fralala
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Posts posted by fralala
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If you like the idea of teaching math conceptually, one option is just to get a book like Liping Ma's Knowing and Teaching Elementary Mathematics, or to try to find a cheap used copy of one of Singapore's teacher or homeschool manuals for your year, or just to Google as you go. What you've got-- the Miquon and R&S-- sounds like enough for me otherwise.
This works if you have a little extra time to think about math yourself, but don't necessarily want to juggle extra curricula.
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Well, the problem with those scripts is that some people are just [word that I probably shouldn't use to describe a child] and will actually feel like they've won if you tell them straight up, "Hey, I felt really sad when you said that blah blah blah." It's a fine script for relationships among loved ones. Catty kids? No. Save the talk about how you're crying inside, save the tears, for your mom, or your true friends. Roll your eyes and whatever the mean girls.
If your daughter is absolutely unable to choose not to follow this or other rules, I'd bring her home to protect her. I'm guessing that the reason other kids survive socially at this school is because they are able to do so, and if she's the only one who can't, she's going to get targeted and picked on even more. Working on her rigidity at this point and her inability to adapt to different social situations is probably more worth your time than trying to change the school's disciplinary policies. (And this is not a defense of those policies; they seem horrible. But I'm not sure fighting them will help your daughter in the short or long run, as noble as it might be.)
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Hugs. This is my 7 year old, too.
I know you have no time, but have you read The Explosive Child?
Trust when things make your son worst and don't do them, even when everyone else says that the reason he acts like he does is because you're not doing those things! It's hard to give up the things that society has conditioned us should work, even when they so clearly do not with these kids.
I'm not going to critique any of your interactions, because man, I would not have the courage to type out some of the fruitless and unproductive ways I've instinctively responded to my own kid. But I think the fact that you are noting these things and making connections between his difficult moments and what precedes them is going to help you a lot. I would note that being called smart, or being told what she should be able to do or feel or how she should be able to act, often escalate my own child's feelings of emotional helplessness. (And yes, I have a she, but given that I could really relate to these interactions and the results, I wanted to respond with, at the least, empathy and support.)
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Although I agree that neither diagramming nor memorizing these specific labels is necessary for all sixth graders (let alone all people), on behalf of teaching grammar I would like to say that there is a group of people who find doing both immensely pleasurable and elucidating.
(I am not one of them, but if you sense what you're doing is giving your child a greater appreciation for and understanding of language, that would be my gauge of how much to continue. If it's doing the opposite, it's not only unnecessary; it seems to me it is counterproductive.)
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My kids are SOOOO distractible. That is the main issue. Isolating them in a room with no distraction helps, but then they get lonely. (They even get distracted when I am working "at elbow" as other suggest. They keep trying to chat with me about things and I have to constantly redirect them.)
It takes them a lot longer than most kids to do all work.
I like your idea, but I am not sure if 4 problems would be enough practice for them.
Oh, yay! So this doesn't sound like a math problem to me, actually. (As someone whose two daughters are very, very chatty.)
I found I had to tell them straight out that during math practice (and other kinds of written work), we are not just working on the skill on the piece of paper in front of them. We are working on strengthening their executive functions. And I actually gave them a list of executive functions and we worked together to identify the skills we're addressing when we do pencil-and-paper practice.
For them, a math worksheet might be relatively easy, but their capability for inhibition-- to inhibit thoughts not related to the work, or vocalizing these thoughts-- might be low.
So I'd actually just address this first and see if the math issues go away. I have a bunch of sand timers for 1, 3, 5, 10, and 15 minutes, because the visual helps us, but other timers would probably work just as well. While it's fairly common to use timers to keep kids on task, I think it's important to be clear that right now they are working on their executive skills, and you are not going to be penalizing them or rewarding them for the math they do, but rather for how well they stay attentive, focused, and on task.
When I'm sitting next to my kids, I find it helpful to actually be working on some kind of math of my own. When our timers run out, we stand up and stretch and don't chat but do something that refocuses us before resetting the timer. (My kids hate breathing exercises, but I find breathing exercises are helpful, so I try to come up with sneaky ways to breathe-- seeing who can blow a pencil off the table, or exhaling on the window and drawing pictures.)
