Going from CW over to LTOW . . . opinions, please?

[jeri]

DD is a rising 8th grader and has gone through CW Aesop, Homer A and B, and finally Maxim. She, and I, are just sort of burned out with CW. I think this is a great program, and it has greatly improved her writing mechanics, but she is so uninspired to move on to Chreia.

 

One direction I am going in is following SWB's recommendation for the logic years more closely. So, I am trying to make her writing more purposeful and more closely aligned with the ancient history that we are doing next year. (Yes, I know, in 8th we should be doing Modern but we are actually starting the third rotation in Ancients.) I find that CW is teaching her how to imitate good writing, but it is not teaching her "real" writing, which should be writing about what you are currently experiencing.

 

Other considerations: I have five younger kids as well and going over CW seemed to take an awful long time. I'm still not feeling like she is writing *well* in CW since she is frustrated by it and churns out whatever she thinks will work (which lessens her attn to detail). I'm not getting the sense that she is really pondering essay questions since she sort of writes off the top of her head.

 

On the other hand, I just went to the Yahoogroup on LTOW and I must admit that I was not overly impressed with the writing assignments some of the tutors/parents posted. Please don't take this too critically! I just found them to be sort of formulaic and without a good command of using interesting words, synonyms, a variety of sentences, etc. (I guess we did get something out of CW!) But perhaps that this is just the style that these particular students have been taught . . .

 

So, are we good candidates for LTOW? Can you sell me on why you like it? Or can you convince me to stay with CW one more year. thank you!

 

Jeri

[PeterPan]

Jerri, my dd is a couple years younger than yours (rising 6th), but she's very very similar with how she handles CW. We've done CW/WT since the beginning (last year Homer A), and it SO does not speak to her or elicit anything good. It doesn't call the creativity, humor, and joy out of her soul. Have you looked at the Wordsmith series? It's SO different and has this interesting humor to it that appeals to dd. We did Wordsmith Apprentice the year I had the baby, and it was definitely her happiest year of writing ever. I have regular Wordsmith (the middle level) in the wings for her for this year. It's marked grades 7-9 I think. Then there's Wordsmith Craftsman. SWB has a review of the Wordsmith series (google to find it) and speaks of it VERY HIGHLY. It's so very different, it might just be the ticket for you.

 

As you say, LoTW tries to do a lot and is sort of convoluted at the same time. Given where we're coming from with so much good imitation, we see the assumptions it is making (on quality of sentence structure, etc. etc.). Somebody said Kern is trying to connect with Pudewa (of IEW) in some way. If THAT were to happen, that might be a really interesting turn. But for right now, I'm just saying it you're not the only one uncertain about LToW. Not saying it's bad, just that it didn't seem FULLY like what I wanted.

 

Now the other thing I've become convinced of, after hearing Martin Cothran speak, was the value of straight logic and rhetoric study. You'll notice SWB/WTM does this and so does MP. They teach logic and rhetoric as a full subject, then they have writing as a full subject. Then they try to marry the two as the student's maturity kicks in. I think that's what CW is *trying* to do also, but they seem to make it so ugly. In my mind it might be easier just to work through the Traditional Logic, Modern Rhetoric, Kane, and the other goodies, and let them carry over to the writing as she's ready. At least that's what I'm thinking. And since it's what SWB seems to be saying in WTM, I don't feel so nuts about thinking it.

 

I also don't think writing is something that is done in high school and then stopped. We can give them lots of pieces separately (study Aristotle, study logic, etc.), and let it click when it's ready, maybe even not till college.

[jeri]

You know, I went to the wordsmith website this am (and the Bravewriter website as well since someone had suggested it) and I *still* wasn't inspired! I'm sorry--I know you're trying to help. As least you are a CW dropout like me, so we can see eye-to=eye about that!

 

Ok, so I've been thinking about what I really want. Here is a child who is basically very good at grammar but still makes some errors (going between you and one in an essay is her current one), who is well read and can do the 6 sentence shuffle if she is pressed, who can take a maxim and write a response to it, who is already very analytical and logical (actually more of a math than a literary mind). So what is it I want her to do? So I sat and thought through this a bit. I really like the progym since it's a systematic way to write. Also, she is going to me going through MP's Material Logic I and II (God-willing!) this upcoming year. I looked at Leanne's notes on the kinds of questions she asks her class to get them thinking about what they are going to write (basically the canon of invention). Then I reconsidered the Corbett book which I read this past spring, and thought about SWB's writing tapes.

 

Maybe I don't *need* anything! Maybe I just need to make sure that we go through R&S8 this spring (more as a check and to cover the finer points than anything else), make sure I focus on outlining and notetaking skills, but then focus on the invention aspect of writing which would be intertwined with the logic class. Maybe I don't need a "program" but instead I need to take the time to figure out what my goals are for the year, and then figure out, given all this "education" I have gotten, exactly what we need to do.

 

Please feel free to respond! Thjis is sort of thinking out loud! And I'm not putting Wordsmith down at all--in fact, I *liked* it very much for my up and coming 5th grader! Also, it's much more reasonable than Bravewriter! Your thoughts, if you will?

 

Jeri

[PeterPan]

I think you could take this whole thing and go over to the high school board and ask about RHETORIC done the WTM way and get a lot of responses. Or do a search over there for rhetoric the WTM way. You sound exactly on-track, but you're too ahead of me for me to be any more help. :)

[jeri]

For both listening and the suggestion to go over to the h.s. board. (I keep forgetting that I am posting to the curriculum board and my dd is just getting older!)

 

jeri