diaperjoys
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Posts posted by diaperjoys
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We just brought our 11yo 5th grade son home mid-year. We're excited about the mix of curriculum we have lined up for him, and we officially started school today. One thing I hadn't thought through was his handwriting. Very sloppy. Legible, but barely. He's exactly like papa in this regard! I need to decide if we're going to make this an issue or not. We're starting keyboarding/typing, so those skills will be increasing. Is it worth it, at this stage in the game, to add handwriting as a subject?
When he writes slowly and carefully there is minimal improvement. It is possible there is some undiagnosed dysgraphia going on as well - he has trouble making his "a" and his "o" distinct. And, now that he's been writing in cursive for a few years, he comments that he can't really remember how to write in print.
Suggestions?
Thanks a bunch!
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Our ADHD son had a sleep study awhile back. Tested normal. He does have difficulty getting to sleep at home, but melatonin helps enormously with that.
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Thank you! Went ahead and placed him in 6th...
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11yo boy - leaving a school where he was using Shurley level 5. He has super strong vocabulary, writing, and reading skills. But he gets lost in the Shurley methodology. I want him to be highy successful with his next grammar book, but not bored, either. Do I need Easy Grammar grade 5 or grade 6??
Thanks so much!
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Are you trying to print directly off the website? I found that didn't work as well for me. I ended up opening the file, then saving it to my computer. I printed it off of my computer instead of the internet link. Worked really well. Have you tried that?
There. That worked perfectly. Thanks for that tip!
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Give him the placement tests, then use the year behind where he places. I used the grade 5 as a quick review after my son completed Singapore 5B. He'd spend 30-45 minutes on his regular level math, then do 10-15 minutes using CLE. It really helped shore up some basics while still moving forward.
If it gets too long, you could split lessons up, since it's review anyway. You don't need to finish at a certain time.
Thank you, that is helpful. It is one thing to do diagnostic tests and determine typical placement. It is another thing altogether to figure out where to place him for review purposes.
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I'm trying to print out the diagnostic tests - the web site freezes each and every time I try. Any tricks to making it work?
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We're abruptly pulling our son out of the classical school he's been attending (long story). He's halfway through Saxon 65 at school, and he is on lesson 17 of Teaching Textbooks 6, which he uses at home.
He does super well with TT, and I want that to be the text where he learns his new concepts. The instant feedback that TT provides is absolutely perfect for him. But math is his weak subject, and he needs a very, very tight spiral for substantial review. Enter, CLE math for review.
Can anyone offer suggestions as to where to place him in CLE? I want the CLE to be review, not grueling difficulty. Something he can whiz through and build confidence with, while exercising his math muscles. He knows most of his multiplication facts, and is working on learning long division.
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Hake's users, how doable would it be to use Hake for grammar only? We're thinking of WWS for our formal writing program, and probably wouldn't want to double up on writing assignments. Is it easy to skip the writing instruction, or is it so interwoven that it would leave the program hollow & cumbersome to use?
Also, which level would you recommend for combining these two students? Student #1 is 11 and in 5th grade at a classical school, student #2 is 10yo, and in 4th grade at a classical school. Both are using Shurley grammar this year.
The oldest, in particular, needs a tight spiral if he is going to retain anything, which is why I'm eyeing Hake. Something like Growing With Grammar, which we used when we previously homeschooled, is easy to get done, but he is super gifted in his ability to mindlessly fill in answers based on context, and not retain any grammar info.
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Yes, I have used AAS in the past, but the child in question was still too young at the time. I don't remember it being a dyslexia remediation program, but more spelling specific.
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How do you like Barton? I've poked around on the website, and it is sooooo tedious to listen to Mrs. Barton describe how the program works. Are the DVDs that come with the program like the demo materials? And I think I read somewhere that the program is scripted? Is it one of those systems where you are supposed to read every word off the page exactly as written in order to see results? If it is, I'm afraid my son and I would both run screaming.....
