Math Questions from a newbie

[Tiramisu]

I've been lurking for the last week or so and have found this forum to be such an amazing resource. Now I've finally registered and can ask my first question...

 

I have a 12 year old who came out of 5th grade in public school and Everyday Math last year. She placed in Saxon 1/2 but I decided to have her do 87 because I feared she had gaps. That level was a good move, but Saxon was not a good choice...BOY, DO I WISH I FOUND THIS FORUM LAST YEAR! Okay, having got that out of my system...

 

We ditched Saxon just over halfway through the book. She was getting A's on her tests but math went from being her favorite to her least favorite subject. (FYI: She was always in the high math group in school, but was famous for spacing out in class. She somehow got the answers right but didn't always know what problem or page the rest of the class was on. It was a bit of a class joke the teacher told me. Using Saxon, she always knew how to do the problems but would make mistakes in copying numbers.)

 

After Saxon, I had no idea what to do next but just happened to have a Math U See pre-algebra book sitting on my shelf which I had not used earlier because it seemed too easy. However, I was in a jam and let her start that. She loved that there was a manageable (perhaps too manageable) number of problems everyday. She's doing well, but I realize she needs something more rigorous since she was able to finish this book in about two months.

 

So, my question is what do we do in two weeks when she'll be done Math U See Pre-Algebra. I purchased a used copy of Singapore's New Syllabus Math from a lovely lady on this forum (Hi, Lisa). I've also got my hands on a cheap Jacobs. Then I requested Lial's, Foerster's and Dolciani from interlibrary loan. These are all names I learned on this forum. (Thank you all!)

 

I'll learn more as I preview these texts, but I'm still wondering about what I can do to best prepare her for the future considering she's twelve. She gets the concepts and can follow the steps to solve a problem but lacks attention in doing computations perhaps due to personality and immaturity. I hate to spend money on another book so I'm thinking of starting New Syllabus Math. The first several chapters will be a review for her and will apply what she already know to more difficult problems which seems like a good way to go. At the same time, I'm thinking, she knows pre-algebra, so why not start algebra with a traditional text and make things easier (cop out?).

 

I would appreciate any suggestions...Thanks!

[Storm Bay]

My main recommendation is to not be in a hurry at that age. If she goes quickly, so be it, but if not take your time. My dd was still 11 (but nearly 12) when she started Algebra. She "hates" math, so I gave her 2 years to do Algebra 1, which would still keep her on track to complete it by the end of Gr. 8. Her attention span just wasn't where it needed to be to do enough work each day to get through it in a year. At least not in Algebra. This allowed her to do half the number of problems per day she would have otherwise had to do.

 

My suggestion is to take a good look at those books, try them out and see what works. Although I have changed math programs before, most of the time we try to find something that works and stick to it. My eldest did 3 years of Saxon after I pulled her out of PS, but also some SM. My second started with Saxon 1, but it was not a good fit for either of us, so she's been with SM ever since. However, with Algebra, we've tried a number of thing so far, but I think maturity was the biggest drawback for dd. She'll be 13 this spring, and is showing improvement in staying on task with work (she likes to draw instead of work) so I'm hoping for maturity in the math area, too.

[Nan in Mass]

My poor son did Chicago in ps from k-4 and had huge gaps. We did Saxon 65 (I think?) at home in 5th and it filled in some of the gaps but he couldn't connect the dots. So then we backed up and began with Singapore PM3 in 6th. He is now (as a junior) finishing up NEM3 and will take pre-calc at the community college next year. Singapore "fixed" his inability to think mathematically and to apply his math to his science, etc. (something Singapore specifically teaches), but he struggles mightily with it. I'm glad we stuck with it, but I have to teach it carefully. He did average on the SATs (best we could hope for with this very slow working child who is obviously different in his brain wiring) and seems to do fabulously with any placement or achievement tests, despite consistently getting half the Singapore problems wrong. I can't tell you what to do, but that is our story.

 

HTH

-Nan

[Brenda in MA]

My junior (who used Terc Investigations gr. 2 - 4 in ps) has taken several practice ACT math sections and is doing much better on the math there than on the math on the SAT. He takes the real thing in a week, so we'll see if the practice tests are a good predictor of actual results.

