend 5mins using addition flashcards to 18, with answers showing." From what I can tell with BJU, they approach it conceptually - the student would learn +1s first, then +2s, etc. and it would show the student how to conceptually understand the addition problem. Plus 9s would be taught as making a ten (9+5=10+4=14). Horizons never did that! If people say that BJU is "behind", it is because it spends more time teaching math conceptually, rather than just memorizing a bunch of facts.

 

I actually just ordered BJU 1st & 2nd gr math. My 2nd gr hasn't used BJU Math in 2 years, so I'm hoping it goes ok. My K'er just finished BJU K & is ready to move up.

 

Have you seen the sample chapter on BJU's web site? Find the book and then click on the book & you can see the table of contents & first chapter. This may help you.

[Mamabyrd]

Here is what I decided to do. I ordered Horizons 5th grade from R.O.C.K. Solid yesterday (to take advantage of the 20% off sale in April). My dd liked Horizons last year and wanted to continue with it. I had looked through Bob Jones 5th grade math text at our local homeschool store and really liked some of the explanations in the text. I know the Bob Jones TM gives detailed explanations (I looked at it yesterday, too) about how to further teach concepts but the explanations in the actual text book were very good, too. Still, my dd really wanted to do Horizons again, partly because she likes the workbook format and BJU goes to a textbook format in 5th.

 

 

I ordered a Bob Jones 5th grade textbook from half.com for $4.95. Whenever I need further explanation on how to teach a concept, I will bring out the Bob Jones text. Or if I feel my dd needs extra practice on a concept, she can do the exercizes in the Bob Jones book.

 

I actually tried Bob Jones 3rd grade math previously and switched to Horizons. Bob Jones had great content but I didn't like having to switch between the TM, the teacher materials packet, the student materials, the student worktext and the flip charts. It drove me a little nuts and my dd didn't like it. My dd likes doing a variety of problems every day so she loved Horizons. In 5th grade, Bob Jones goes to a textbook format and there were more explanations contained directly in the book. Prior to 5th grade, it seems like the TM is more of a neccessity. Looking through the textbook, it seemed as if the concepts were explained in a way that it would assist me in teaching any concepts from Horizons if I needed extra help.

 

Anyway, that's the plan. Here's hoping it will work next year!

 

Good luck to you in making your decisions. Math is always a tough one:ack2:

[Lovedtodeath]

Wow I like it. Maybe I could buy a 1st grade TM from Bob Jones and leave it at that. Bonus if I can get it cheap like you did. I wonder, do they cover everything like Horizons? Well, I guess I will find out...thanks!

[Mamabyrd]

There were a few things that Horizons covered that weren't covered in Bob Jones but the scope and sequence was close enough. On half.com many of the sellers have the Teacher Manuals to sell but can't list them (it is a division of Ebay and you can no longer sell TMs on Ebay). If you searched on half.com for Bob Jones Math, grade 1, for example, it would bring up the worktexts. But in many of the descriptions of the worktexts, sellers will say "I have the TM, too. Email me for info." So, you can still buy them discounted but in a round about way. One person was selling the complete Bob Jones 5th grade set (text, teacher books, tests) for $25 and only $3.99 shippping!! Or you can go to Amazon and type it in and then click "Buy it used." I bought Lials Basic Math that way for only $8.00 and it was in like new shape! For example, Amazon currently has 7 used Bob Jones 1st grade manuals for sale, with prices ranging from $7.95 - $10.00.

[Lovedtodeath]

wow, how thoroughly helpful you are!