Rod & Staff users ?

[Kel & the Kids]

I think this might be my first post here but I've been reading around for a few weeks and loving it! That aside...

 

I've decided to go with R&S for Grammar for my DS starting grade 5 this year. He hasn't done any formal Grammar outside of SL LA, I already own R&S 3 so unless there is a convincing reason why not I've decided to start him there and then move on to R&S 5 when we're done. Am I going to regret that decision? Will it put him behind in some horrible way? I just didn't want to buy Grade 5 and find out we hate it. ;)

 

Thanks for any help!

 

Kelly (no siggy yet!)

Mom to 4, 10-3

[AHASRADA]

My dd and I have used R&S 3 for 4th grade, and plan to use 4 for 5th (thus one year behind). If you didn't already own 3, I would probably say go with 4. However, since you have 3 and you want to try it out, I would just use it and see how it goes. If some parts seem a bit easy, let him do 2 lessons at a time until it gets harder, and if you both like it, you could jump into 4 when you finish 3. I wouldn't worry about him being behind, since R&S is advanced. Just a word of caution, R&S is written for the classroom, so there is some "busywork". Do most of the lesson orally, only having him write out what you feel is beneficial to him, and move ahead when you feel he is able. If you do this, you should both enjoy the program.

[t-hat]

I think it would be fine to do R&S 3 for 5th and then move to 5, as each level repeats the parts of speech each year and each level increases the difficulty of diagramming. When you get to 5 you may have to slow down to on some areas that may seem like a jump from 3 (covered in 4), but with a little extra teaching on your part (especially in diagramming), I am sure you can move through 5. Starting in Level 3 this year will be an easier introduction into the R&S format than jumping right into 4 or 5.

[Carrie-txmama2six]

I think there is a big jump from 3 to 5. I would buy 4 if it is at all possible.

[Ali in OR]

I think you're okay starting out in 3. We finished 4 last year and I have to say I did not see much of a jump from 3 to 4. Lots of 4 was done in 3. So I am also tempted to think that you may be able to go from 3 to 5 if he handles 3 well. We'll be moving on to 5 this year, but haven't ordered it yet so I can't comment on its difficulty. Oh and I also agree to do a lot of it orally. It keeps the tedium down. Using a white board helps too. Hope R&S works out for you.

[SilverMoon]

I also think you'd be fine skipping the 4 book. :)

[Kel & the Kids]

Wow, thanks for all of your responses. Maybe I can track down someone around me who's got 4 and 5 so I can take a peek. I don't think many people use R&S in my area. Thanks for the reassurance to go ahead with 3!

 

As far as doing the lesson orally, how long would you say it takes?

[AHASRADA]

 

As far as doing the lesson orally, how long would you say it takes?

 

I would say, doing 3 with a 4th grader last year, it took 15 minutes max. Some of the lessons that she already grasped well took much less, so I would double up on those.

 

If you have him write a few of the exercises, I would say 20-30 minutes should be enough.

 

One point I forgot to make earlier...Although R&S grammar is quite advanced, the writing lessons in 3 will not be sufficient for a 5th grader. You will likely want to use something additional for composition (even if it's something you create yourself, adding writing assignments from other subjects and working on his area of weakness, etc.) Writing Strands and IEW are also good, gentle, and not too time-consuming to add in.

 

HTH,

[Colleen in NS]

I've decided to go with R&S for Grammar for my DS starting grade 5 this year. He hasn't done any formal Grammar outside of SL LA, I already own R&S 3 so unless there is a convincing reason why not I've decided to start him there and then move on to R&S 5 when we're done. Am I going to regret that decision? Will it put him behind in some horrible way? I just didn't want to buy Grade 5 and find out we hate it. ;)

 

As far as doing the lesson orally, how long would you say it takes?