 

Just something to consider if you think he would benefit from better standardized test scores,

Brenda

[Nan in Mass]

Mostly, we're relying on his CC classes to get him into college. He's now looking at something easier to get into than a nice little LAC, so I think he'd be ok with his current SAT scores. For our family, he bombed them, but if you look at national averages, he was average in math and writing, a real achievement for him, and did surprisingly well in the verbal, considering that he skipped a page. I think he'd probably do better in the ACT math, but doesn't the ACT also contain other subjects? In general, none of our family has been tempted to take the ACTs because we've better at figuring out puzzles than remembering things. Besides, here, SATs are much more common. None of us has really actually tried the ACTs, so maybe I'm all wrong about this, but I was nervous about having my son try anything that relied on his actually remembering something. On the other hand, he took one of those general knowledge academic achievement tests recently and did really well. Maybe it would be ok? I don't know. Maybe it would be worth trying a practice test. Let me know what happens when you take it for real.

Thanks,

Nan

[Nan in Mass]

My youngest dawdled for a year, too, between PM6 when he was 11 and NEM1 now, when he is 13. I, too, think it was an attention span thing.

[Brenda in MA]

I think he'd probably do better in the ACT math, but doesn't the ACT also contain other subjects? In general, none of our family has been tempted to take the ACTs because we've better at figuring out puzzles than remembering things. Besides, here, SATs are much more common.

Thanks,

Nan

Nan,

The ACT has 4 sections -- English - which is kind of like the SAT writing part that has passages with underlined parts where you have to pick the best of 4 choices to improve the passage; Math - one hour of questions covering BTWPrealgebra, Algebra, Geometry, & very basic Trig; Reading - 4 lengthy passages you read and answer questions; and Science - where the student reads and interprets tables and graphs of scientific data. The science test is more about the ability to read and interpret the data then it is about scientific knowledge in general.

 

Also, I know the SAT is more common around here -- my son has to go to the next town over to take the test. I think the ACT is becoming more widely accepted, though, because just in casual conversation in the last few weeks, I've discovered that a friend's and also a neighbor's ps'ed children are taking the ACT next week. I figure that if colleges say that either test is acceptable, then I'll have my ds take the one on which he'll score the best. If he does well on the ACT next week, I won't have him take the SAT. BTW, I was able to get a couple of ACT prep books out of the library through ILL, so the investment in the ACT option was rather low.

 

Oh -- thanks for your post a few days ago about the cc placement testing and your son's experiences there. My son went and took that test this past week, and he was nervous going into it. I told him about your son's experience and Beth's dd's experience with college classes, and it made him relax a bit. He'll be taking a few cc classes this coming fall.

 

Brenda

[Tiramisu]

In looking at New Syllabus Math, I really like the review of pre-algebra concepts. I don't think that kind of review could hurt. I've never seen NEM actually so I don't know how that compares. I was drawn to NSM because the description made it sound like a more user-friendly version of NEM, ironic since there's no solution manual. That part might get us in trouble later on if we decide to continue with it.

 

One question about NEM, from comments I've heard about it the questions are very challenging and long, requiring multiple steps. This scares me as dd's frustration tolerance is low, as well as her tendency to mis-write numbers as she jumps from one step to another. Would this be more of a problem using a Singapore math program versus an American program? And, is this something I should worry about? I'm wondering if Nan's son had this kind of problem.

 

I read on another thread that Jacob's is good for right-brained kids. If that's the case, it might be a good fit for my daughter. So many choices...and all of them seem good.

[Nikita]

Hi Kelli, I'm using NSM1 with my 13yo son. He's a dawdler, and not prone to detail work, and for those reasons he found NSM to be plenty challenging in those first few chapters of review. My feeling is that some of those problems are more difficult than they appear at first glance. At least, they are much harder than what he was doing in Singapore 6A and 6B last year. So I wouldn't skip them just to get to the algebra part of that text.

 

If you go with NSM, you should know that it doesn't follow the typical sequence of Algebra, Geometry, Trig - it switches around between topics so all of those are covered partially in each year. So it's best to start into it only if you are planning to continue with it. It's harder to switch out of NSM (or NEM) part-way through. I knew this going in, but now I'm realizing that if it turns out to be a poor fit for my son, then it will make it more difficult to switch texts.

 

I do really like NSM, and the lack of solutions manual is not an issue for me. Also, if you have trouble with a particular problem, you can always ask on the Singapore forums and get an answer there.

 

Nikita

[LisaNY]

I don't have anything to add right now, because I am still in the decision-making phase with my own, dd, but I did want to say "Hi", and welcome you to the board, Kelli! :seeya:

 

I plan to post when my dd and I do make a final decision, just in case it might be helpful to others in the same boat. :001_smile: