Ember58 Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 Hello - new to posting here but often read as you all seem so knowledgable. I'm in the UK and not a home educator - and actually work in education as a primary maths advisery teacher, but hope you won't hold that against me! I have a 13year old adopted DD. I adopted her when she was almost 8 and to cut a very long story short, she functioned very well at primary school - though before her behaviour stabilised in care at age 6.5, there were concerns of learning disablities but then learnt to read in about 4 months - from a non reader to slightly above average! Anyway at primary she functioned at high average across the board and average in maths. Since atsrting at high school (nearly 2 years ago now), things have deteriorated so that now she is average across the board but falling far far behind in maths...in fact i would say that she's gone backwards in maths - she really understands very little now. She has recently been diagnosed with ADHD and just started on concerta but it's too early to comment on it's impact though early indications suggest improvement in focus and less impulsive behaviour - but nothing too dramatic. I also had her assessed by an educational neuropsychologist and these are her WISC IV scores Verbal Comprehension subtests Perceptual Reasoning Subtests Similarities 11 Block Design 5 Vocabulary 10 Picture Concepts 13 Comprehension 8 Matrix Reasoning 8 Working Memory subtests Processing Speed subtests Digit Span 9 Coding 9 Letter-Number Sequencing 10 Symbol Search 10 This has given her FSIQ of 94, Verbal comprehension 98, perceptual reasoning 92, working memory 97, processing speed 97. As well as this, she was given a maths age of 9years 8 months and a standardised score of 76 which apparently is out of synch with her IQ and a Perceptual quotient score of 75 - I already new that her visual perception was shot pieces. As you have already read, I am a specialist primary maths teacher myself, but have no idea of how to go about remediating maths for my daughter when up until 2 years ago, she was keeping up fine! I would love any advice anyone could shed on this! Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiguirre Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 What has she been studying the last two years? A lot of kids struggle once they hit algebra because they aren't quite ready for that sort of logic. Another possibility is that some of her arithmetic is not as solid as it should be. I'd go back through arithmetic with a text like Lial's Basic College Math to make sure she understands fractions and decimals, then restart algebra. You may need to try several approaches to find one that fits. Obviously, my kids aren't at this point yet, but I suffered an algebra meltdown at 12, and this is what my dad did with me. Math was never my favorite subject but I did make it through Calculus in high school with respectable grades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 (edited) Hello - new to posting here but often read as you all seem so knowledgable. I'm in the UK and not a home educator - and actually work in education as a primary maths advisery teacher, but hope you won't hold that against me! I have a 13year old adopted DD. I adopted her when she was almost 8 and to cut a very long story short, she functioned very well at primary school - though before her behaviour stabilised in care at age 6.5, there were concerns of learning disablities but then learnt to read in about 4 months - from a non reader to slightly above average! Anyway at primary she functioned at high average across the board and average in maths. Since atsrting at high school (nearly 2 years ago now), things have deteriorated so that now she is average across the board but falling far far behind in maths...in fact i would say that she's gone backwards in maths - she really understands very little now. She has recently been diagnosed with ADHD and just started on concerta but it's too early to comment on it's impact though early indications suggest improvement in focus and less impulsive behaviour - but nothing too dramatic. I also had her assessed by an educational neuropsychologist and these are her WISC IV scores Verbal Comprehension subtests Perceptual Reasoning Subtests Similarities 11 Block Design 5 Vocabulary 10 Picture Concepts 13 Comprehension 8 Matrix Reasoning 8 Working Memory subtests Processing Speed subtests Digit Span 9 Coding 9 Letter-Number Sequencing 10 Symbol Search 10 This has given her FSIQ of 94, Verbal comprehension 98, perceptual reasoning 92, working memory 97, processing speed 97. As well as this, she was given a maths age of 9years 8 months and a standardised score of 76 which apparently is out of synch with her IQ and a Perceptual quotient score of 75 - I already new that her visual perception was shot pieces. As you have already read, I am a specialist primary maths teacher myself, but have no idea of how to go about remediating maths for my daughter when up until 2 years ago, she was keeping up fine! I would love any advice anyone could shed on this! Thank you Hmm. There is a lot of scatter on the subtests that doesn't show up on the composite scores. Those composite scores make her look like her IQ is pretty balanced across all levels, but the subtests suggest there may be something else going on. Here is a site that does a good job explaining the subtests. http://www.vdps.net/special/test.html The fact that comprehension (which involves social reasoning and may reflect social skills abilities), matrix reasoning, and block design are the ones that are lowest leads me to suspect something like nonverbal learning disability is at work, even though her picture completion brought up that composite score (the perceptual reasoning) . Kids with nonverbal learning disability do have trouble with higher level maths, such as algebra, which is often when a diagnosis of some sort is sought. They also have difficulty with social interactions (tend to be very naive, miss social cues on people's faces, understand language very literally not getting a lot of jokes, sarcasm, etc.) They also have difficulty with coordination and gross and fine motor skills. They may look like they have some ADHD, though by the teen years, hyperactivity tends to be replaced by hypoactivity. Kids with nonverbal LD are often very strong auditory learners. I would research this and go back to the person who did the evaluation and ask about that. I would also look for an explanation as to why the picture comprehension was high average compared to matrix design which was low average and block design, which was quite low. Be persistant about understanding the differences between these subtests so that you can get a better understanding of your dd's brain. Pepper the examiner with questions until you are satisfied. If he or she isn't sure, ask that it be discussed with colleagues. Even if she doesn't fit the whole syndrome of nonverbal LD, I'll bet that math methods that work for that would work for her. (Google teaching math to nonverbal learning disability) These kids work best following formatted "steps" because they may not be able to get the concepts. They also do well with auditory explanations and talking themselves through the steps. They may need a model to follow for a long time before being able to do a particular math operation without it. In the US, Rod and Staff math is very "step" oriented. They don't have an algebra book out yet. The good news is that algebra is not used much in real life other than by people in certain careers, so if she understood her math up until that point, she will be functional in math. There is not a lot of research on improving the underlying visual/perceptual congnitive skills. Brainware Safari is a software program that works on these. You could check out Audiblox as well. I think that is UK based. Playing Tetris is supposed to help and has some research base. For my ds with visual/perceptual difficulties, I've done the Brainware Safari and Vision therapy. I also make sure he's playing games like Rush Hour, checkers, chess that work on spatial skills. I also allow video games for that practice. Edited May 7, 2010 by Laurie4b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ember58 Posted May 7, 2010 Author Share Posted May 7, 2010 Thank you - this is very interesting info! I did in fact look at the possibility of NVLD last summer before the ed psych report but I ruled it out because she didn't really show all of the features...She is very sociable and does have lots of friends, though she does fall out and get bored of them quite quickly. She is not actually too bad at basic algebra for the very reason you have suggested - she can pick up rules quite easily but has no real understanding. She learnt her tables very quickly and easily aged 8, but using and applying these skills is tough - she doesn't get fractions or how she can use her tables facts to help her with fractions or even that fractions and tables are related! In fact I think that her ability to see patterns generally in maths is fairly non existant but because she can learn procedures, she does have areas of ability. There are now just too many procedures for her to remember when she can't see the connections. Compounding this problem is the UK curriculum which is heavily focussed on problem solving and using and applying! When she was assessed for ADHD, she was given a Qeeg. This showed that she had irregular beta waves in the frontal lobe and some differences in the posterior (can't quite remember without looking it up). Birth family definitely displayed ADHD type symptoms, but as you know, comorbid conditions are very common. I will definitely read up again on NVLD. I love the games you suggested, but unfortunately getting DD to engage would be like pulling teeth. Finally she has moved from hyper to hypo - no motivation for anything even though she is a very talented athlete (gross motor skills are great but fine motor is also shot to pieces) Anyway really helpful - thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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