 

Just another thought. Since you have decided on R&S in general, you *could* buy level 5 and give a try now; maybe go through it slowly if need be. I have seen posts in the past where people say even a child without formal grammar have done well with starting level 5 in grade 5. Level 5 does repeat all the material from levels 3 and 4; it's just written to a 10 year old as opposed to an 8 year old. (It's just that you wouldn't want to start at level 6 or 7 without having at least level 5 - I have seen level 5 rec'd. as a starting point for 10yo and older who haven't had grammar yet)

 

And since you are set on R&S, buying level 5 won't hurt in the long run, since you will get to it anyway, if you decide to go back a level or two.

 

Orally - it takes us about 15 minutes to read through (my 12yo reads it to himself, my 9yo reads it to me), go through the oral review, and go through whatever exercises (class or written) I want them to do. The only thing my kids write out are the diagrams - everything else is oral.

 

And like I said in the other thread about writing (I saw that you had read it), I lightly go over the R&S writing exercises. We don't spend long on them; I hardly ever have them do the composition exercises, unless it somehow relates to our narrations/outlines from the "SWB plan" lol. And even then, if I have them do a R&S writing exercise, it replaces the narration/outline I had planned for that day. Which I don't really like to do, because I'd rather have my kids continue to practice narrations and outlines. :D

[Kel & the Kids]

Just another thought. Since you have decided on R&S in general, you *could* buy level 5 and give a try now; maybe go through it slowly if need be. I have seen posts in the past where people say even a child without formal grammar have done well with starting level 5 in grade 5. Level 5 does repeat all the material from levels 3 and 4; it's just written to a 10 year old as opposed to an 8 year old. (It's just that you wouldn't want to start at level 6 or 7 without having at least level 5 - I have seen level 5 rec'd. as a starting point for 10yo and older who haven't had grammar yet)

 

And since you are set on R&S, buying level 5 won't hurt in the long run, since you will get to it anyway, if you decide to go back a level or two.

 

Orally - it takes us about 15 minutes to read through (my 12yo reads it to himself, my 9yo reads it to me), go through the oral review, and go through whatever exercises (class or written) I want them to do. The only thing my kids write out are the diagrams - everything else is oral.

 

And like I said in the other thread about writing (I saw that you had read it), I lightly go over the R&S writing exercises. We don't spend long on them; I hardly ever have them do the composition exercises, unless it somehow relates to our narrations/outlines from the "SWB plan" lol. And even then, if I have them do a R&S writing exercise, it replaces the narration/outline I had planned for that day. Which I don't really like to do, because I'd rather have my kids continue to practice narrations and outlines. :D

 

Thanks Colleen! If I had any school money left I would ;) Shipping in Canada (maybe the US too?) kills me (rant: I just paid 25$US in shipping from BJU because I needed a workbook I couldn't get here! :glare:). Anyway, I think I'm sold on R&S so I was hoping 3 would work to get my reluctant but gifted 5th grader going. I was reading it last night and was thrilled to actually learn something about diagramming! I've never done it before!... The things that excite me these days. Honestly.

[Colleen in NS]

Thanks Colleen! If I had any school money left I would ;) Shipping in Canada (maybe the US too?) kills me (rant: I just paid 25$US in shipping from BJU because I needed a workbook I couldn't get here! :glare:). Anyway, I think I'm sold on R&S so I was hoping 3 would work to get my reluctant but gifted 5th grader going. I was reading it last night and was thrilled to actually learn something about diagramming! I've never done it before!... The things that excite me these days. Honestly.

 

I am *sure* there is a company in Canada that you can get BJU stuff from....now if only I could remember which....The Learning House in Ontario, maybe? Have you seen the recent threads about suppliers in Canada? I have no idea if this is all new for you or not, but there are quite a few homeschool suppliers across Canada, and a few threads on the boards listing them. Maybe you could do a search, if you need to know. I get my R&S books from CMCO Publications in Ontario - if you need info., let me know. The woman who answers the phone there is VERY helpful. I've used them for years.

