Dyslexia, Dysgraphia, and WWE/FLL

[kah]

My DD is 9, in 3rd grade and is struggling greatly with writing in a public school gifted program- for which she qualified in English, ironically. We're waiting for an appointment for private testing- the school officially doesn't see evidence of a learning disability. I'm not an expert, certainly, but she seems very similar to what I've heard described as a "stealth dyslexic."

 

She seems to be a good reader (reads constantly, finishes books quickly, has enjoyed all 7 of the Chronicles of Narnia, for example.) Still she is reluctant to read aloud, mispronounces unfamiliar words (Hadridge for Hagrid, Mafloy for Malfoy, Dobah-hug for Degobah), is reluctant to retell what she's read (i.e. do even basic narration which I gather is expected of first graders who follow the WTM outline), and struggles to answer anything beyond basic knowledge/comprehension questions. All this, despite the fact that she can talk about the story at great length in a casual setting, and easily can pass the basic did-you-read-the-book computer quizzes.

 

Her handwriting is quite poor at times, below-average at best, and even in cursive she manages to reverse letters. Numbers are inconsistently reversed too- I used to point out the reversals along with a typed-on-the-page correct one, and she didn't see the difference between them. This has improved some, but at 9 1/2 and end of 3rd grade, my understanding is that it's no longer something that is in the range of typical development.

 

I want to work with her this summer, and with her end-of-1st, 6 year old brother. I have Handwriting Without Tears' 1st grade printing book, which we've just started. Based on any experiences you've had or advice you've received, would it be helpful for her to go back and start with FLL 1 & 2, WWE, and work through those? I'm also looking at MCP Spelling Workout B, in the hopes of reinforcing the phonics rules. (She learned very quickly with Hooked on Phonics when she was 5, but moved so quickly to "real reading" that I didn't push through to the end of the program. Mistake in hindsight? Who knows...)

 

Is there something better that I could do with her on our own?

[ElizabethB]

The sight words and incomplete phonics from HOP may have caused some guessing habits.

 

I would give the MWIA and the New Elizabethian test from my reading test page:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/readinggradeleve.html

 

If she misses more than 1 word on the phonics portion of the MWIA (a good trained phonics reader will not miss a single one) or reads the phonetic words slower than the Holistic words, she can probably benefit from some remedial phonics and nonsense words.

 

It just takes a few minutes to find out. I'll have further suggestions if that is indeed her problem.

[kah]

Thank you, Elizabeth! I'll probably hold off for a few days- she has major state testing coming up at school this week, and I don't want to throw her off.

 

Also, would going through any of those affect testing by a psychologist a month or so from now? I'm not sure what batteries they use- I know she had the WISC-IV a year and a half ago. One of the "reasons" the school gave for not testing was that different tests have different windows during which they can't be repeated. They suggested that if they gave her one of the tests that the psych would have liked to use, it would prevent him from using it too.

 

It's very interesting to read through the different tests you have there!

[kah]

Another observation about her, prompted by the instructions for the MWIA...

 

She can look at a word and spell it out loud (i.e. reading the letters) and read the individual letters incorrectly.

 

As an example:

She has on her paper: "lovley"

I say, "read me what's on your paper"

She reads, "L-O-V-E-L-Y"

I point out the difference, and she argues, "I DID say L-E-Y"

(Which, of course, descends into no you didn't/yes I did/she cries, I sigh... ;) )

 

She finds spelling words easier to do on paper than orally- she doesn't want to do practice them at all and I thought orally would be easier and quicker. But when she spells a word out loud, we run into the same ley/ely debate, with the same result.

 

I have been trying hard to have her spell the words syllable by syllable, and have tried to explain to her that it helps in figuring out the sounds. She tends to read them back to me 3 letters a a time:

 

sub-scr-ipt-ion

 

Whereas in my mind, it's:

 

sub- scrip- tion

[Laurie4b]

My DD is 9, in 3rd grade and is struggling greatly with writing in a public school gifted program- for which she qualified in English, ironically. We're waiting for an appointment for private testing- the school officially doesn't see evidence of a learning disability. I'm not an expert, certainly, but she seems very similar to what I've heard described as a "stealth dyslexic."