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Oh, I'd certainly much prefer to do any intervention at home rather than send him to a tutor. I think the next step is figuring out where to take him for a diagnosis. We checked into going through the public school for evals with our older son, and it was a total bust. I can't remember the details, but it didn't work out at all. Our school gave us the name of someone who does tutoring for adhd/dyslexia, and they do dyslexia screening too. But I question whether a screening done by a tutor would be of any real value. Our pediatrician gave us a few referrals as well, but none of them stand out. I wish I knew more about what specific tests we need. I'll keep hunting. Hopefully I can find someone with a reputation that stands out.
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Yes, I really do think there is some variety of ADHD going on. However, it is my gut feeling that the ADHD is not at the forefront of the learning difficulty. Front and center is something "off" with the ability to see and process symbols. He's smart, which is why I think he eventually was successful learning to read. However, it is happening all over again with piano. I'm a piano teacher, with tons of experience teaching, and I've also taught all my own children to read music. So I have a solid feel for the many variations of normal when it comes to learning to read music. This is definitely not normal. Distinguishing notes one from the other, understanding the various symbols. It is really, really, really slow going. He likes it, and he's happy to learn, but I'm needing to keep the lessons very short, and very simple, and keep progress crazy slow in order not to lose him.
Well who did your vision eval the first time? And was it an annual visit and a screening or a full developmental eval? Typically a full developmental eval is several hours and costs hundreds of dollars. I think it's reasonable to do an annual vision exam on a dc, just like you go to the dentist. I think it's prudent to do it with a developmental optometrist you find through COVD, so that you can ask them to *screen* for the developmental vision issues. That's a $60 option, not a $300+ option, kwim? That to me is prudent. Then you have information to decide if you need a deeper eval. But you know if it has been a couple years since his last vision exam, that normal $60 vision exam, done with a dev. optom., would definitely be reasonable.
You are correct that kids can look VERY different and still get the same label. Since you've already been down this road, well the odds are even higher that it's involved. (in the genes, in the family) My dd and ds are very, very different. You do realize that ADHD has subtypes, right? My ds has a LOT of motion as the psych put it, lol. I think he was right on that line where he thought about taking it to combined. He went inattentive, but there's a LOT of motion there. I put him in classes at the Y to burn some of it off.
You don't know till you get the evals. You want to make sure the psych you used before is going to nail the dyslexia. If that's not something he deals with a lot, then find a fresh psych. Not all psychs do dyslexia. We first started looking at a clinical psych who specializes in gifted, and while she was awesome she was totally going to punt on the dyslexia issue. The neuropsych was MUCH more aggressive. They now have CTOPP testing to get this diagnosed MUCH earlier than before. They could diagnose it on ds as a newly 6 yo with no reading. It has just totally changed from the days of let them fail, let them fail, finally diagnose.
I wouldn't hesitate to put him on meds if the motion is interfering from his ability to learn basic skills. I'm all for an adhd-friendly lifestyle, but I need reading to happen. The psych will look at other things you're not expecting like working memory, and you'll have some options you're not expecting. (OT, cognitive therapies, etc.) I'm sorry it's so expensive. We need to go back to bartering days and trade chickens or something, sigh. Somehow these professions have gotten to where they make 10X what most mortals make and it's just frustrating.
There can be social delays with ADHD, and I didn't realize this. It's pathetic that I didn't realize, because I've sat here reading books on it for years now. It's just when you see it in front of you you, well, it's just the elephant in the room. And yes, I thought he was going to get a pddnos label. I couldn't figure out what in the world was going on. I couldn't figure out if we should even be calling him K5 this year. As you say, it would SEEM like a grade adjustment would solve the problem. It doesn't *really* though, because his IQ is in the gifted range. He might need a grade 13, yes, but that will be for maturity. Academically he is not *delayed* but rather disabled and needs intervention. And that was a really huge distinction for me. People around me didn't get why I was fighting for the evals, but that was why, because without them you can sort out what is DELAY and what is DISABILITY. And it makes a HUGE difference. If you treat it as a delay and wait, you're missing the ideal window for intervention. If you treat something as a disability and intervene hard and push what they're not developmentally ready for, you frustrate them.
So that was my primary question to the psych: what of this is delay and what is disability, and how definitive will you be on this? He was VERY definitive and I think the psych will be with your ds too.
So yes, don't delay, not when you already know you've got the genes. Yes the mix will show up differently. My ds is so different from my dd, I couldn't see the forest for the trees. He's constantly in motion, has a much faster processing speed, etc. etc. You just have to roll with it. The DSM is the problem, not our kids. It's the DSM that separates out things that overlap and lumps things together that they don't understand well enough yet to distinguish. What ISN'T wrong is your mother gut. Your mother gut says something is wrong, and your mother gut is right. And you don't have to know what is wrong. All you need is to make the decision to find the right person to get the answers.
:grouphug:
PS. Come hang on LC. We're crazy fun over there. :)
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Since 60% of kids with dyslexia also get an ADHD label, the real question is who should be doing the evals. And either way, it's a psych/neuropsych. So you get the evals and let the psych sort it out.
As far as the vision, sure get him a fresh annual check with the developmental optometrist. If the doc wasn't on the COVD list, then yes move up the food chain. I get my ds screened every year and he doesn't have developmental vision problems. What he DOES have is crazy spatial and visual processing issues. Even though a chunk of dyslexics will have the vision issues, that's NOT what the psych is going to look at to diagnose. They're going to be looking at the CTOPP scores (phonological processing), RAN/RAS (rapid naming), and the total picture.
So you homeschooled him with typical phonics and then a year and a half ago put him in the cs? I don't mean to be intrusive, but why is he 2nd grade when his age-grade would be 3rd? If he's dyslexic and grade adjusted solely for that, it might be you're covering up the disability. At that point he could be way behind his IQ. That is DEFINITELY something they'll take into consideration, when there's a serious gap between achievement and IQ despite normal instruction. There are also articles that get mentioned here on the board basically showing that grade retention doesn't work, that you have to INTERVENE.
So I'm not meaning to frighten you, but I'd be very reluctant to let an issue where a child is performing at least a full grade below his age grade, struggling to stay above water, and let that go another year before eval'ing and seeing what's going on, kwim? This is the time where you INTERVENE.
That starts you into the whole question of who, how to afford it, how to be realistic about it. I assume the cs thing was a reality thing, so reality for this? Reality is you get the evals you can afford and get the intervention you can afford. But I'd rather have Barton at home and no cs tuition for that kid (as in withdraw him and do Barton 3 hours a day, which you can) than to pay $6-10K to the cs and not be getting the appropriate intervention. And 6-9 months could make a HUGE radical difference in his performance if it's dyslexia. This is NOT time to waste saying oh next year I'll take care of it. NOW is the time to get it figured out.
So first whatever evals you can make happen. Then whatever intervention you can make happen.
If it's not dyslexia, if it's only adhd (I say "only" as one knowing what a serious pain in the butt and problem it can be), you still need the information from the evals to make decisions on how to help you. To me he sounds sort of drowning, like he's in this system, trying, trying to paddle and keep up. You don't want him to slide under. Evals help you figure out what his life raft is. Or as one person put it: You don't have to be the psych. You just have to make the decision to hire the psych.
Seriously. Don't try to be the psych. Just make the decision to hire the psych.
If your budget is free, then go through the ps, Scottish Rite, or whatever you can make happen. Or eat oatmeal. Or withdraw him from the cs and use the tuition money to afford evals. And eat oatmeal. Good evals with a psychologist or neuropsychologist well-respected in your area for adhd and dyslexia. They pair so much, you can find someone. They can sort it out for you. The answer can be both.
Thank you so much, all of you, for all your thoughts and suggestions! Very helpful! We spent last year sorting out one kiddo with suspected Asperger's/ADHD, and this year we're realizing that there must be something underlying going on with our almost 9yo. He was placed in 1st grade last year because we wanted him in the grade where he would thrive. At that point we had no idea there were problems - we just knew that even before he was born, this child was super active. At home it took a lot of redirection to get schoolwork done - and yet it doesn't look anything like our son with diagnosed ADHD. He was reading when he went into first, and he did very well with that year of systematic phonics. In terms of his maturity, and his reading, that grade was the perfect fit for him. Spot on. Second grade has been harder - certain skills have ramped up their pace, and it has been hard for him to do what has been expected. Hindsight is 20/20, so we can see now that there is more than activity level/immaturity driving these difficulties. My husband and I are in the process of figuring out the right time to pull the kids home - there are quite a number of factors affecting that decision, that I won't go into here.
Oh Elizabeth, we had neuropsych testing done for one child last year - (tried a zillion options and ended up having to pay out of pocket, so yes, lots of oatmeal around here!). We were testing for completely different issues, but it sounds like the neuropsych may also be valuable for our almost 9yo. And then after that think about re-evaluating the possible visual issues? Is that the sequence you'd recommend?
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Our almost 9yo son is reading fairly well - he's in second grade, reading at a second grade level. He's an extremely active boy, and learning to read was a difficult task - it took three years! During those three years he did not have trouble with reversing letters, or reversing numbers, or reading words backwards. He did have a terrible time, however, copying anything, particularly copying anything off the white board. So I thought there was a vision issue, and we had that checked out, including a trip to a doctor who did vision therapy. And we came up with nothing.
Fast forward to the present. As long as he's reading right at grade level he does fairly well. Words above grade level really trip him up, and I see rather more skipping than usual. He makes 80's and 90's on his spelling tests, but spells rather sloppily on any other work. Copying off the board is still very, very hard, as is accurately copying words from one paper to another paper. Not a mechanics issue - he can write neatly enough - but he gets the letters and words jumbled when carrying them from one place to another. Getting spelling words in ABC order is insanely difficult.
Now, though, he works with bigger numbers in math, and we are seeing very consistent reversals with numbers. Not writing backwards, but reading "311" as "113", for example. He understands math concepts well, and is borrowing and carrying nicely, but those numbers are always reversed in his mind.
He's in a classroom setting this year, and we plan to bring the kids home for next year. I'm thinking through curriculum, and not sure where to go with this fellow. It is hard to tell how many of the issues are tied to his ultra high energy level/low focus, and which issues are truly issues. If this is dyslexia, I can't see doing anything about it this school year - the school is very high structure, and he is about to burst by the time school is out for the day - adding commute time to get to a therapist, or even adding extra "afterschooling" would just undo him. Next year, though, I want to thoroughly help him however we can. But how to help?
Any ideas? Does this picture ring any bells for any of you? What has been helpful, what has been unhelpful?
Thanks so much!
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Hugely helpful, thank you so very much!
Silvermoon, now that you are actually using the curriculum, how satisfied are you with the content? It sounds like it does a terrific job of capturing interest - are you satisfied with the world history covered, and the science involved? In other words, would a student come away with a reasonable grasp of the historical events covered, and are true strides made in scientific learning? Would you want to use the curriculum again with a younger student?
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We've been eyeing Adventures in the Sea and Sky, but we'd be new Winter Promise users, and I'm not sure what we'd purchase for our crowd. I'd love to hear from anyone who has actually handled & seen these materials!
Our school aged kids would be 7, 9, 11, and 12 years old (2nd, 3rd, 5th/6th, and 6th/7th grades). I see we'd need the S&S core, but I'm getting lost when I look at the various add ons. The supplementary books from other titles we'd want to purchase separately from another place.Do we need two copies of the kit for younger folks, or does just one suffice? And the core says it is for 4th - 8th grade, but the supplement for older kiddos is for 7th graders. Which is most appropriate for a 12yo who is a voracious reader, but inexperienced at CM style narrations? And, again, two copies (for the two older kids) or one to share? How "sappy" are the activities? When I hear "activity" I think glue sticks and glitter, which makes me cringe, let alone my crew of boyish boys!
Any other suggestions? I'm looking for world history that the school aged kids can do mostly together. I greatly value open and go, as I'm teaching piano part time and we're foster parents as well. (We've had the most adorable baby girl for six months now!!) The kids have been at a classical Christian school the last two years, so this will be a transition year for all of us.
Thanks so much!
