siloam
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Posts posted by siloam
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Would story of the world 4 be enough if I fleshed it out with books? What else can you recommend? Dd will complete MOH 3 in about a month. Thanks in advance
Have you looked at All American History, by the same publisher? It isn't laid out exactly the same, but it is very similar. Much more formal in tone.
Personally I can't stand History of the US. It is the only history texts I have ever sold. I last year we went through DK's Children's History of the 20th Century. It is oop, but when I bought it it wasn't expensive used. You aren't quite up to 1900's yet. Guerber's Story of the Great Republic would get you there, but doesn't have the laid out assignments like MOH. Course neither does the DK book.
I don't see why STOW 4 wouldn't work with extra reading from the book list.
Heather
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My daughter is about to finish Earlybird. She catches on to topics fairly quickly, says math is “fun”, and enjoys a bit of a challenge. We will stick with Singapore as our primary program (We’re also doing some Miquon, living books, and games.), and I am able to order any items which could be beneficial.
If you were in my shoes, what program (US or Standards) and extra materials would you purchase?
The US is older, so I would recommend the Standards. Simply because she was able to refine the HIG's and make them better the second time around.
I also agree that you don't need both the TM and the HIG. The TM's are geared to classroom use, and I didn't find them that helpful. Though I know at least one mom here prefers them.
I used the text and workbook (of course) with HIG. I also liked the Intensive practice and word problem books. But I don't know how good the new word problem books are. The ones I have went out of print. The Intensive Practice books take concepts learned in the main text one step further in math logic, so it can be a bit challenging. The extra practice books are just that, extra practice on the same level as the main text.
Heather
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My guess is that she just isn't ready developmentally, and needs more work on basic math recall to make it easier for her to get new concepts. It is much easier to work on equivalent fractions, if the multiplication/division recall is instant. As it is she is both trying to learn something new, and trying to recall the math facts. It is just too much for her right now.
Keep in mind that middle school is spent mostly in review, adding a some higher level topics. You can be "behind" and still do fine in math. All my kids are "behind" grade level in Right Start...and when we were doing Singapore they were also behind grade level there. Yet the lowest math NP score we have gotten on a standardized test is 75%. That means that 74% of kids did worse and only 25% did better despite my dd (3rd dd) not even having covered division by the end of third grade. She just wasn't ready. But what she did know she nailed. Obviously (to me) kids are not getting it, they are just being moved ahead anyway.
I would actually recommend Math Mammoth. Go back to either the multiplication 1 book, then work through division 1 and then the combined multiplication and division books. They do a lot of work on the relationship between multiplication and division and math fact families. They also do a lot of work on 3 x __ = 30 type problems, which should also help get her ready for equivalent fractions.
In time she will get there. My 5th grader just started fractions with MM. That would be Introduction to fractions. She only does 2 pages a day, and I correct and we go over together anything she gets wrong to make sure he thinking is straight. I am not sure she will even get to the Fractions 1 book before he standardized testing this year. She won't have percents, ratio, and statistics that are covered in 5th grade. But I am also convinced that math is a mastery topic. They have to own the lower level stuff before they can move on.
Heather
p.s. I also had to pull my 6th grader out of Lial's and put her back in MM this year, because she just needs more practice with easier numbers. She was too frustrated by the large problem sets in Lial's, and has specific problem areas like rounding. She is doing 4 pages a day and just finished Place Value 2 (that is where MM has rounding) and is starting Place Value 3. She just needs so more maturity.
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So if the SLP mentioned LiPS yesterday as a possibilty for my dd. Now, they also mentioned she is showing signs of dyslexia, but is too early to test for that (they want to test her closer to 7 or 8). Now, the SLP did her standardized testing and all to determine dd has a language "issue", but never really had her read a book or anything. DD can read at grade level, but her phonics stink. Actually, when she sees the phonogram card in AAS, she does well. CVC words are okay. But with consonant blends, ugh, bad. How do I know if LiPS is right for her, or too easy. What about Barton? What about tailoring AAS/AAR? I will do anything to help her, if it is LiPS, we will get it. I just don't want to foolishly start buying curriculum and then realize I need to switch.
Thanks, any other advice, suggestions I forgot to ask that you want to share with me, please feel free. The strong possibility of dyslexia is another reason I want to make sure I have the right curriculum.
My 3rd dd is much the same. She couldn't hear blends to save her life. A word like belt she would spell bit then read it and burst into tears because she didn't even know where to start to fix it. LiPS did help a lot. It gave both of us the tools to communicate and find the correct letters. It wasn't an instant cure. She still often spells blends wrong, but now she generally can go back and fix them without help.
She is also doing Seeing Stars work, because she didn't have the ability to see words in her mind either. All I needed for that was the manual though. The whole thing is a reading program and I just needed the visualizing portion, which we do with AAS.
I personally prefer Barton level 1 to LiPS once you have learned how all the letters feel and they begin having you segment sounds. Barton level 1 does the same segmenting, but has additional helps and movements that worked so much better for my ds than LiPS alone. But he had to have that foundation of how sounds feel, look and sound first and LiPS is the only place I have found that. My 3rd dd could easily do the segmenting, so she went from LiPS back to AAS. She was reading on a 5th grade level at the time (two grade above level), so Barton seemed overkill.
Heather
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So, the neuropsych "jerk" was better, he was actually nice. DD has no memory issues, etc. SLP picked up definitive problems with language, phonemes, etc. Early warning signs also of dyslexia and maybe a mild APD (although they said in her case it would be "little apd".) They said she does a good job of hiding it, smiling cute, etc. Comes across as a shy child, when actually not understanding the "language" of all conversation. They want me to look into LiPS. I don't have that in my area, but how do I go about buying it or even knowing what of it to buy. I am doing AAS with her right now, but I get the feeling they want much more phoneme work.
Any thoughts, advice, ideas would be helpful? I am new at this area. They want me to have her work with a SLP that specializes in the language aspect of things (the one we saw does), and get her into a reading program with a specialist. That I have to look into still.
By the way, she is reading at grade level right now, so not "behind" yet. But definitely not comprehending what she is reading, at all. Although, since she is trying to memorize her way through reading, they feel this will catch up with her eventually and cause a lot of trouble. They emphasized how happy they are we/they caught this "early". In ps, they just blew everything off on her ear problems. But they said there is now way her test results can be "blown off" due to ear infections, etc. Kind of feel some relief that she can get some help, and soon, and not be lost in this world so much. Kind of feel a little overwhelmed too.
With LiPS I used mostly the manual, the playing cards, the mouth pictures and the bingo game.
It isn't difficult to use. Though once you get through the first introduction of sounds I prefer to go to Barton level 1, because it also includes hand movements that made things click for my ds, that LiPS did not.
AAS is also good, but I have to modify it a lot.
Heather
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There are a number of different subtypes of CAPD. There are children who struggle with phonemic processing. There are children who have difficulty processing sounds when there are competing background noises. There are those who have difficulty with auditory sequencing. Some children struggle with multiple of these areas.
My oldest DD is an excellent decoder and speller and has no difficulty with phonemic processing. Where she struggles is mostly with the auditory sequencing and also she tested borderline for processing in the presence of background noise.
I hear you, and was aware there are different versions of CAPD. I did read a couple of the main books on it. But what also struck me when I was reading the one written by and audio specialist was that while they present similar symptoms, dyslexia seems to have patterns to the symptoms where the CAPD was more random. Like with the letter recall problem my ds has, it has specific patterns that fall into the normal "dyslexic" behavior b/d, m/n, w/h, i/e where when she described CAPD it was obvious the child was simply guessing not having the same continued pattern of errors.
But like I said I am not a professional, or they could decide to redefine everything and put it under CAPD as dyslexia is rarely a formal diagnosis anyway.
Heather
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One of my friends has 100ez lessons. So I am going to start with that and some games that was suggested.
My ds has some issues with his speech so that might be contributing to some of the problems. Also, him and his ds have tendency to dyslexia behavior. So when he has to figure out the ending sound like at in cat first it really confuses him.
I have LLATL blue on my shelf too that teaches blends from being of word to end. So, I might pull that off the shelf too. Thanks to everyone who replied.
You might want to borrow it first if you can, as a visual dyslexic I had a hard time reading 100 EZ lessons at all. It made my head hurt.
Orton/Gillingham programs work best with dyslexic children, and especially those that are also sequential. You might look at All About Spelling/Reading, Horizons Reading (NOT the computer version the remedial in person version), Wilson Reading or Barton Reading and Spelling. These programs are specifically designed to teach dyslexic children. Though they are not cheap.
The lower costs versions would be to use Recipe for Reading, which is a how to make your own program manual, or I use Sonlight LA with the ETC books and just add in additional multi-sensory work using my All About Spelling (AAS) tiles, a sand box, play dough and other ideas I have run across.
Heather
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My ds 7yo is not getting blending to make words. He knows all the sounds of the letters, but blending is not happening. We have been using HOP which works very well for dd 8. I am going slowly with ds but he is just not getting it.
Is there a program that works with the skill of blending? I also have alpha phonics maybe I could switch to this program, but not sure if this is the answer?
TIA
I love Barton for this, but it is not cheap.
First of all modeling it is good. If they can't do it, trying to make them won't help. Do it first yourself and have them copy you. Takes a lot of stress and pressure off.
Second I recommend you first tap each sound (tape finger under letter and say the sound-then have the child do the same). Then do a slow blend following the letters with your finger, so you can still hear some of the individual sounds. kkkkkaaaaattttt (cat) I know it is hard to hold some sounds, but do your best. Have the child repeat it after you again. Then do a faster blend and have the child repeat as you (and they) run their fingers under the word. Over time most of my children have first taken over doing the last step independently, then over time the second step, till they could do it alone from the first step.
Using the hand motions might be key, because it helps the child focus. Wiggly boys can have an especially difficult time of it. My ds actually had been working on blending for about a 2 years when we started using hand motions and he learned to blend in a week.
Heather
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Right Start Math games are the only thing that worked for my kids.
Before that we tried drill worksheets, Calculadders (shudder), the hand held electronic flash card thingy (technical, I know)....Flashmaster is the name (sheesh)...which we used for over a year, and flashcards. None of that worked here.
Heather
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Oh, I wasn't looking for a narration...just making sure they were following the story. I stop every couple of pages to make sure they're keeping up. But they're not.
I only really ask for true narrations maybe once or twice a week, and that's usually from a book that they are reading. For read alouds, I've always tried to keep it enjoyable. But it seems that unless I'm reading something cartoony and silly they can't follow along.
I just feel frustrated that I spend 20-30 min. reading to them and they have no idea what I just said.
A couple of possibilities, which might have been brought up already.
First if they are big picture thinkers they might do better with big picture questions. Detail questions don't work as well here, because we see the whole more than the pieces.
Second if they are visual learners, then they might just be struggling to catch it at all. With the cartoons, I assume they see the pictures and follow along that way. RA just might not be their thing. I learned this doing FLL With my 3rd dd. It served my 2nd dd well and she did well on her standardized testing. My 3rd dd tanked it. She needs visual input.
Third some of this can still happen but it will take training. My 3rd dd is still doing WWE, which is auditory. I do have to remind her to be "on" and to activity try to visualize what I am reading. Still it took several weeks for her to really be able to catch details, and before that I would have to re-read the section with the answer over again for her. Now she can do it (at the end of WWE 2), but it is work for her. My oldest is an auditory learner and all this was so easy for her...well not the details. She is still a big picture thinker. :D
Honestly I don't do many RA's anymore, I assign it all as independent reading, but half of that is because I just don't have the time to do it all...and why spend so much effort on something only my oldest and I really enjoy.
Do your kids say they enjoy it? Do they say they feel they understand the story, but just can't put it into words? Just because you can't get an answer from them doesn't mean it is worthless...you just need to try to figure out why they can't.
Heather
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Do you use it? Do you like it? Our dd may have phonetic awareness issues. We meet with a panel of specialists who evaluated her to hear the results. I am getting ready for them to blow us off and looking into the right curriculum choices. AAS has helped her a lot, but it is like she needs so much more phonetics to really get it.
Thanks.
I adore LiPS. It works on how the mouth feels and looks as well has what the sounds are, so it is using three senses at once. It isn't a cure all, As Merry said, they are still dyslexic.
With my 3rd dd she couldn't hear blends at all. She would write bend as bid and then read bid and burst into tears because she didn't know how to find the right letters. After doing LiPS she would write bend as bed, read it then start saying the word over till she would find the blend. She still doesn't have automatic recall, so most of the time she writes it wrong first and self corrects, but being able to self correct is huge.
I love AAS, but I have to modify it a lot. Our pace is much slower with a ton of review. My 3rd dd (5th grade) is still in level 2. DS (3rd grade) is in level 1. Just keep swimming.....
Heather
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I just want to get these straight. A good friend was talking to me about auditory dyslexia today (the more I look into it, I think my dd fits it to a T). Is that the same as a auditory processing disorder?
Thanks.
No, in my unprofessional opinion.
CAPD, from what the speech therapist I saw said, usually includes problems following multi-step (and sometimes single step) directions because they just can't process all that information and turn it into action.
My ds, on the other hand, can do multi-step directions easily. He can do math well. He can't hear the sounds to spell simple CVC words even through he can say the sounds in reading above grade leve l= Auditory Dyslexia.
Heather
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We have not used CW, but last year in 5th grade ds did HO Ancients Level 2, and also Classical Composition's Narrative. I would guess maybe similar amount of writing as CW? Anyway, I didn't think it was too much. HO ended up being his favorite curriculum - I'm not sure why! He sure doesn't love to write, and will try to keep it as short as he can. Which was why I liked the outlining - he couldn't exactly leave stuff out. Also, Ancients Level 2 really does a lot of hand-holding for the outlining, suggesting topics, etc.
My guess is CW has more, because it also covers grammar. So on day 1 you do an outline (supposed to be full sentences, but I allow key word outlines) and analyze each scene (we do the whole model as scenes take too long), then day 2 you are doing parsing tables on 2 sentences, day 3 you are doing the six sentence shuffle, which takes two sentences and changes tense, quantity between singular and plural, do synonym substitution, change sentence types, move clauses...basically you rewrite each sentence 6 times. The the last day you do a rewrite of a smaller piece of the model with a giving focus of just one of the areas covered in the six sentence shuffle.
I wouldn't do both in the same week, but given Homer A has 20 weeks and Homer B has 20 weeks, if yo don't do the poetry you have extra weeks to fill.
Heather
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With my 3 boys with severe verbal apraxia (6,5,4) My 5 and 4 ye old are always from reading. My 6 yr old is close to getting started. But 1st he has to have another in depth hearing test. His speech teacher doesn't believe he's hearing all the sounds. Also he's showing a lot of signs of dyslexia. So we are going to get that testing done. She is using the Kaufman method with him. My 8 ye old is reading small words and is also doing the Kaufman method. I love the idea of textbooks. Read it do the worksheets and it frees me
My ds has had two professional hearing tests and passed both with above average scores, but still in 3rd grade struggles to hear the difference between short vowels. Though he has very little to no problem recalling them for reading.
I had him evaluated by a speech therapist in the area (one of the best I am told), and she said he also doesn't present the typical CAPD symptoms she normally sees. He had no problem performing multi-step directions. Just don't ask him to spell.
Yesterday I asked him to spell beg. First he spelled bag, I had him read it and he realized it was wrong. Then he spelled bog, and I asked him to read it. He couldn't remember the short o sound (panic setting in) so I had him use his Barton tapping to find it. He realized it was wrong and due to frustration (his) I just had him say beg and tap the vowel he found in beg. This time he found the right letter. Now that was the worst of all the words we covered yesterday, but it is what we are dealing with on a daily basis.
It has to be dyslexia. He doesn't have this problem with numbers.
BTW of all my children he is the one that loves workbooks. The girls very much preferred things they did with me. He wants to be independent. For grammar, math and such I have been able to accommodate him. But with spelling/reading I have to be there and work with him...for now.
Heather
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Thanks for all the good feedback. I don't use the tiles, but our lesson structure has been : review rules; sometimes review sounds; review some old words; write 5 words, 2 phrases and 2 sentences. That's b/c AAS suggested (I thought, at least; frankly I've been skimming instructions lately :D) having the child write some phrases and sentences each day.
Looking at the schedules y'all sent has been so very helpful. I don't think there's any reason to make him do phrases and sentences every day, esp. 'cause hs insists on doing them first and words later which means more errors on the phrases and sentences. It seems like setting a 10- or 15- minute time limit, having Button read the new words with me and visualize/orally spell them, and finally working through the lessons in order doing all words first, then phrases, then sentences: this should be a much more satisfactory experience for us. I'm sure that plan will require tweaking but it's a good start.
thank you all so much!
Go with what you need. My oldest only covers the phonograms once a month, and only the newest sound cards once a week. She covers key cards once a week.
She is a really good speller so I have her teach me rules or she will just rely on visual memory. That got her up to a 7th grade spelling level, but then she stuck there for about 3 years, till I figured it was less about applying rules and more visual memory. Now that she applies the rules she is up to 9th grade spelling level.
Heather
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Well, we were in love with AAS but Button really really hates spelling right now. I was thinking of switching to Wheeler's Elementary Speller -- I think it would be right up Button's alley -- but thought maybe I ought to persist with AAS, and just restructure the lessons so that we read the words, imagine them with eyes closed, say them out loud and then copy and write them. Which I think Button would prefer to the AAS method.
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Here again, we only use the tiles to demonstrate concepts (with the older 3).
My youngest uses them, but he is disgraphic. Even then he only uses them the first day. The second day he writes the words, the third day he visualizes them (similar to what you describe but with changing them as well) and the four day he writes them on paper.
I don't see why you can't do what you are describing with AAS.
Heather
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With Homer I only focus on it...but we also do the Poetry. I use the Poetry to break up homer weeks. You can do a similar thing with HO.
Heather
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I have 3 kids who have verbal apraxia (severe speech issues) one of those is dyslexic and I have a DD who also is dyslexic ( One is a very visual learner and the other has to learn all 3 ways). I'm thinking if I put them in textbook type school for it would not be a good fit and be very stressful with all the textbook reading. Am I right? Or do they do better with textbooks? Or would something like MFW or winterpromise be a better fit where I do more of the reading and it can be more relaxing subject?
Honestly I find hands on work better, but they even tire of that after a while.
Stay focused on the basics first. I have one who does better with auditory input and three that do better with visual input. All do best with hands on. But they all think science is icky and do not want visual texts. :glare: It took some doing but I have the oldest two going into Environmental science texts that don't have a lot of pictures, and the younger two are doing K'Nex for science.
For history I do MOH on audio for everyone then assign additional reading to the older three.
Guess I would lean towards MFW or WP because they both integrate hands on. I would lean towards MFW because it is lighter in its base schedule, but has a reading list you can use to assign additional reading to the kiddos ready for it.
Heather
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Seeing Stars is a program that specifically develops the ability to see words in the mind. You don't need the whole program, just the TM.
I personally could visualize very well, as long as it wasn't words. If I tried to visualize a word like box, I would see a meadow with a stream, flowers and animals with the word box in the middle painted with flowers...and I really wanted to get rid of the word because it was messing up my pretty scene.
Using Seeing Stars with my younger two has developed the ability to see words in my mind that I couldn't do before.
Heather
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Maybe I'm just not "getting" it myself - but if someone's getting 14-19 and struggling with 11-13, then why not just have them say one teen, two teen, three teen to follow the pattern they already know rather than one ten one?
LL
Because one ten one is the correct place value name, so they can progress in math with just that much knowledge, they just struggle to communicate with other people. One teen, two teen is neither correct place value nor the correct name, so they still can't progress in math or communicate with other people. Dyslexic (dyscalculic) kids are often very concrete so one teen would be just as abstract as eleven, where one ten one is perfectly logical. But my ds struggles with the rest of teen names as well...he self corrects, but struggles.
Heather
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Yep, we love them here too! Because they have lots of phonetic reading practice. They are a little spendy, but have been worth it.
They are a little cheaper from 3R's Plus, because they print on demand. It does take more time through, because you have both printing and shipping time.
Heather
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I really like Science Explorer and it worked very well for my two older girls. My youngest hates it. She hasn't found anything else that she likes better though. I have tried CPO for her and she hated it more than Science Explorer.
I think she just hates science in general.
If it makes you feel better my kids informed me that they hate pictures. Too many of them are gross :confused: (Note: I grew up on a farm and helped skin animals, pluck chickens....did all sorts of gross stuff...I can't relate). I am trying to figure out what to do with visual learners that doesn't have pictures. :lol:
Heather
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I am interested in this also and wondering whether to get the ebook or the print book. So which is better?
Thanks.
I have the e-book. The print would require me to make copies and I just can't easily do that.
Heather
which Latin after Lively Latin 1(besides LL2)
in Logic Stage & Middle Grade Challenges
Posted
Oldest is doing Latin Prep (only the books, no video) and Cambridge reader.
Latin Alive was our plan, but dd doesn't do well learning from videos. She is a serious reader and also doesn't like super colorful books as she finds them distracting. Latin Prep has very clear instructions and she is doing it all on her own. She reads the teacher book (which has a copy of the student text, so you don't need to buy that), then does the workbook. I bought her the vocab cards for review and I correct all her work with the answer key.
Then on Thursday I have her do a passage from the Cambridge text, so it keeps it more fun.
Heather