wathe
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Posts posted by wathe
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1 hour ago, TCB said:
The whole thing is pretty disheartening. I don’t even know what to say, but truth is very hard to come by these days. I work in a hospital. I would have thought that if so many vaccination deaths were occurring then I would have seen at least some there. I’m fairly certain that if there were serious frequent issues New Zealand would be seeing lots of it as they’ve vaccinated so many. It’s ironic really but the same people I know who said that many deaths were being wrongfully labeled as Covid, are now saying they’re vaccine deaths. All I can bear witness to is that I have seen many people actually die of Covid and I don’t think I’ve seen anyone die from vaccination.
I think the issue is differentiating signal from noise. When a large fraction of the population is getting the same vaccine all in a short time period, of course a proportion of people are going to have medical events shortly after their vaccine just by chance - the question is would these people have had these medical events anyway (correlation) or were these medical events because of the vaccine (causation). Individual cases are impossible to know if the vaccine was causal or not. Lots of noise. Looking at reports of suspected vaccine related events on a population basis is helpful., because we can look at rates of various events and compare them to background rates - and sort the signal from the noise. Blood clots and AZ, myocarditis and mRNA covid vaccines, shingles, allergic reactions, and lymphadenopathy all have clear signal suggesting causality when looked at in populations. Hypertension and A.-fib don't, to the best of my knowledge.
My experience mirrors TCB's. The stories that make adverse events post-vax seem frequent don't match what we're seeing in ED's. Very, very few adverse events. I haven't seen single serious one. I'm in city of more than a hundred thousand, with only one hospital. If serious adverse events were common, we should be seeing them. And we just aren't
What we have been seeing is very sick covid cases. We've admitted hundreds of those.
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3 minutes ago, bolt. said:
If all you really want is rice with lunch, try an experiment where you cook extra, bag it, and freeze it in lunch-size portions. It's easy to thaw, heat (with a little water in the microwave) and enjoy. I have rice with lunch at least 50% of the time. Although I do cook the big batches in my instant pot.
DH might die if I tried that. At least faint. HE WOULD KNOW just by smelling it, I bet. The rice would be WRONG. 🙂
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Both!
We have both, and both get used very regularly.
The IP is really good for hard-cooked eggs, beans, bone broth and stocks, and anything wet and stew-like (chili, stew, soups etc). We also like it for whole chickens and pot roast.
Whether or not you'll like it for rice depends on how serious you are about rice. DH comes from a family that is serious about rice, and we eat it pretty much every day. Most meals are whatever we cook plus rice - so I need a way to cook rice that's not the IP, because the IP is busy making the main meal and I need rice at the same time. And our rice cooker (fancy zojirushi that's only slightly less fancy than a space-ship) does a better job with rice than the IP. (The IP is fine, but the fancy rice cooker is better.)
So both if you need rice as a side dish to whatever you make in the IP, or if you are super finicky about rice.
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Canada stretched it to 4 months between doses when our supply was poor. And those with delayed dosing seem to maintain their immunity longer. As supply improved and delta hit, the interval was shortened to 21-28 days
if COVID risk in your community is high, I would get my second dose ASAP. - really good immunity in the short term at the expense of poorer long term immunity.
if COVID risk in my community was low, I’d stretch the time between doses as long as they’d let me, up to 4 months- better long term immunity at the expense of immunity right now
Edited to fix typo. 21-28 days, not 21-18.
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31 minutes ago, BusyMom5 said:
I do think its better to have medical professionals vaccinated, but I'm also okay with them wearing PPE instead, proving they have had Covid antibody testing that shows immunity, or testing 1x a week. None of those logical (at least to me) options are being considered. If I were the friend from my 1st example above, I would quit.
There are problems with PPE instead of vax:
1 Sloppy PPE use is inevitable. All HCW goof up with PPE. All of us. Perfect use is complicated, time-consuming, and onerous. Some of us are more diligent than others, but perfect use all the time, every time, is truly impossible in real-life conditions. And use has become sloppier as this pandemic drags on. The Swiss cheese model of accident prevention applies - PPE is one layer of defence; by itself it is inadequate to protect oneself, ones patients and ones co-workers.
2 PPE comes off in the break room. Unvaxxed staff present a risk to their co-workers, one that's unnecessary.
3 Unvaxxed staff are more likely to catch covid in the community and bring it in to work in the first place. PPE use at work doesn't change that.
Eta weekly testing is inadequate. That just tell us that they've been exposing their workplace during the week before they've tested.
My hospital has a must test before every shift policy for those with vaccine exemptions (of which there are very few). It's onerous (have to come to work an hour or so early every shift), and expensive to administer. For those with true exemptions, it's a reasonable system.
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I'm only aware of one person who quit over refusal to vaccine in my department (of a staff I think more than two hundred). The rest got vaxxed. Way. way more people have quit because of burnout.
Locally we've had a bigger problem in long term care with staff waiting over the vax - for all the same reasons Mrs Tiggywinkle has already stated. I'll add that LTC workers here also tend to be from more vaccine hesitant/less trusting of the system groups - recent immigrants, POC, lower education.
I don't think that any individual can create more healthcare capacity or fix worker shortages, other than the usual ways of supporting and voting for political parties whose aims match yours, and writing letters to government.
Individuals can support healthcare systems by reducing the load placed upon them:
One way individuals can help is to not be part of the problems that are contributing to so much burnout. Most of this seems obvious, but I'll list them anyway, because every shift I'm reminded that none of this obvious to a whole lot of people:
- Get vaxxed if you don't have a contraindication
- Use the emergency department for emergencies only
- If you have to go to emergency, do your best to be a patient patient. Be polite to the staff. Please follow our rules and do the things we ask you to do. Advocate for yourself, of course, but don't be a jerk.
- Follow public health guidelines - wear your mask (properly!), limit your number of contacts.
- If you must protest masks/vaccines or public health measures, don't do it in front of a hospital. We don't appreciate it, AT ALL.
Another indirect way to help reduce pressure on the system over the long term is to get involved with a group that works to improve determinants of health (poverty, addictions, education, nutrition, social justice, violence.......the list is endless) - because healthier populations put less stress on healthcare systems. There are oodles of these, with endless ways to contribute with either time or money. I personally support Canadian Doctors for Protection from Guns, started by a trauma surgeon who has had enough of managing gunshot victims and their grieving families (as have I), and volunteer my time with Scouts Canada.
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19 minutes ago, whitestavern said:
If it makes Zeynep and others feel better to believe that, fine. The majority who are getting vaxxed due to the mandates are more likely to be doing it because they need to put food on their table.
I don't think so. I administer covid vaccines. Lately we are getting lots of people who just needed a nudge. They aren't strongly opposed, but just hadn't gotten around to it, or didn't think they needed it. Now that they "need it for work" (or for youth around here, "need it for hockey") they are getting it done without complaint.
I do see a small number who are very vocal about how they are feeling coerced into the vaccine, but that's a small, small minority.
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A quite thoughtful NYT piece, published today, on vaccine hesitancy.
This bit about mandates struck me:
It may well be that some of the unvaccinated are a bit like cats stuck in a tree. They’ve made bad decisions earlier and now may be frozen, part in fear, and unable to admit their initial hesitancy wasn’t a good idea, so they may come back with a version of how they are just doing “more research.”
We know from research into human behavior but also just common sense that in such situations, face-saving can be crucial.
In fact, that’s exactly why the mandates may be working so well. If all the unvaccinated truly believed that vaccines were that dangerous, more of them would have quit. These mandates may be making it possible for those people previously frozen in fear to cross the line, but in a face-saving manner.
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Just now, Faith-manor said:
Agreed. I think it would absolutely be missed here because no practitioner would.even think, "Oy, Diphtheria is going around!" Just doesn't compute. And of course that is because of the vaccine. But, that will only continue to be this way so long as people continue to vaccinate their kids. If that falls off a bunch, all it will take is a traveler from elsewhere to bring it here, and an outbreak will occur.