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My kids are getting ready to take their standardized tests (IOWA test). My 9yo still keeps a multiplication table handy when he is doing his math, and refers to it regularly as he does his lesson. Not every problem, but he'd be stumped without it.
So, do I have him take the IOWA with or without the table? Seems that it would no longer be a "standardized" test if he had it handy. But I can see it throwing his grade in a huge, ugly way if he doesn't use it. Maybe those cold, hard numbers are what we need to see?
What to do?
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So they are in second and third this year? I would do level 2 with them both. If you did 3 with them, your younger son would have to repeat it all the next year, which would be boring. Lots of people skip from 2 to 4 so your older son would be fine as well. There is SO much review in Shurley, especially at the beginning of the year. Level 2 will be a fine foundation to moving into either level 3 or 4 in the fall.
Yes, they are in second and third this year - getting ready for third and fourth next year. Sounds like level two should work fine. Thanks!
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Our older boys are going be enrolled in a Classical School next school year. They'll enter grades 3 and 4. The school uses Shurley grammar, and I need to get the boys up to speed with Shurley so they won't be blown away. Any ideas about how to do this?? My rising 3rd grader does very poorly with "conceptual leaps" of any kind, and my rising 4th grader can handle a leap if his foundation is solid.
I was thinking of spending the remainder of the year going through Shurley 2 with both of them. Think that'd do it??
Any advice on which books/workbooks in particular to use, homeschool vs. classroom version, etc. would be very helpful.
Thanks!
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Thank you for all the help. I'll drop WWE for the present, and also look into getting a better evaluation of his vision. This is a really smart little boy, and it doesn't make sense to me that his 4yo sister is light years ahead of him in copywork ability, and rapidly overtaking his reading skills.
Thank you.
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Getting ready to order Times Tales for my kiddos....which format is better??
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My 6yo (almost 7) is really having trouble doing copywork. He's in 1st grade, and we use WWE, and it is very, very hard thing for him to keep track of what letter he is on as he is copying the sentences. Writing a sentence from the board is almost impossible. He can copy if I write the sentence out completely & he writes in the same size font directly beneath my letters - but even then it is not unusual to have him miss letters.
Why is this so difficult for him? He's a very smart little boy, but a little slowish learning to read. His eye doctor gave him a pair of glasses to use while reading, but he doesn't like the way he feels when he wears them.
Any ideas??
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Glad it worked out well enough.
A couple things with OT would help.
1) they teach kids to evaluate how their "engine" is running: high, medium, or low and they teach them what to do to get it to medium. His engine was on "high." My ds was asked by an adult friend of family which he liked best: high, medium, or low. He said, "Medium." Friend then asked what it was like to be high, and ds responded, "I never know what I'm going to do next." Our ds used to laugh when he was like that,too, even if he was being disciplined.
2) Heavy proprioceptive input (muscle-joint input) is almost always one of the things that will help. Your ds slamming himself into the props was a form of getting proprioceptive input. Heavy proprioceptive activity in OT made an absolutely unbelievable difference in ds. He needed the level they could provide in OT and also their guidance; additionally, they taught him things he could do at home or when "high" to bring it back down to medium.
My son (SPD/ADHD) recently went through OT and learned the "how does your engine run" techniques. Very, very helpful. He now has many tools for recognizing if he is beginning to act hyper (engine too high), and knows how to settle himself (getting his engine just right). Just learning to recognize the 'engine states' went a very long way with him.
Additionally, for my son, it is a vestibular issue, and when the OT fills session with vestibular exercises, we then have a CALM child for the remainder of the day.
Highly recommendd!
Spelling Placement
in K-8 Curriculum Board
Posted
Another question regarding our 11yo 5th grader that we just pulled out of classical school. We went with Spelling Workout, and I grabbed the "F" book for him, which is the 6th grade book. When we started it yesterday, and I had him spell out loud to me the words on the first list. He only made one small error. So we kept going. It took until the third list before we saw any kind of steady mistakes - but it seemed they weren't mistakes so much as we'd used up his attention span, and the baby was being cute in my lap.
Should I jump him ahead to the middle of the book, or just let spelling be an easy breezy subject for him?