Justmeandyou
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Posts posted by Justmeandyou
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You've taken a bit of a beating by some in this thread.
I believe you.
I faced a similar situation. Someone very dear to me was not homeschooling her children. I spent a lot of time in the home, and I was someone whom this person considered a confidante. She told me honestly just how little they were doing. She attributed it at the time to a crazy life and lots of pregnancy. We later learned (years later) that her inability to cope was due to an undiagnosed and ultimately terminal illness.
I received the same types of responses to my queries on TWTM board that you are receiving.
I came to two crossroads points with this family.
My earlier crossroads was to decide that the children were definitely loved, fed, clothed, cared for, and not abused. They were never, ever hit by either parent. If anything, they were under-disciplined. Therefore I had no concern for their physical or emotional well-being, and there was no criminal abuse or neglect. I chose therefore to provide resources for the family, and to try to urge them to actually do school. The result was years of cycling through the same conversations, her confessing and despairing, me pleading and trying to show her how to do the simplest, easiest beginning steps of homeschooling. All to no avail.
This brought me to the next crossroads, at which I faced the fact that this would never change. Just as I came to this place emotionally, though, the reason for the lack of education (and generally lack of coping with many parts of her life) became apparent when she was diagnosed with a terminal illness. As this crossroads, I chose not to push the issue of schooling because it was important that the family treasure the time they had together before she died.
Eventually, the schooling was addressed in two ways. First, through involvement with a co-op. This got the ball rolling. Then, later, the children were placed in public school. They were all placed one grade level than they should have been according to their age. They did fine in school right from the start, and are now thriving.
If we had not discovered the terminal illness, I still would not have reported to DCFS. There was no criminal abuse or neglect, and the children were loved and cared for. I hated the fact that they were largely uneducated and had many a sleepless night worrying about it, but ultimately felt that less official interventions were all I could do.
YMMV. Just wanted to affirm to you that I believe you. I know how hard this is. I respect the care and thought you are putting into this. :grouphug:
Thank you very much. If it was feasible for me to take them in and teach them everyday I would. Mom has asked me too, but I just can't handle 4 additional children. Several of the co-op moms are transporting them too and from events so they can participate. I wish I could do more. They are good kids.
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I am purposely being vague. I've explained that I don't want to put out huge amounts of information on a public forum. This family is not unschooling. This mom had never even heard the term until I asked her about it.. Unschooling is very uncommon here. I would have no issue with purposely educating in a different manner. Again, I am truly trying to help. I made the original post basically wondering if my concern was normal. The overwhelming response is that most people would also intervene in some way. If the vast majority had stated they would ignore the situation, I would have spent some time considering whether or not to try to intervene.
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We have a school room. Most school is done there. Sometimes we move to the kitchen table and the oldest often goes into her room.
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We do not allow it at all. Makes it easy. I have heard such horror stories of parents constantly fighting their kids over video games that we've opted to not allow them in our home.
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I think that, rather, there are some of us who question the need for you to run interference with the family. You have done so because you chose to do so. Not much left to add other than best wishes for their welfare.
I am trying to help 4 children. I would like to see them be able read, do basic math and write simple sentences. I don't think that is such a huge thing. If I do nothing, then they grow up completely illiterate. Is it truly preferable for kids to grow up unable to read or write than for someone to try and help the family?
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People lie. ;)
But seriously, if I felt someone was being nosy about my kids or my family, I'd make a dismissive comment. In my mind, I might actually think I'm being humorous. I wouldn't mean it as a lie, it would be meant as a dismissive comment intended to convey the idea this line of questioning isn't welcome. Calling CPS is a serious thing with serious consequences. When I started homeschooling, I looked into options of what I should do if the police or truant officer came to my home. I can't imagine doing that to another family without serious reason. A comment is hardly serious reason. Lagging reading skills is hardly serious reason. In the absence of any evidence, the only thing left to go by is imagination.
I am not lying. I am not relying on one comment. I am not making things up with a wild imagination. I am not being nosy.
Have you missed the part where I have (repeatedly) stated that called CPS is not something I want to do?
'Lagging' reading skills is what you call someone that is a few month to a year or so behind. Children that have literally zero literacy skills at ages 8 to 13 is NOT lagging behind. Per the teaching parent, they are not being taught at all. You seem to want to argue that I don't know anything about this family or these children, therefore no intervention should take place. You are mistaken. From these forums and others, I am aware that you like to pick fights and argue just for the sake of arguing, but you assertions are completely and utterly incorrect.
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I know you probably want this thread to die, but I'd like to suggest recommending that the mom get counselling that might help her get on track.
I have known families like this with mothers who have been overly committed outside the home with their personal endeavors. I've seen an private intervention happen with one family that actually made a tremendous difference for the kids. I've also known a family with a child who developed major problems as a teen due to emotional issues created in part by an untreated learning disability and a lack of education. The family eventually sent him to boarding school where he is now being educated, but there has been a lot of pain for all in the process. With these, and another family I've known, the moms were clearly dealing with their own difficulties from bipolar to ADHD. All of the moms recognized the problem but needed help to make a change. They could have not done it alone without being forced into it, one way or another.
Yes, I agree. This is what I am gently trying to do. Thanks
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I've gotten a lot of PMs asking for an update. There isn't anything to update, no changes. Thanks for the concern.
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Since there are a few people that seem hell bent on bashing me trying to genuinely help a family, I will be leaving this thread. AS a final update, I have contacted an ex-CPS case worker that I know from another county and she has told me that if she had been handed this situation, she would ask that the children be removed from the home. I have contacted the school district and they will not get involved as the family has a letter on file saying they homeschool. I am trying to figure out a way help these kids without having them yanked out of their house. I am sorry if some find that bizarre, but whatever.
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I agree. The mom has no intention of doing anything differently and I think the OP's bizarre over involvement (seriously? calling about tuitions??) is pathological at this point.
That is extremely hurtful. This is why I rarely post on homeschooling boards. There are such rude, mean hearted people here. I am trying to help some kids out and you are calling me names. Classy.
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OP, I am so sorry about your dog. A 9 month old puppy that is that aggressive should be euthanized.
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In this situation, I'd be inclined to encourage the children (perhaps just the oldest) to make phone calls to people who can help them -- such as the homeschool association, or a local school's librarian, a public librarian, or a "kids help phone". (Do you have that?) They can ask questions about getting books, or resources, or registering in public programs (ie 'homework help'). The kids can talk about what bothers them and ask for help to think if what to do about it. This kind of subtle self-reporting by children will probably get a more sensitive response than if you report this situation more forthrightly -- plus people probably will enroll them in programs, send them 2nd hand curriculum or samples, tutor them, etc.
If you visit regularly, I suggest talk and action to support her vague good intentions. "Have you found those boxes? Let's go look!" // "Oh, this looks great! Now let's gather paper and pencils in one place for a learning centre." // "What lesson do you think you will start with? This afternoon or tomorrow morning"
Also, I'd try to occasionally email or text the mom so that some of her comments or intentions will be written form, with a date attached to your memory.
If things don't get better, the multiple contacts and writen record of event will be helpful in reporting -- probably to the school board, but possibly, eventually CPS.
This is my plan. I've located local free testing for dyslexia for the oldest (at home) to rule that out. I've compiled a list of less parent intensive curricula and emailed it. We have two university model schools in the area, I've contacted them to find out pricing and possible scholarships. So, now I just need to see/encourage mom to do something.
I am actually having trouble figuring out who to call in the school district if I end up needing to report the situation. I am not ready to do that yet, but am trying to find the right person to contact. That is about it. I think we can let this thread die. Thanks for all the input.
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It sounds like you have a clear grasp of the situation, and I doubt any more suggestions would be helpful at this point. It sounds like you know what to do.
I hope you will let us know what you do end up doing and whether the children do get the help they need.
BTW, I am curious what state it is you are in. The rules you gave sound like Texas, but you said it is not Texas. I ran a web search on homeschool rules and came up with no other state that has rules like that, with only those subjects mentioned. ?????
I paraphrased the rules in an attempt to cover them while not actually copying and pasting. Apparently in doing so, I made them sound like Texas. Sorry about that. I am trying to be somewhat vague as this is a very public forum. Anyone can browse through all the posts at any time.
I just looked up Texas, they have a rule about pursuing school in a 'bonafide manner" and specify text books, workbooks and computers. That would actually be helpful in this instance.
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If you are such an expert on education and on this family's status why do you need five pages of help from strangers on the internet to figure out what to do?
