Cookies are always good. Thanks. :)

The bottom line is: I still have no idea what approach we should take. I'm scared to make TOO much of math at this age (along with spending $$$, but I will, if it seems like the right fit), and I'm scared of not making a big ENOUGH deal of it. :willy_nilly:

Okay, as I was reading through those articles (thanks for the links, Ellie!), I kept thinking they sounded familiar. Then I remembered, Peter Gray has written on this topic, even expanding on Benezet's ideas, on at least two occasions. I remember reading these pieces and being influenced by the ideas, yet not ready to abandon elementary math instruction entirely, especially when my daughter has specifically asked to work on it. Gray makes a convincing case, though, with some of his anecdotal evidence: "• Leslie wrote this about her son who was entirely unschooled until he went to college: "The first real formal math he did was when he studied for the ACT test. When he was younger, we had math workbooks and even a couple textbooks around the house, but they barely got looked at. ...The ‘dirty little secret' about math is that it just doesn't take as long to learn it as we're culturally indoctrinated to believe it takes. My son learned enough math in just a few weeks to get a 33 on the ACT test just by studying some ACT test prep books." [Note: In the United States, the ACT is most commonly used in the middle states and the SAT is most commonly used on and near the two coasts.] • To find out more about how kids with no formal math training deal with college admissions math, I interviewed Mikel Matisoo, the Sudbury Valley staff member who is most often sought out by students who want help in preparing for the math SAT. He told me that the kids who come to him are usually those who have relatively little genuine interest in math; they just want to do well enough on the SAT to get into the college of their choice. He said, "The way the SAT is structured it is relatively easy to prepare directly for it; there are certain tricks for doing well." Typically, Mikel meets with the students for about 1 to 1 ½ hours per week for about six to ten weeks and the students may do another 1 to 1 ½ hours per week on their own. That amounts to a range of about 12 to 30 hours, total, of math work for kids who may never before have done any formal math. The typical result, according to Mikel, is a math SAT score that is good enough for admission to at least a moderately competitive college. Mikel explained that the kids who are really into math, and who get the top SAT scores, generally don't seek him out because they can prepare on their own." https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/freedom-learn/201003/when-less-is-more-the-case-teaching-less-math-in-school https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/freedom-learn/201004/kids-learn-math-easily-when-they-control-their-own-learning

Oh, goodness, I would love to read that!

Also, I'm guessing there is a good reason no one has suggested Singapore yet?

I like these suggestions! Kate, is only addition and subtraction introduced until 3rd? Or are you saying she's old enough to catch on to the rest while she is in the midst of doing 3rd?

Yes, I do love the looks of Strayer-Upton. I find myself worrying whether it's "enough," though. (Not proud of that.) Great idea on the homemade workbook, Momling!

Good to hear -- both programs suggested so far have definitely been on my radar!

I should probably add that secular, or at least easily modified to be secular, is highly preferred.

My daughter turns 8 in late August, and she is eager to start formal math lessons for the first time. She has asked for workbooks, but she also has no prior math experience, with or without workbooks, so I'm not sure how much stock to place on that criteria. All we've done up to now has been mental math, like when we bake or shop or do things around the house like getting ready for vacation: "Okay, I need you to figure out how many vitamins we should pack for our trip when we use 5 vitamins a day and we'll be gone for 5 days." That sort of thing. I just had her take the placement test for Singapore 1A. I was pretty impressed with how she did, however, she also: - counted on her fingers - bombed the word problems (although, to her credit, I found a couple of them confusing, too, and I'm not sure this was a conceptual problem as much as it was that she did the actual math incorrectly. Answers were off by 1 in several instances.) - could not understand the concept of 14=___ tens and ___ones, even when I explained it. (Maybe she needs manipulatives for this?) I've been leaning toward things that seem to me to be gentle, yet straightforward, no frills math, but with her lack of experience doing math and my lack of experience teaching math, what would you recommend? (If it matters, I feel fairly confident in my own math skills.) Help?

*bump* Any recent additions to this list? Or does everyone still like the options listed above?

I'm planning a lit-based curriculum for this year, and I worry about too much reading aloud. It seems like just about everything I look into requires quite a bit of read-aloud time. ETA: I mentioned keeping everyone's attention because we're also coming at this year as unschoolers. We've never done formal lessons of any kind up until now, so I really don't know what to expect. I'm just eager to make it an engaging, fun year!

would you please tell me why, and most importantly, how you handled history instead? I'm even wondering if it might be just fine for us in 5th grade. I am not convinced it's going to be a great fit for us this year, though, with 8 and 6-year olds. (Really, I'm mostly concerned with keeping the 8-year old's attention.)

Sammish, have you done RSO's Earth or Life? My daughter picked out Earth -- just wondering if you liked other of their offerings better.

ByGrace3, maybe you can explain to me how WWE works? I looked at the samples and TOC, and I can't figure out -- do you read one entire book each week? Or are you simply using bits and pieces of different books to work from?

4blessingmom -- great ideas! Thank you for chiming in!

If you were going to teach 2nd grade all over again next year, what would you keep and what would you ditch?

Sarah, I have no doubt that would help. I love that idea, I just already know that I'm baaaaaaaaaaaad at it. My husband, however, tries to fill in the gap in that department. He's great at telling the girls stories from his childhood or other family stories. They look forward to that. The one time I tried to tell them a story from my childhood, I practically traumatized them. (A story about me falling off my bike, and a stranger coming to help. Yikes. No wonder they were freaked out! Ha!) Anyway, as I mentioned further up, we have been a Waldorf-inspired family for years, and oral storytelling is a huge component. I managed to memorize a couple of fairy tales, but that is as far as I got. I read a little more of Paddington at lunch today. It was a *smidge* better. My almost-6-year old seemed to be mostly listening -- when she finished eating, she played with some magnatiles at the table. If I keep each session short, we might just be able to get through this book. But I'm also prepared to throw in the towel if it looks like I'm torturing them.

Oh, goodness. There goes the rest of my weekend! :-) Thank you!!

OhElizabeth, is K5 Sonlight the same as Core A?

YES! This is almost exactly what she told me this morning when I asked for her thoughts on Boxcar. Their imaginative play afterwards was BEAUTIFUL. Please keep the recommendations coming -- I would be thrilled to feed their minds with more books that fit this mold! We just visited Laura Ingalls Wilder's home on the Kansas prairie. So I think the timing is good for more of those stories. (We've only read LHITBW so far.) And, I agree, happypamama, we've had the JH Treasury for weeks from the library, and no one is ready to return it yet!

Thanks for the suggestions and advice. Farrar, our library has Jamie and Angus, so I will definitely pick that up. We are actually a Waldorf-inspired family for the early years. At age 8, my daughter will be doing formal lessons for the first time. I selected all of her curriculum materials based on what she told me she wants to work on this year. I think it's going to be a great fit for her, but I was hoping at least some of it, like the read-alouds, would appeal to the almost-6-year old, too. If she decides to do nothing but play with her three-year old sister all year, I'm fine with that. But I hope we'll be doing at least a few things of interest to her.

That's Writing With Ease, PhotoGal?

That was awesome to read, Alte Veste Academy. Thank you so much for sharing!

Good point, Rach. I wonder . . . I will ask my oldest her opinion in the morning. I think it was a great blend of funny/silly with danger and mystery. Plus I know they loved the idea of kids being so self-sufficient.