 

Yeah, I remember when we first started R&S 3 grammar - I was SO excited to be finally learning grammar!!!!! I still like it - I learned this past week what objective and subjective complements are! There is nothing wrong with getting excited about learning this stuff! :D You know what happens to me now - I'll be sitting there listening to someone say something, or listening to a sermon at church, and I ACTUALLY DIAGRAM the sentences (roughly) in my mind, so that I can figure out exactly what the person is saying!!!!! It's getting to be automatic, and it's fun to hone my thinking!!!!!

[Kel & the Kids]

I am *sure* there is a company in Canada that you can get BJU stuff from....now if only I could remember which....The Learning House in Ontario, maybe? Have you seen the recent threads about suppliers in Canada? I have no idea if this is all new for you or not, but there are quite a few homeschool suppliers across Canada, and a few threads on the boards listing them. Maybe you could do a search, if you need to know. I get my R&S books from CMCO Publications in Ontario - if you need info., let me know. The woman who answers the phone there is VERY helpful. I've used them for years.

 

Yeah, I remember when we first started R&S 3 grammar - I was SO excited to be finally learning grammar!!!!! I still like it - I learned this past week what objective and subjective complements are! There is nothing wrong with getting excited about learning this stuff! :D You know what happens to me now - I'll be sitting there listening to someone say something, or listening to a sermon at church, and I ACTUALLY DIAGRAM the sentences (roughly) in my mind, so that I can figure out exactly what the person is saying!!!!! It's getting to be automatic, and it's fun to hone my thinking!!!!!

 

Oh Colleen I didn't notice you were in Canada too! I usually get my BJU stuff from CHER in AB but their distributor did not have the soon to be discontinued Math3 workbook I needed :glare: Maybe I could have tried some other sources, never occurred to me! I did find a R&S Canadian distributor, but their stuff still comes from the States although the shipping seemed reasonable. Maybe it's the one you use. I'm just bitter I think ;). Maybe CHER will order it in for me next time I need to order.

 

Anyway, thanks for the info! All this learning is so good for the mommy brain I've had for so long. I'm so glad somebody knows what I'm talking about. My dh looks at me :001_huh: like I'm growing another head! He seriously thinks I'm warped.

[Janie]

Hi Kelly,

If you want to see what R&S 4 and 5 look like, you can view both table of contents and sample pages at http://www.rodandstaff.info/samples/english/

 

I teach R&S 6, 7, and 8 at a private school. We use it from grade 2-10 and love it.

I do all the Class Practice exercises orally, but the Written Exercises and worksheets are homework. Sometimes it seems like it might be a bit redundant ("Repetition is the mother of learning"), but the practice develops a thinking mind and benefits the student in future grades. The one thing I have realized over my 24 years of teaching is that students *need* to do written work and lots of it. They need to develop the stamina necessary for the rigor of rhetoric stage and college. In turn, they learn how to think.

 

~Just a few words from way down the road. :)

[Kel & the Kids]

Hi Kelly,

If you want to see what R&S 4 and 5 look like, you can view both table of contents and sample pages at http://www.rodandstaff.info/samples/english/

 

I teach R&S 6, 7, and 8 at a private school. We use it from grade 2-10 and love it.

I do all the Class Practice exercises orally, but the Written Exercises and worksheets are homework. Sometimes it seems like it might be a bit redundant ("Repetition is the mother of learning"), but the practice develops a thinking mind and benefits the student in future grades. The one thing I have realized over my 24 years of teaching is that students *need* to do written work and lots of it. They need to develop the stamina necessary for the rigor of rhetoric stage and college. In turn, they learn how to think.

 

~Just a few words from way down the road. :)

 

Thanks Janie, I'll check it out. I completely agree with your statement above. I don't believe I've made my 2 oldest write down enough stuff. They have no handwriting or motor skill issues or anything of that sort, yet I have skimped on having them write out full answers, I've let them do too much orally. I feel it has not helped them to really work through some of the thinking processes necessary and has definitely made the whiny when I do ask for written work :glare:

 

I'm surprised at how much more traditional my ideas of "school" are becoming! I didn't start out this way 6 years ago:001_smile: