amyc78
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Posts posted by amyc78
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I'm thinking ahead a whole 18 months (cause why not? :)… Wondering if anybody has successfully combined these 2 programs? I love the look of CAP W&R but don't think it will work for us this year but thought it might be a nice creative complement to Essentials when we start that in 4th grade… Thoughts? Does a W&R book typically take a whole year to complete?
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Take a passage from literature.
Pull out any words that are tricky. Study the spellings.
Are there any words I don't know?
Note the grammar at play.
Knowing you are going to be writing this in a few minutes without peeking, the student will concentrate deeply for those few minutes. Any bits of alliteration, rhythm or rhyme will be noted as a help for the memory.
An older student (14+) might be able to do this all mentally, without guidance. (So it may look like nothing is going on.) I think a younger student (10-14-ish) needs guidance through this process.
Once the passage is studied and dictated, not only are the spellings and grammar implanted, but so is the authors way with words. This is similar to the concept behind CM picture study or composer study. Immerse deeply, enjoy the artistry for its own worth, note the details as an extension or crutch (not the core of the lesson), and reproduce.
ok thank you. I can keep this in my head as a readiness goal for the next couple of years.
In the meantime, for my 8.5 year old, I've been dictating the passage to him one sentence at a time, asking him to listen carefully, repeat the sentence to me and then write it.
I do this for narrations he has scribed to me and for passages from literature. This is separate from our regular copy work. I do not allow him to look at the paper and I do not repeat it more than once. But I'm wondering if instead of reading them to him, if I should be letting him study the passage one sentence at a time and copy from memory? Does it matter? Is a combination ideal?
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Read CM further. You are likely going to get opinions of CM that don't come from CM's actual words or intent.
CM did copywork and oral narration starting at age 6. She wouldn't refuse a 5yo a turn at narration, but she wouldn't require it until age 6. She wasn't as inflexible as a brief glance may seem. Likewise, she required written narrations at age 10, but would never discourage a 9 or 8 yo from trying out their pens a bit early.
She taught phonics and spelling thoroughly! She just did so from living books, thus there is no manual, thus there is a perception that she didn't teach these things. She taught through copywork!
So 6-9 is reading, copying, oral narrations and discussion.
10-14 is reading, copying, STUDIED dictation, written narrations in addition to oral narrations and socratic discussion.
She taught grammar and spelling ages 10+ via studied dictation. And, yes, when a child has cut their teeth on Beatrix Potter and has been reading classic literature since the beginning of their memory, good English oozes off the pencil...once the child knows how to use the pencil. Writing is, afterall, an art of putting to paper what ideas are in our minds. Oral narration builds the muscle that puts those ideas into words.
It isn't that a writing curric 6-9 isn't useful. It's that it might be taking the time and energy that could be put into greater things...oral narrations, good literature, copywork. You can teach many things at age 10 in 6 weeks, but how to put your ideas into words is not one of those things, That art must be cultivated over the course of years. Don't waste time on other things if they are usurping oral narration.
This. Yes. Thank you.
Could you define STUDIED dictation?
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I just came across this passage by Charlotte Mason the other day, and it pushed me a little bit farther in that direction.
‘Composition’ comes by Nature.––In fact, lessons on ‘composition’ should follow the model of that famous essay on “Snakes in Irelandâ€â€“–â€There are none.†For children under nine, the question of composition resolves itself into that of narration, varied by some such simple exercise as to write a part and narrate a part, or write the whole account of a walk they have taken, a lesson they have studied, or of some simple matter that they know. Before they are ten, children who have been in the habit of using books will write good, vigorous English with ease and freedom; that is, if they have not been hampered by instructions. It is well for them not even to learn rules for the placing of full stops and capitals until they notice how these things occur in their books. Our business is to provide children with material in their lessons, and leave the handling of such material to themselves. If we would believe it, composition is as natural as jumping and running to children who have been allowed due use of books. They should narrate in the first place, and they will compose, later readily enough; but they should not be taught ‘composition.’
So her approach differs from classical in these ways, if I'm understanding it correctly:
- start narration at the age of six, first orally and then with writing
- wait until the age of nine to begin formal writing instruction
- grammar should be taught by pointing out examples of the literature they are reading
- expose children to great literature so that they naturally imitate it in their writing
- allow children to interact with literature without adults butting in to use it to teach or over-explain it
Interesting… this makes me think about 18 months from now when we will start CC Essentials (EIW). I have often worried that that program would stifle creativity and 'natural writing ability'. Any thoughts on that?
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Just out of curiosity, which chapters are you wanting to skip and why? We are starting SOTW in a few weeks and I don't have a hard copy, just the audio download so I can't 'pre-read' for questionable content.
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Could someone walk me through a typical week of lessons in CLE Language Arts 300? How long do the daily lessons take? How many pages from the Light Units do you do per day? When I look at the samples, I can't tell how much of the lesson I'm seeing. Are there things in the teachers guide that are not in the workbooks? Creative writing assignments, for example, or narration / dictation exercises. Are there readers with the curriculum or do I need to do our own thing for literature / reading comprehension?