It is amazing to me the ridiculous arguments people will make in order to be against covid mandates.
I was just pointing out the glaring error, but didn't take the time to read the full article to see exactly what the breakdown was for cases vs. deaths.
I think and advanced case would be obvious. But I don't think that anyone is going to catch it early, 'cause it's just not on our radar, and even if it is, it's just really improbable.
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5 hours ago, Faith-manor said:
Not in the USA with mandatory DTaP for children to attend school. You are being dishonest again. The average is less than two per year. Two. In the USA. Where the vaccines are mandated and distribution is efficient, diphtheria is NOT a problem in communities.
It's even bette than you suggest; less than 2 cases per year, not deaths. Many fewer deaths than even that. One death in since 1996. (Diphtheria is treatable. The modern difficulty with treatment in developed nations would be the practitioner failing to recognize it - very, very few practitioners have ever seen a case. )
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4 hours ago, Dmmetler said:
On the pumpkin patch, unless it is actually your local government mandating masks, I don't see why it is any different than any other business requiring them. I required masks for my piano studio all last summer when we had no mask mandate because my students were under 16 and therefore could not be vaccinated at all, or were in the process of being so until about late June. There was no county mandate, but individual businesses could still choose to do so provided we posted signage to that effect.
The pumpkin patches we've been to often have playhouses, bounce houses, and other amusements where children are close together. I don't see it at all unreasonable to choose to keep a mask mandate in place for that reason, because while the adults can be vaccinated and almost certainly will keep distanced from others outside their party, the kids cannot be yet, and probably won't.
Similarly, we're going to the local zoo's Halloween event tonight. It will be mostly outdoors, and is spacious enough that you can stay away from other people if you so choose. Masks are still required. And it makes sense-the most vulnerable who cannot yet be vaccinated are also the most likely to want to crowd close to see the magician, or to be on the dance floor together, and rather than cancel the event, as has happened to so much in the last year, mandating masks provides extra protection for those kids.
This is part of the issue - much of what people think of as outdoor isn't truly outdoor. there are often indoor or crowded spaces where people cluster together at so-called outdoor events.
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7 hours ago, SlowRiver said:
There are a few thousand people that die every year in the US from diphtheria.
It's a bit odd to be disagreeing about how possible it is to eliminate viruses, when we still have only eliminated two in human history, after more than 60 years of widespread vaccination for many of them. And none of them are even in the same family of viruses - the closest comparator to covid now is flu and no one thinks that is going anywhere.
How is it suddenly a real possibility now when it's been so difficult before?
Smallpox was able to be actually eradicated because of it's particular characteristics. Easy to see, quick to become visible after infection, doesn't mutate readily, no animal equivalent, immunity is permanent and lifelong, There are a few other diseases that scientists think it might be possible to really eradicate which share similar characteristics - a few being less than 10 . Covid is not similar to those.
No! No! No! This is absolutely untrue.
There has been 14 cases and ONE death from diptheria in theUSA since 1996 (CDC pink book report quoted below), and he didn't catch it here.:
Diphtheria Secular Trends in the United States
- 100,000-200,000 cases and 13,000-15,000 deaths reported annually in 1920s before vaccine
- Cases gradually declined after vaccines introduced in 1940s; cases rapidly declined after universal vaccination program introduction in late 1940s
- From 1996 to 2018, 14 cases and 1 death reported in the United States
From 1996 through 2018, 14 cases of diphtheria were reported in the United States, an average of less than 1 per year. One fatal case occurred in a 63-year-old male returning to the United States from a country with endemic diphtheria disease.
WHO table of case by country.
Diphtheria is an example of a spectacular vaccination success story. We still have diphtheria in the world (CDC yellowbook) because some countries, because of poverty, war, and other structural problems, aren't universally vaccinating. VACCINES WORK.
Measles, mumps, rubella, polio, H. influenza, pertussis, even chickenpox. All vaccine success stories. Most practitioners under the age fo 40 have never seen case of any of them (excepting chickenpox, but many have never seen a case of that either, c-px vax is universal here).