Because I have never seen such total lack of any educational motivation in a homeschooling family. Anyone in the public school world would immediately push for a CPS call. I wanted to feel out what the homeschooling world would do in the situation. I have gotten a lot of good insight which has been helpful. Being an educational specialist doesn't mean I know what to do about a family choosing not to school their children, it just means I realize just how very low those kids are.
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What sort of educational assessments have you given the kids?
How familiar are you with educational assessments? I am an educational specialist with a Master's Degree. Would you even recognize the names of the tests and understand what the scores mean? I am NOT saying I've tested them, as if I had and then announced it, that would be a break of confidentiality and I am not allowed to do that, especially on a public forum.
Why are you persisting in being so belligerent and negative towards me? I am striving towards figuring out the best way to help with family without tearing the family apart. You being so negative does not help this at all.
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Why wouldn't it still be? It seems like at bare minimum if the kids were around other kids in an environment like you describe that perhaps that would be an impetus forward out of their current state of complete inertia toward education. Maybe it would be a positive influence to be around people actually educating their kids.
They ARE in the co-op. The kids attend fun craft classes.
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Our co-op does not offer academic classes until high school. Elementary and middle school classes are fun, non-academic, non-graded courses like sign language, state history utilizing speakers and field trips and the like. If we had academic courses, then yes, that would be great.
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I would say dad is pleasantly oblivious. Mom is the leader of the family and dad does what she asks/says. It was her idea to homeschool, she likes the idea of it, just not the daily task of it.
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I think a tutor is the best bet. Hopefully that can happen.
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Brief update: Talked to the mom at length. She readily conceded that the kids were very, very behind. She said the younger two has never had any teaching/lessons of any kind. She said she had curriculum boxed up somewhere that she had not gotten out since their last move (2 years ago). When we left the conversation, she stated that she 'really needs to do something.' I'll leave it at that for awhile and see how it goes. I see the family 2-3 times each week, so I can keep up with them easily.
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A bit of an update The state homeschool association says to report them to the local school district.
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Outta here. My house, my children, my rules. Please don't move next to me.
This is what people that beat and starve their children say.
While I fully support limited government, sometimes parents are wrong and children deserve protection.
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If people who claim to home school turn out large numbers (or are even perceived to do so) them home schooling will become more and more controlled and possibly be outlawed.
Also you say the house is well cared for and the children well fed. Is this because the 13 year old is doing that too? I worked with a woman once who ran her household from about 11 when her mother died until she came to the attention of the authorities at 13 when she got pregnant. They were so worried about being taken away from their dad they had tea prepared before they went to school and the house was spotless.
Another thought - do you think the mother would actually like someone to intervene (similar to what another poster said).
I am not worried about anything like this.
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Could you gather some stories, preferably from your own state but other states might work too, about families being prosecuted for educational neglect? If there were just one story from your state you could show it to the mom and tell her how worried you are that this could happen to her family. Offer to help find tutors. A homeschooled teen might be really happy to have a tutoring job working with the youngers, though I am thinking the 13 year old may need intervention by someone who has experience teaching remedial reading and who may be able to pick up signs of dyslexia or other reading problems. The mom is not against the idea of the kids being taught but isn't making it a priority herself; I think I would push as much as you can on the tutor idea since she is open to that. I would just keep bringing it up: "have you found a tutor yet?"; "I mentioned to so-and-so you were looking for a tutor and she seemed interested"; etc.. If mom is really just not in the ball when it comes to her kids' education, friendly reminders of this sort just might be enough to spur her to action.
I'll look for some stories, that is a good idea. I am trying to find some tutors- boy are they expensive! $40 an hour. I had no idea.
She'd happily send them to me if I could take them, but I just can't. My plate is totally full with my own kids. Homeschooling is a full time job. There are several dyslexia testing programs here, so I'll give her those as well.
Honest truth, can you really lose weight after 40?
in The Chat Board
Posted
I think it depends on how overweight you are. I know lots of obese people that are able to drop a significant number of pounds, but I know very, very few over 40 women that are able to drop 10-20 to get down to their ideal weight. The ones that get down to that size 2/4 are exercising a lot. Like 3 hours a day and eating next to nothing. A woman I worked with years ago did it by drinking two cups of coffee for breakfast, eating a cheese stick and 2 Ritz crackers for lunch then a salad with a piece of bread for dinner. In the 3 years I worked with her, that is all she ever ate.