I'm 99% sold on this for us next year but just trying to get a feel for what a week of lessons will look like.
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We have loved MUS for the early elementary years. It starts off pretty easy but builds a really strong conceptual foundation and lots of math confidence.
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One of the things I would like to start encouraging my kids to do in the morning is some sort of Bible journaling. I found a cute printable on teacherspayteachers that included a verse, a space to write what you're thankful for and a couple application questions/journaling prompts. The only thing is, it seemed a little below where my oldest and too advanced for my youngest. What other resources for Devotions / Bible journaling are out there?
Ideally, for my oldest (8.5), it would include an assigned passage with space and prompts for journaling, prayers and gratitude lists. For my youngest (6), a verse or story printed on the page that could be read to her and then more free space to draw and write.
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"Clipboard Work"- I have torn apart our workbooks and clip a week's worth of stuff onto each child's clipboard, along with a checklist for each day so they know what to do. Anytime I am busy with sibling or baby or toddler, they are supposed to work on their clipboards, and I correct these as I get the chance. This has really, really been a huge lifesaver this year. They no longer disappear every time I have to jump up from the table, and lots of easily forgotten tidbits are getting done. On ds (2nd grade) board: French work (verb conjugation sheet, parts of speech sheet, workbook page), copywork or story writing prompt, math warm-up problems, Drawing With Children warm-up pages (from Donna Young site), map skills workbook page, clock workbook page (struggling with clock reading). On dd (K) clipboard- math warm-up problems, copywork, map skills page.
I love this idea! I have been doing something similar with a manila folder but only randomly. I like the idea of it being a more intentional way of covering what needs to be done.
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The only thing that seems 'light' to me maybe is the amount of reading and related exercises, only because you said whatever you can get them to read. Of course, i don't know what sort of reading you are doing for other subjects… But in my planning for LA, if we go with Abeka Language 3, I will most likely be adding some good books to our curriculum and narration exercises from our history readings.
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We are liking Reading Horizons. It works out to around $15/mo for my two girls. I really needed to step back a little from her instruction as neither of us were being patient enough.
Glad to hear I'm not the only impatient one… My little one has these stalling techniques she pulls out during reading lessons… last week it was a new itch every 5 seconds. Sometimes its multiple bathroom breaks. Today she yawned every 3 or 4 words. Making me crazy!
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We are using the free trial of Reading Eggs right now & I wouldn't consider it edutainment. I have been impressed so far.
I'm the opposite, Reading Eggs made me crazy. Only used it for one day of our free trial. I had forgotten about Explode the Code online, may have to consider that for DD6
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Help me to understand the question with examples of non-"get 'er done" -- I have the feeling that everything we use is done in a "do the next thing" and a "get er done" way.
For us, 'non-get er done' stuff are readalouds (we do them a lot but its the first thing to go when time is tight and mom is stressed), Sonlight (not sure why but we never got it done the way I intended), Timeline figures in the Timeline book, lap booking, arts and crafts. We don't have a lot of non-get-er-done stuff because I figured out pretty early what wouldn't get done and quit buying it :).
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*Generally* (barring sickness, travel, weeks of terrible weather, or Mama's mental health), we don't watch TV during the week. We do have what we call 'school screen time'- that is any assigned show, iPad game, brain pop, VP lesson, etc. Even that I try to keep to a minimum because my kids get so whiny and irritable when they have been in front of screens.
I used to think it was the content that mattered (so as long as the characters weren't being aggressive or whiny, it was ok) but I recently read an article that regardless of the content, kids (and adults) get a steady stream of dopamine hits while they are involved in anything with a screen. It has something to do with the fact that tv shows, video games, etc response time is quicker than real life, so the dopamine hits are greater than even doing something you really enjoy, like dancing or playing a game. When you take that screen away, it's truly like taking a drug away from an addict. Dopamine levels drop = fighting, whining, etc.
They are allowed to each pick a show on weekend mornings (so Mommy and Daddy can sleep in and have our coffee together :), and we have family movie nights, etc.
But, sometimes there is no way around it- I have a phone conference today that requires 45 minutes of uninterrupted time and so they will watch TV while I'm on that. Not the worst thing in the world, I just have to be prepared for some grumpies this afternoon :)
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Which do you prefer and why? We will not be doing the spelling from either…
I've seen the Abeka texts in person but only viewed the samples of the CLE Light Units.
It *appears* that both are workbooks that teach to the student, which is what I'm looking for. Abeka has creative writing exercises included in the curriculum, does CLE?
Does CLE have any reading comprehension / literature assignments? Copywork or narration exercises?
The cursive seems a little light in CLE compared to Abeka but that might not be a bad thing for us.
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Im struggling with this re MUS. I had thought about switching completely to CLE. And I tried to do both but we couldn't get it all done. But, I feel like have some of the same gaps with those topics that you listed. So, I'm not sure what to do....