I'm sure you've done stuff like this in the past, but I think it's important to reiterate that you can't learn focused attention by spending hours daily on math. The consequence for not being able to focus can't involve longer amounts of time spent on something-- you have to go back and start really, really small and let your kids know that's all there's going to be. And stick to it. FWIW, I've found most estimates of how much math kids should be doing at certain ages are probably for kids who are unfocused and getting distracted and who need constant parental reminders instead of learning to self-regulate themselves.
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I'm curious what they each have to say about it-- have you asked each kid (separately! if they're like mine at least) what's up with all the errors? I also think they are demonstrating that they do need you at their elbows. Sometimes just a supportive presence leads to greater diligence.
I love a lot of the ideas above, but since we don't know your kids, ultimately it's hard to know what's going on. I'd just avoid bringing up the "going on for years", and maybe pick one week to go back and look at the number of wrong answers (and track amount of time spent) each day.
I do know one thing happens in my home, which is that because I can see how much my children understand conceptually, and because I loathe drill, sometimes it is hard for me to require the amount of practice that can prevent a lot of careless mistakes. Sometimes I can prefer to choose the "they're making mistakes because they're bored and this is too easy for them" explanation to the "this may be conceptually easy for them, but they still need to solidify their calculation skills so that can become more automatic even when it's easy". (Because, honestly, solidifying calculation skills is not all that mentally stimulating for any of us, and can feel like treading water, and we like progress! around here.)
But that's us and so it's just speculation. I mean, your kids might tell you it really is too boring for them and ask for you to give them something really challenging, and then get every single tiny detail right. They might say that love spending extra time on math every day and corrections are fun for them! Or they are hopeless about even catching their mistakes so they don't even try. Or they're struggling. Or they don't care, at all, and need some kind of incentive.
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I will just warn you that, while I love c-rods, Gattegno, and Miquon, they are not for all kids. Alas. I have one very abstract thinker and one very visual thinker, and both quickly grew impatient with concrete manipulatives. (I, meanwhile, still sit at the table and play with them with my preschooler.) So if you have a way to test that before investing in it, do.
As for games, why not just let him win? I wouldn't say this for a 7 year old or older, but for a young 5 year old? If it's between enjoying math games and not, at least you get to model sportsmanship. (To some degree. As PeterPan mentioned, our kids are going to notice sooner or later that we don't exactly enjoy losing either!)
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Not sure if it's what you're looking for, or could be a component of what you use, but my kids who love SOTW also really enjoy the CKLA units. I've found they work well for family read-alouds with combined ages, and the book lists can be good both to go further and offer my kids for further investigation. They are essentially unit studies, though, rather than a single resource, and in that regard involve more parental planning ahead than SOTW. If you wanted to use them for a year of American history, you might look at:
Native Americans - Regions and Cultures
European Exploration of North America
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Doodling in ASL class is rude. It's like sitting there with your fingers in your ears, eyes closed, muttering "lalalalala."
Beginners classes may be horrifically dull, but she should watch anyway because it is practice for receptive skills. I also think the teacher should move a bit faster, since she (?) has taught the students not to bother doing their homework and that shouldn't be her problem any more than your daughter's.
Yes. Your daughter may be an auditory learner, but in this particular context, maybe it would be good to challenge herself with what she could do if unable to invoke that privilege?
With that said, if the teacher has asked her to limit her participating by not signing, I'd fight for her. Esp. if the stone suggestion was to tie up her hands and your daughter was using doodling so that she wouldn't be tempted to "speak" using ASL. I'd get my kid out of any language class that asked them not to practice the target language, since the whole reason I sign them up is to get them speaking. (And I recognize this is a problem in some language classes-- some kids are shy, some are more enthusiastic and study more, but that second group can also be helpful to the learning of the first, and to creating an environment in which everybody is willing to experiment, join in, and look silly sometimes.)
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I'd say that if your kids are the kind who want more coloring/labeling-type activities than the SOTW activity book provides, this is a fantastic resource.
In terms of providing additional content or learning experiences, it wasn't so valuable to my own kids who love reading (and being read to), but would rather come up with their own drawings and crafts. (In other words, it's still sitting on the shelf virtually untouched just in case the youngest ones turn out to love it.)
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Yeah I don't think kids are turning to porn for education.
They may initially view it because someone showed them something or they stumbled on it by accident or they were curious.
Regular viewing? That happens because it activates sexual arousal and pleasure centers in the brain.
And that can lead to addiction and a need for MORE and more hardcore/exciting/different stuff to achieve the same effect.
And yeah human exploitation concerns aside it is wiring in unrealistic and damaging patterns of sexual expectation.