The Museum of Healthcare in Kingston (Ontario) website has a fantastic virtual exhibit on vaccines and immunization, for those who are interested in some of the history (bonus for Canadians, there is some really good Canadian content)
ETA nitpicky point that diphtheria is a bacterial disease, not viral. Ditto pertussis.
ETA again to clarify: the reason diphtheria and polio haven't been eradicated is social - dysfunctional human social systems. Not science.
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6 hours ago, Annie G said:
I thought we’d enjoy having the theater to ourselves but I kind of miss the community of watching with a crowd.
Agree! Especially for a martial arts themed movies. I'm used to audience participation (cheering!) with these.
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A brief report from CMAJ on covid, dementia and other neurological sequelae:
Research presented at the Alzheimer’s Association International Conference suggests even mild cases of COVID-19 may be associated with cognitive deficits months after recovery.
One Argentinian study of 234 seniors who previously had COVID-19 found that more than half showed some degree of cognitive impairment months later. One in three had severe “dementia-like” impairments in memory, attention and executive function — a much higher proportion than the 5%–8% of seniors in the general population who have dementia at a given time.
“This could be the start of a dementia-related epidemic fueled by this latest coronavirus,” stated presenting author Dr. Gabriel de Erausquin of the Glenn Biggs Institute for Alzheimer’s and Neurodegenerative Diseases at UT Health San Antonio. Researchers will follow the study participants over the next three to five years to see if these problems resolve or worsen.
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We saw it tonight. My kids loved it. They are now writing up D&D stats blocks for the 10 rings and for other weapons (dragon tipped arrows etc)
I was also nervous about covid exposure, but it turned out to be the safest indoor experience possible - we were literally the only people in the theatre. Other than the staff. We bought our tickets online with assigned seats. Showed our proof of vaccination at the door, went into the theatre and had the entire place to ourselves for the whole movie. It was weird, but pretty cool.
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25 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:
But they still will be restricted in what they can do. The vaccine does not stop people contracting or spreading covid- just reduces the chances by a bit
Not by a bit. By a lot.
Both my personal experience (those coming through my ED with covid, with one exception, have all been unvaxxed**. The exception was an immune compromised cancer patient on active treatment) and the literature* back this up. Vaccination reduces infection and transmission by a lot.
*CDC science brief from mid-september with a summary of studies.
** ETA meaning since vaccination was widespread; June or so.
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I feel like I've suggested this before , so forgive me if I'm repeating myself:
Primitive fire-making supplies and a book to go along with. Or just a kit with supplies for ways to make fire without matches.
You could go big or small with this:
flint, steel, wood pieces from appropriate tree species for making a bow drill, hand-drill or fire plough (or you can buy kits), ferro-rod, char cloth, char cloth making supplies, jute cord, cotton balls, vaseline, magnifying glass, 9-volt battery and a pack of foil-wrapped gum (you only need the wrappers, the gum is a bonus)
This stuff keeps my scouts busy and engaged at camp for hours and hours and hours. some of them get Very, very good at it.
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30 minutes ago, LMD said:
I'm not sure where you are wathe, is your mandate as wide as ours re authorised worker list?
are you talking about the exceptional circumstances exceptions? So far it looks like businesses are very reluctant to make use of them. A lot will depend on legal and political challenges.
The Victorian Equal Opportunity and Human rights commission has had mixed reviews about how effective they have been, but fyi their covid info page has not been updated since the mandates and they also only talk about the Equal Opportunity act rather than the Human Rights act. Unfortunately, since a lot of this is new and unprecedented, it will probably only be sorted out through legal challenges.
No, it's not. Yet. But I think it's coming - just a matter of time.
Yes, exceptional circumstances. We do not have such an option here.
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Adding to my post above:
I should be clear that our Canadian vaccine mandates are more patchwork and less sweeping than the Australian and US examples.
In my province, we have a provincial passport system for non-essential services (movie theatres, concerts, sporting events, meeting spaces)
We have a multiple separate mandates for provincial health care workers - the one for hospital workers a separate order than the one for long-term care workers.