 

She seems to be a good reader (reads constantly, finishes books quickly, has enjoyed all 7 of the Chronicles of Narnia, for example.) Still she is reluctant to read aloud, mispronounces unfamiliar words (Hadridge for Hagrid, Mafloy for Malfoy, Dobah-hug for Degobah), is reluctant to retell what she's read (i.e. do even basic narration which I gather is expected of first graders who follow the WTM outline), and struggles to answer anything beyond basic knowledge/comprehension questions. All this, despite the fact that she can talk about the story at great length in a casual setting, and easily can pass the basic did-you-read-the-book computer quizzes.

 

Her handwriting is quite poor at times, below-average at best, and even in cursive she manages to reverse letters. Numbers are inconsistently reversed too- I used to point out the reversals along with a typed-on-the-page correct one, and she didn't see the difference between them. This has improved some, but at 9 1/2 and end of 3rd grade, my understanding is that it's no longer something that is in the range of typical development.

 

I want to work with her this summer, and with her end-of-1st, 6 year old brother. I have Handwriting Without Tears' 1st grade printing book, which we've just started. Based on any experiences you've had or advice you've received, would it be helpful for her to go back and start with FLL 1 & 2, WWE, and work through those? I'm also looking at MCP Spelling Workout B, in the hopes of reinforcing the phonics rules. (She learned very quickly with Hooked on Phonics when she was 5, but moved so quickly to "real reading" that I didn't push through to the end of the program. Mistake in hindsight? Who knows...)

 

Is there something better that I could do with her on our own?

 

You should know that there are few professionals who would use the phrase "stealth dyslexia." The word dyslexia means difficulty with reading, and it is a word whose meaning gets bandied about.

 

What Eide and Eide describe as stealth dyslexia is dyslexia / dysgraphia in smart kids. The kids can use a superior verbal ability to kind of "fill in the blanks."

 

I can't see that FLL would help at all.

 

Eide& Eide are both physicians, but their opinions about dyslexia are not widely held throughout the professional world. That doesn't necessarily mean they are wrong--but I would recommend balancing what they say with Sally Shaywitz' book, Overcoming Dyslexia, which has very well supported research. Eide& Eide would recommend a developmental optometrist for some of the other issues, but I also caution you with a quote from their book: "At present, there is less agreement on how to treat the visual abnormalities associated with dyslexia than the phonological deficits discussed above..." That's your cue that the research isn't there to back the recommendations, BUT there aren't any interventions with a strong research base, either.

 

IEW writing program works well for kids with writing difficulties.

 

I would teach your dd how to keyboard.

 

Spelling is a written procedure. We don't spell orally. So if it is confusing her (as opposed to possibly helping as in a child with a stronger auditory than visual memory), don't do it. It's better for her to work on developing the ability to write the words, which she prefers anyway. Let her type if she doesn't like the handwriting part. Most of us type nearly to the exclusion of handwriting now anyway.

 

I would go to a neuropsychologist for an evaluation. You want to see how those things you're observing play out on a WISC-IV (and IQ test) and that will help you get her services she needs in school anyway. Occupational therapists are the professionals who work with handwriting issues and reversals, so I would get that eval too. You can try a developmental optometrist, but let's just say the mileage varies. Some people feel that it really helps their child; others see no difference. We say no difference in the whole skipping words thing, nor in spelling. I'll see when they do the post-testing if there was any improvement in visual processing.

 

A cheap thing to try as a homeschooler is BRainware Safari. You can get it for $69 I think through HOmeschool Buyers' Co-op. You can google it and sign up is free. It has many activities aimed at developing visual processing skills.

[ElizabethB]

Also, would going through any of those affect testing by a psychologist a month or so from now? I'm not sure what batteries they use- I know she had the WISC-IV a year and a half ago. One of the "reasons" the school gave for not testing was that different tests have different windows during which they can't be repeated. They suggested that if they gave her one of the tests that the psych would have liked to use, it would prevent him from using it too.

 

IQ tests like the WISC have a practice effect. All the tests I have links to are various reading tests, you can take them without interference.

 

I have been trying hard to have her spell the words syllable by syllable, and have tried to explain to her that it helps in figuring out the sounds. She tends to read them back to me 3 letters a a time:

 

sub-scr-ipt-ion

 

Whereas in my mind, it's:

 

sub- scrip- tion

 

Whether it's actual dyslexia or problems that mimic dyslexia caused by sight words, Webster's Speller may help. It has words divided by syllables, if she can't naturally divide them, it should be helpful. The link below explains how to use it, and also these threads:

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70153

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97408&highlight=webster%27s+speller