Porn has no redeeming qualities; it's just a way for distributors to get rich by exploiting yet one more human frailty and destroying lives and relationships in the process.
But when you're curious about something, and you go looking for answers, doesn't that demonstrate a desire for education?
As for the class itself described in the article, I thought it sounded like a reasonable approach for teenagers. The problem with some of these black-and-white paths are that they can go in two directions-- "I am never, ever going to do that because it's morally wrong and dangerous" and "I better not let anyone ever catch me doing that again." And unfortunately, the second cuts people off from help.
Ultimately, I guess the question is whether we educate our children about the things we feel very sure of on an ethical basis by tapping into their deep sense of personal morality and their thinking brains, or whether we think there are just some topics we can't trust them or ourselves to even have nuanced discussions about. And this is a personal choice, and probably divides us all along the same lines as sex education in general, or alcohol/drugs education, or end of life decisions.
As an aside, I'm not completely sure that everything you said about porn is universally true, although it may describe the experiences of some people, and sometimes I think we who are vehemently against porn undermine ourselves with blanket statements like this. I know very little about this, so will only demonstrate my ignorance by speaking further, but I did have a friend in college who was all into a kind of feminist performance art that I personally might label porn, if I ever watched it. Is the lesbian erotica another college friend writes porn, or do we only count visual sources (which tend to appeal more to men)?
I thought the class described in the article did a fine job revealing the filthy, unpleasant realities beyond what the kids had seen in a way that made the kids agents of their own improved ethical decision-making. Ideally, we will all approach this kind of thing with our kids before they ever encounter it, ideally none of our children will stumble across it accidentally or at a friends' house, but for this particular population that has already seen it-- I think it's necessary to help them process and understand what they've seen, and it sounds to me like the class was doing it in a manner that de-eroticized it. (Help me with a better word if you can!) For the rest of us, we all get to decide how we want to talk to our kids about it, and for me part of it is trying to satisfy their curiosity and educating them about sex so that they will never secretly, and feeling slightly ashamed, Google the kind of question that turns up Bad Stuff.
(I would have totally googled, "normal teenage girls breasts" or something like that as a teenager. Or rather Yahoo'ed.)
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SWB does make a good point in Rethinking School, too, that those of us in the U.S. might rightly look around and ask whether schools are living up to their project of "socializing" Americans. (She does not say that should be their job, by the way, but it is one of their roles historically.)
In a way, socialization is really acculturation, since even "social skills" are not universal. It's why I have to "socialize" my kids differently to prepare them for visits abroad. It's why sometimes people who behave perfectly according to the rules of their culture can appear gauche when interacting with outsiders. It's why kids who are socialized according to the contemporary American public school model can seem a foreign species to my parents, who were given a different set of rules.
My kids would almost certainly need time to be "socialized" -- to learn the culture and appropriate behaviors-- when entering a school setting. Even in classes with their schooled peers, they've had to learn that certain things are and aren't cool to say or do.
Not having friends, though, or being the recipient of consistent unkindness-- it's lonely and depressing, no matter where you are.
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Edited: toddler hit send early. He's letting me know it's time for breakfast!
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The other thing that I've found can help rehabilitate a hated curriculum is having the confidence to only assign the problems my kid needs. Maybe you already do this, but ANY curriculum might become torture for a kid who is forced to do every problem regardless of demonstrated competency or mastery. (With the exception of Beast, which sounds like it might be perfect for him.) Singapore might be decent. Math Mammoth, which I love, could be fine as long as you don't assign every problem (otherwise the number of problems on each page could create another situation like the one you've got on your hands).
The problem with choosing BA is of course the release schedule for level 2...some people do use the 3 level as the sole curriculum for their third graders, but I found that my third grader needed a basic foundation in third grade math concepts before attempting some of Beast's more challenging chapters.
I love your temporary solution, by the way, and it's awesome that your son's attitude is still so math positive despite his loathing of the old curriculum.
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Why send my kids to school to get picked on when they can get picked on just as well at home?
Ha. I think perhaps this goes well with the above post, which appeared just as I was about to click Post.
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Good question and one I've wondered myself, because my kids love elderberry but I worry that because it has (potential) medicinal properties it might also be harmful in large doses. (One effect it has on us is increased sweating, especially during the night-- like, wash-the-sheets sweating.)
