[How does one provide a classical education? Circe Institute lovers?]

Are you familiar w/Sonlight? This thread http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=358108 has a lot of people describing how they go about putting together their own plans. These descriptions are very similar to how I have done things in the past.

 

Why am I rejecting that approach now? B/c wonderful children's classics like The Princess and the Goblin get overlooked and by-passed in order to make room for historical fiction. I have always read books like those for bedtime stories, but the number read is low compared to the high number of historical fiction we have read (or that I have assigned them to read). To what end? Yes, it creates an appreciation for the historical time period, but it is at the expense of the elevated language, vivid imagination conjured by the truly great books for children. It boils down to which is actually more important in the formation of a child's cognitive development?

 

Spending the last couple of yrs completely absorbed in great literature w/my younger kids has been enlightening. I have witnessed growth in vocabulary, searching for allusions, appreciation for literary techniques (pure enjoyment in how something is written, not necessarily analyzing the writing. This is a quote that my dd fell in love w/just from encountering the words on the page b/c of the images the evoked for her: I hied me away to the woods--away back into the sun-washed alleys carpeted with fallen gold and glades where the moss is green and vivid yet. THe woods are getting ready to sleep--they are not yet asleep but they are disrobing and are having all sorts of little bed-time conferences and whisperings and good-nights. That type of writing is not found in the majority of historical fiction. Setting/plot/dialogue are more the focus vs. the use of language. (If you have ever read any of Henty's books, my kids can't stand them. They say it is the same story w/different characters simply moved into a new setting.....:tongue_smilie: )

 

What I mean by #2 is that my literature selections from here on out are going to be selected by the merits of the piece of literature. For some works, like AGG, I can build history off of the literature. (actually an entire yrs worth of literature and history.) Annotated children's classics give background information that can lead down numerous paths from the allusions/references w/in the story itself. (Alice in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass have more text for the annotations than for the stories themselves!!) In other cases, history and lit simply won't be interconnected in any deliberate way.

 

Does that help? (there are a lot of distractions around me, so I'm sorry if it isn't very coherent.)

 

Thank you so much for your response. I am currently finishing my first year of homeschooling and find myself wanting what you describe. Especially as I listen/read to people like Andrew Kern, James Taylor, Charlotte Mason, and others. Sometimes what people describe as Classical Education can have a "cold reason" feel to it (that's a term I've heard Kern use and it has stuck with me), and it's just not what I want. I really do appreciate the wisdom of the homeschool veterans out there like yourself.

 

I'm curious what this looks like in practice. I'm currently finishing up BF Early American History, which honestly is not bad. I do think Rea Berg has excellent taste in children's lit and she does seem to build her programs around literature for the most part. That being said, I'm trying to figure out where to go from here. Any advice is welcome.

 

Also, what's AGG?

 

Thanks!

[How does one provide a classical education? Circe Institute lovers?]

 

1- I am no longer going to incorporate historical fiction. My boys, especially, b/c they were not avid readers, wasted so much precious time reading historical fiction that could have been spent reading great children's literature.

 

2- Literature is going to be the driving force behind our K-8 studies. Typically I have fallen into the history pattern. (you know......pick lit to match up w/whatever history we are studying. :tongue_smilie: ) I'm not suggesting that we will not be studying history. It is simply not going to be taking history and wrapping lit around it. This yr I have taken literature and wrapped history around lit and it has been truly the best homeschooling yr I have ever had.[/url] )

 

Can you explain what you mean in both of these points? For #1 why? For #2--what do you mean by "wrapping literature around history" versus the other?

 

Thanks! There is so much wisdom in what you are saying, I'm just trying to make sure I understand it.

[How does one provide a classical education? Circe Institute lovers?]

I love to listen to Andrew Kern too. He has deeply changed the way I think about education. I haven't listened to the Analytical Learning talk yet, but just today I was listening to his one on the Contemplation on Nature. I think it was one of the best lectures I've ever heard. It's free here (the James Taylor one is awesome, too): http://circeinstitute.com/free-audio/

 

I don't know if others have reached this conclusion, but I have started to find that Charlotte Mason and her ideas about education are very close to Kerns ideas. Even today as I was listening to his lecture on nature--I found myself thinking that this is what Mason meant when she wrote that "a child is a person". And I'm finding myself more and more drawn to the Charlotte Mason curricula out there like Ambleside Online and Charlottemasonhelp.com. I think they get it.

 

Great thread! It's great to know that there are others out there that love this stuff as much as I do!

[Could I start Miquon Math in the middle?]

Yes, I think you can. I bought the "Red Book" for my son and he's never done the "Orange Book" because I knew after looking at the orange one that it was going to be way to easy for him. And we've had no trouble at all. I'm using the Orange Book with my 5yo.

[What's the worst thing that could happen if I dropped Right Start?]

Thank you so much for the encouragement everyone!

 

I don't know why these decisions seem like the end of the world sometimes:banghead:

[What's the worst thing that could happen if I dropped Right Start?]

Your child will never learn math and will end up in prison. :lol:

 

That's what I was afraid of!

 

I think I was just so convinced that RightStart was *the* program, and I was feeling guilty for not loving it. I also have become frustrated when the book expects me to have manipulatives that didn't come in the package. And sometimes I wish it would provide manipulatives for things like 1s 10s 100s 1000s instead of using these weird paper versions.

 

I really didn't mean to buy so many math curriculums. I had bought SM as extra practice for my son. And decided to buy the orange Miquon book for my 4yo who was begging to "do school." When my son saw us doing it, he asked if he could have a book like that too. Since it's not expensive, I got it for him, and he really loves it. He likes to try to figure out what he's supposed to do before I tell him. I can tell that it really makes him think.

 

Anyway, thanks for the comments. Sometimes I just need to hear that everything really will be okay if I don't follow the plan I had two years ago that I thought was perfect.

 

:chillpill:

[What's the worst thing that could happen if I dropped Right Start?]

We are currently using RightStart B. I started supplementing Right Start with the SM workbook and the Miquon Red book this year because I felt like my DS needed extra practice that he was needing.

 

I believe RightStart is a good program, the problem is that I really don't enjoy teaching it. My question is what would I be missing if I dropped it and just used SM and Miquon, both of which my children and I enjoy (and find challenging in their own ways)?

 

One thing I do like about RightStart is the mental math games that they play at the beginning of each lesson. Do the SM HIGs have something like this?

 

Thanks for any input!

[Would you allow your history-hating child to...]

Yes. I heard a lecture by SWB in which she said that history should be one of the areas where you should have some "fun" and you should feel free to throw out all your plans if your child fines a person or event that really interests them. I'm pretty sure this is the lecture: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/store/great-books-history-as-literature-mp3.html

 

You can always get the Famous Men Middle Ages, if that's a series she enjoys.

[Is Susan Wise Bauer going to]

Do you mean Jessie Wise?

[Miquon Annotations?]

Thank you so much. I thought I would check before I bought anything. I hate spending money on something that won't get used.

[Miquon Annotations?]

Are the Miquon Annotations necessary if using the Miquon books?

 

Thanks!

[Memory Monday 11.7.2011]

Having my co-op definitely helps with getting memory done around here.

 

This is a good lecture by Andrew Pudewa that can help motivate and provide good memory strategies:

 

http://www.excellenceinwriting.com/ml-e

[Gaah! I take it back. Beautiful Feet Geography is]

I will say that overall it has been a good experience for us so far. And it is probably my son's favorite subject. I have been using the recommendation of having him keep a geography notebook and this has been a huge hit. I use it for copywork and have him draw pictures. In fact, maps that were small enough to fit in his notebook would probably be better for him, but he does enjoy getting out the maps, too.

[Gaah! I take it back. Beautiful Feet Geography is]

We're using BF Geography right now and I agree that it would help if there were examples of the maps in the guide.