We have a separate mandate for federal workers that's in prgress
And a separate mandate for travel on planes and trains and marine vessels, also in progress and not yet fully implemented.
there are probably others in other provinces that I don't know about.
Edited for clarity
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2 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:
Victoria, Australia doesn't.
People with religious reasons can go on unpaid leave. The medical reasons are extremely limited.
No jab, not allowed to work, unless strangely you are federally employed. They are exempted from the mandated vax
Medical exemptions are narrow here too, but they exist. I had a look at your legislation. The list of medical exemptions is very similar to ours.
It's interesting that you also have exemptions for emergency situations. We do not.
Like you, we do not have a testing option.
I'm interested to hear that there are places without religious exemptions. Here they are very, very narrow, but they exist. Your Victorian Equal Opportunity and Human Commission (which seems to be a government agency?)seems to suggest that exemption for religious belief (but not for personal or philosophical belief) would be defensible in court. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Though I don't think that there are any mainstream religions that formally object to this vaccine, so maybe TPTB felt that including it as an exemption wasn't necessary..
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36 minutes ago, Bootsie said:
They can terminate the the employee. They cannot make the employee vaccinate. In this situation they are an enforcer of a consequence if the employee does not vaccinate. This policy simply places the burden of enforcing a government policy on employers.
But that's true of most health and safety policies. The employer is generally responsible for enforcing compliance with all of them - hard hats, safety boots, sharps disposal, other mandatory vaccinations, Tb testing, mandatory workplace safety training. The employer has to ensure compliance, and the employer is on the hook if inspected and non-compliant. This isn't new.
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9 hours ago, TechWife said:
I hope when I use the word choice, people realize that by doing so, those with legitimate medical need are not included in those who are making a choice not to get vaccinated. One of the reasons I vaccinated is because I realize that some people really don’t have the choice available to them - my vaccine helps to protect them from illness by reducing the likelihood they will be exposed to Covid.
Using to jump off:
And that vaccine passport programs and government employee mandates and other mandates that have been discussed in this thread and elsewhere on the board all have exemptions for those with legit medical or religious contraindications to the vaccine. I haven't seen one that doesn't.
Edited for word choice
ETA - I've learned down thread that religious exemptions aren't universal. Medical exemptions do seem to be universal, though, if narrowly defined (which I agree with).
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4 hours ago, I talk to the trees said:
1- Thank you for all you do. I know HCWs are burned out and exhausted, but keep trudging onward. Know that there are those out there who greatly appreciate you.
2-I am so sorry. Sorry that you have to deal with situations like you describe. Sorry that people are unwilling to do their part in reducing the strain on the health care system. Sorry that people are so selfish that they can’t see beyond the end of their own nose. And sorry that even after reading post after post after post from you and other HCWs, there are those on this very forum who foolishly continue to spread and defend the misinformation that has cost and will cost so very many lives.
This is kind, and I appreciate it. Thank you
Unfortunately, many staff are declining to trudge on. They are leaving. We have lost 2 senior MDs in the last month, with a third with his foot out the door. We haven't had a full nursing complement in months and months. We routinely work short - very, very short. Anyone who can afford to leave is leaving - near retirement, or with enough seniority to transfer to another department, or financially able to quit - they are all gone. We are losing senior, experienced people, who should still have many years left. I have never seen so much turnover in my 20+ year career. Replacement staff, when we can get them, are young and green. The collective loss of experience is tremendously damaging to the department and very bad for patient care. These are jobs where experience really matters. The fallout from this will be felt for years and years.
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3 minutes ago, Evelyn2108 said:
This is my last response, since things are getting repetitive.
2. We don’t have a standardized way to collect data on adverse effects, and some doctors have come forward to express concerns (more then the single one I quoted).
We do, actually.
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Updated at bottom... Blood clot... Help
in The Chat Board
Posted
Microtrauma. Tiny nicks in the skin are big enough - armpit shaving, nicks in cuticle etc.