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Nope, better to rest at home and not risk exposing others to my germs. Especially when it comes to the pediatrician, since our office is small and we almost always encounter newborns there. However, if I'm concerned I don't hesitate to call and ask the nurse or doctor about the worrying symptoms. When they've advised coming in, it has been to check for strep. Otherwise they tell me what kinds of things would merit either coming in or going to the ER.
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I think her rigidity has some to do with right and wrong but a lot more to do with promised rewards that
are constantly never earned. She wants the reward at the end of the week that the teacher wants to give but the classroom behavior always interferes. I’ve promised her rewards on Friday if the class doesn’t earn it. She still gets upset though.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I really hate the rewards thing and would probably want to do the same thing in your situation, but could this actually be undermining her view of herself as someone who can handle disappointment?
I don't think you can counteract the injustice of the system with a consolation prize, but you can acknowledge that this makes her feel crappy and reassure her that this bad situation is not forever, the bad feeling is not forever, and you are there to help her cope with the disappointment/frustration.
I'm not saying you shouldn't do something special for her on Friday. I would totally make it ice cream sundae night or movie night or mother-daughter time or whatever. Poor kid. But this isn't going to change anything that happened in the classroom. It's just going to give her that bedrock to come home to, where she knows she's in a safe place where love and support are unconditional and you're strong enough to take all her bad feelings and hold them and then help her release them. (And if you're not and you can't, that's normal too; I know I struggle with being strong enough for my anxious kid, and sometimes being strong just means being strong enough to know when it's time to seek outside help.)
[Edited for word salad, hopefully somewhat less muddled now.]
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I have known plenty. I worked in a private school that was predominately Asian and many tiger parents existed within our school culture. Most of the students went to school all day and then were in Kumon classes or other intensive tutor programs/music programs after school all week and weekends. Our school was preschool through highschool and I saw this schedule just as much in preschool as I did at the elementary and up grades. Parents would ask to have them loaded up with homework and if they weren't reading by 5 yo meetings were called and they would place them with our reading specialist for intensive practice.
I will say this, I am in no way condoning it as it seems so harsh but these kids seemed perfectly happy, jovial, popular and adjusted. They loved their parents, their parents loved them, they were calm kids who worked hard. In our school we had alot of anxiety issues from kids but for whatever reason our Asian students existed none while I saw copious mental health struggles in many of our other students. I have always found this to be beyond understanding. In fact, I had one student come to me with concerns about a classmate who they felt was exhibiting depression and cutting behavior. This student said "I don't understand white kids and all of their issues. Their life is so easy and yet they cannot complete the basic life tasks without issue. I think it's because their parents give them no purpose" I also had kids rotating through my office with constant tears and complaints about their parents but not the kids in tiger parent homes. Now maybe this was due to fear or shame but again, these kids exhibited no signs of discomfort or anxiousness around their parents.
What is interesting too is that in Japan, Korea, and China there is increased suicides due to this pressure which I feel has something to do with school acceptance rates. In the states, even with the same pressure put on these kids, we don't see the same suicides which could be due to more of an ability to get a spot in a good school.
None of this is meant to sound stereotyping. This was just observations from one school and kids from a very select group of parents since most of our parents worked at Microsoft, Amazon, and various other tech positions. They were a wealthy subset of parents in the PNW plus it was predominately Chinese, Korean and Indian families making up about 70% of the school with the other 30% being white, Hispanic and black.
As you can see, after working their 3 years I am still perplexed by what I saw. It changed how I perceived and interpreted other people/cultures parenting because I think what is collectively seen as normal within a culture group isn't necessarily seen as bad by the young people within that group where it would be within a group who doesn't typically exhibit that type of parenting.
My aunt is Japanese and she has raised my cousins this way. They are successful, adjusted and loving men who love their parents. My aunt thinks people who do not push and discipline their kids are abusive because she sees it like someone not watering and providing sunlight for a plant...therefore not letting it reach its potential.
This topic triggered something in my head bouncing around for ages since my time at that school. It is a topic that has always fascinated me since it is so far removed from our predominate culture in the U.S.
This is a helpful observation. And kind of reminds me both of the studies on the effects of (parental) corporal punishment on different ethnic groups and on my anecdotal experience, which is that when children experience something as a culturally normative practice, they are less likely to see it as detrimental.
I will also say, because I am part of an Indian family, that none among us are tiger parents, or whatever the Asian stereotype is-- however, I do think perhaps if any stereotype is true, it would be the one about greater emphasis on respect for teachers and adults as well as greater respect for school and learning as a whole. Good relationships with adults, the belief that elders have something to teach and aren't just boring dinosaurs-- rather than intense pressure/competition-- are what I believe create an optimal environment for learning.