 

You should email them about this. I know that they're in the process of redoing and updating all of their guides and they are asking for people to tell them what changes they would like to see.

[AAS -- Not Remembering Rules]

That would be helpful. I think one of my problems is that I'm not always using the cards, since the words are listed in the book. I also wish they were put to song or written in a catchy way that were easier to remember. I suppose I could do this myself. Has anyone else tried doing that with AAS? I know that's what PR does, which is why I think it's so effective. A friend of mine who uses PR says that even her younger kiddos know the rules because of this.

[AAS]

I guess if what you mean by teacher intensive as having to sit and go through it with them, then yes. But, once everything is set up, it is very open and go--one of the things that is so great about it. I would also add that it is very simple to follow. I feel like spelling is one of those subjects that seems to move very quickly around here.

[AAS -- Not Remembering Rules]

Thanks, Kristen!

 

I think for a while I wasn't doing a lot of review because everything seemed to be coming quite easily for him, but now, as things are becoming a bit more complicated, I can see that he needs it.

[AAS -- Not Remembering Rules]

Thanks for the ideas. I think maybe we haven't been reviewing them enough. I don't always do all the recommended reviews at the beginning. That was probably okay early on, but more necessary now that things are getting more complicated.

[AAS -- Not Remembering Rules]

I'm getting to the end of AAS Level 1 with my 6 yo and he seems to have trouble remembering the rules. In fact, I'm having trouble remembering the rules ;-) Have any of you who have used the program had this problem? Does it get better in the next level?

 

Thanks for any input you may have!!

[Board for AAS]

They are really inexpensive at Wal-Mart. I think I paid $6 for mine. I should also mention that I started off with one the size they recommend (I think it's 2 ft x 3 ft., right?) and you don't need one nearly that large.

 

Although, I have to say that I'm seriously digging Merry's idea with the folders!

[Fun 'light' French materials?]

We're using this little book from TPR World and so far we are having so much fun:

 

http://www.tpr-world.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=1000-10-07

 

I do recommend watching this video to get an idea of how TPR works:

http://www.tpr-world.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=1000-10-08

[Recommendations on a good California History Book?]

I saw Rea Berg do a walk through her California history guide last year at the convention. I never thought I would want to do a thorough study of California history until I saw her presentation. There's one book that I remember that really stood out at me that I thought would be really good, if I only used one, and it was The Cruise of the Arctic Star by Scott O'Dell. The Arctic Star is a boat and as it sails down the coast of California, important historical events are recounted. It sounded really interesting.

 

Hope this helps!

[What's in your memory work box?]

We use the 3x5 card box as well for our memory work, using the Charlotte Mason Scripture idea (can't think what it's really called). .

 

What's the "Charlotte Mason Scripture idea"?

 

 

I love the 3x5 card idea, btw.

[Would you use Minimus Latin with a 2nd grader?]

I think Minimus makes a great "reader" in addition that teaches the forms more formally, like Prima Latina or Latina Christiana.

 

To see if you need the TM, get the book and see how much of it you can figure out on your own. It does include vocabulary lists. But it doesn't have a glossary--which is annoying.

[No grammar in grammar stage?]

I listened to this lecture a few months ago. And I've heard SWB talk about it, too. Honestly, I never took the "delay grammar" arguments very seriously because mostly they had more to do with the fact that it's easier for a child to learn grammar when they are 10 than when they are 6 or 7. Well, you could say that about just about everything.

 

In this lecture, I think Andrew P. offers the best argument for the delay-formal-grammar idea than anyone I've heard. But, the key component of his argument is studying a foreign language, in which the child is studying grammar in a much more natural setting. He talks about how most people who say they understand grammar will admit that they never understood grammar until they studied a foreign language. This was definitely the case for me. I never understood grammar until I studied Greek and Latin in college. I know if you get Prima Latina by Memoria Press that it does incorporate the teaching of English grammar with the Latin.

 

To make a long story short, I may now be a convert.