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How about freedom from fear?! Speaking for myself, I know my educational standards were high because I never wanted my daughter to be poor -- to worry about paying one bill instead of another, having to live in an unsafe environment, and having to pick the deeply discounted food over healthier things.
I had a lot of fear growing up. I had to work very hard because my primary education was terrible. I missed a lot of things that were common knowledge in American culture (which wasn't mine). I wanted to ensure a level playing field for my daughter and save her from the horribly embarrassing moments I had experienced.
So the point was making life easier for her (and me), driven by my own fear at knowing the costs if you don't fit in educational and socially. Being an outsider in America leaves lasting scars financially, educationally, and emotionally.
Yes, I think this is what motivates many parents, traditionally. It's what motivated mine.
However, when I worked with the homeless population (in the U.S.), what struck me was how many people did have families who wanted to help them. They had potential support systems. They had people trying to help them get jobs. But they were limited, stuck, because of ongoing mental health issues.
I don't mean to make any blanket statements about those who are in poverty in the U.S. in general, and it is a very different story in other countries. But while academic and job success is important, if the path to success compromises an individual's mental health, there are going to be significant roadblocks ahead.
There is a difference between "I want to make sure my children are employable" and "My kids must be RICH."
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On grade level, it is definitely for gifted students.
However, if your goal is building enthusiasm for math with the comic book format and problems that show the depth of just what math can be (and as long as you're not leaving a child on her own with these problems, but approaching them as an opportunity for math talk and teamwork), I just think the books are amazing. And many of us use the books a year (or more!) behind where our children are according to grade for these purposes. But yes, definitely not as a sole curriculum.
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But it's like pulling teeth and I think I might be doing it wrong?
LOL. Nope.
Maybe he just needs to be drawn out more, because it's normal for kids at this age to give very poor or brief narrations, but if he is one of those children (like one of mine) who is just resistant to the idea of narration When I Say So, How I Say So in general, then do keep in mind that there other ways to approach the same skill.
I've found it helpful for my kid who is hugely resistant to the idea of narration to take more of a loose, Julie Bogart inspired attitude toward the whole thing. I have to catch her when she begins telling me about something-- something she loves, like a movie or a game she has played or anything-- and ask the kind of questions that help her describe to me precisely and accurately that which she wants to convey.
You might not need to do this, because your kid sounds like a perfectly normal little person who just needs to continue working at this skill. But I did want to mention the above because narration is not a one-size-fits-all skill, and like most things in homeschooling, it would be a mistake to assume that if you don't see some degree of growing willingness to try, there is something wrong with what your doing OR with your child.
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Have you had a big sit-down with the whole family and expressed this to everybody? Not just your husband?
Sending several (or all) of the kids to school is one potential solution, or half-solution, but you need a whiteboard and a marker and a whole list. Jot 'em all done, even if they're ridiculous.
We can all offer ideas, but the ones that will work best are the ones that actually come from your family. Your only job is to clearly state the problem to them, accept all potential solutions, and remain open-minded.
Have you ever done something like this before?
Double digit kids are a lot of work from one perspective. From another, they are a great team!
(You don't actually need a whiteboard. A sheet of paper works too. I just like it, especially for my little kids, if they can see that I'm writing everything down because once they see they're not being judged, they often come up with the most creative and imaginative ideas. After you're done, you can sort through them, asking, "Would this work?" for each one. Everyone should be clear when brainstorming that you're not actually going to do all of these, and some will get crossed out right away-- for instance, Everybody quits cleaning the house and Mom just learns to live in a dump. But we cross things out with a sense of humor.)
Even if you don't hammer out a perfect solution, I've found I walk away from this kind of problem-solving session so much more satisfied than if I just bring a problem and a potential solution to my spouse and he says, "Sure, honey, whatever you say." You'd think the latter would be more satisfying, but...nope. Sometimes we need to be heard and hear everybody working to come up with ideas on our behalf!
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I'm sorry about your best friend. :grouphug:
I love the picture book Today and Today by Kobayashi Issa. For all ages.
Amazon - what should I do?
in The Chat Board
Posted
In my experience with Amazon customer service, this won't happen. No matter what their system says.
I've had a few issues with their tracking/delivery info. being off, but not with them disbelieving my claims to customer service.