Yeah, I'm not sure if this will work or not but we are going to try. The good thing is, we will finish Gamma in a few weeks and start CLE. Since he is just going in to 3rd grade, I don't feel like we have to start Delta right away. Although when CLE 300 starts covering division, I may break and do a few weeks of MUS Delta so that he gets the conceptual foundation of division first… I don't know, I'll just have to be flexible and see what works!
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My oldest loves science projects, craft kits, do-it-yourself stuff. He's pretty good at doing it on his own and helping his little sister. I have zero time to help with this, so I'm looking for some kits to order that they can grab and do together. Nothing that requires a lot of prep or crazy materials, unless already included. Ideas?
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Do you really need 2 math programs and 2 history programs? That's an awful lot of work for an 8 year old, and unless your planning to take longer than a standard school year to finish everything.
I've worried about this too but I think it looks worse on paper than in reality…
The math probably won't run concurrently. He is doing MUS Gamma now but I want to use CLE starting this summer to fill in some gaps, mostly in regards to math terminology as well as weights and measures, fractions, money, geometry, etc. However, CLE is a good bit behind where he is with multiplication so we will continue with Gamma and probably do Delta at a very slow pace. MUS has never taken us a full year, in fact he's finished most of the books in 6 months or less. (I thought about just getting some supplementary workbooks but most of those don't teach to the student the way CLE does and the price is really competitive with most of the workbooks I've seen.)
For history, we will listen to SOTW at our own pace. The VP is really more for fun for him, he begs to do it every afternoon when his other school work is done. We don't do all the literature and activities along with it, he just does the 30 minute lesson and games on the computer.
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MathUSee, VP Self-Paced History, AAR and AAS (not independent but quick, open-and-go and it works)
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Looks good to me, provided your child gets appropriate breaks and doesn't fatigue from too much seat work or writing. That would work with my third grader who is nice and studious, but plenty of other students might find it to be too much work, and others too little challenge.
You know your student - There is nothing wildly off base there, but it's all very individual at the end of the day :)
We won't do all of these subjects every day. I have no problem skipping problems or spreading lessons out. DS8 has really matured this past year and is able to do so much work independently and (generally) without complaining.
I'm thinking our schedule will be Bible, Memory Work, Math and Language Arts every day (alternating between MUS and CLE; and spelling only 2 days a week); then rotate between History, Science, Health and Art as extras.
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The science wouldn't work for my kiddo. She needs something meatier with a lot more hands-on. But she's a science kid!
Have a great year!
Science is my son's favorite subject and that's actually why I don't schedule much. He does so much on his own, interest-led and we do a weekly experiment in our co-op. He also watches lots of documentaries and reads reads reads. "Exploring God's World" seemed like a good jumping off point and it goes along nicely with our CC Cycle 1 memory work.
And I'll admit- I loathe hands on stuff :crying:
As he gets older and can do more of that stuff on his own, I'll add more to our studies :)
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And then some of us who do SOTW just listen to it and call it good for the first run through of the history cycle ;)
By third grade I am beefing up history quite a bit compared to first and second, though!
Honestly, many weeks that's probably all we will do. My kids will love the coloring pages but I think SOTW + CC Memory Work + VP History = more than enough history studies! ;)
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Just a note on SOTW1-It's very chronological from a world history point of view, so it jumps from people group to people group a lot. Some people are perfectly OK with it. Others find it too scattered for their personal tastes. If you find this to be the case, simply reorganize the readings by region and move chronologically within the regions. (Middle East, China, Greece, Rome, Africa, Europe, the Americas, etc.) You can pretty much do most of them in any order you like, but start with the chapters on What is History? and How Do We Know? and then go to Mesopotamia. End with the Romans because SOTW 2 begins assuming the Roman Empire in SOTW 1 was the last thing you did. That way you can still use what you have with just some minor tweaking.
If you haven't considered the Activity Books, you should. They're not for everyone, but people who like them tend to really like them. If you get the SOTW1 Activity Book you can pull from the lists in each chapter literature for independent reading and read alouds that directly relate to your SOTW1 readings. Some people like this more immersive approach. Others prefer not to use history based readings because they want more variety between subjects. It's up to you. The Activity Book also includes questions for and examples of narrations if you want to do a little subject integration for history and writing. There's geography, coloring pages and hands on projects for each chapter too.
Thanks for the tips! I have wondered about the Activity Books because I am NOT a crafty project type (although my kids love them and I'm happy to let them do anything they can do themselves pretty simply). Both my kids would like the coloring pages, though, and the narration ideas would be great for my oldest.
As far as reading, I haven't decided yet. We spend a lot of time on history between CC, VP and SOTW, so I'm thinking some fun stuff from other subjects might be in order
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Well, I don't know exactly what you are looking for and for what ages, but we love veggie tales. This is for younger ages. Their movies usually run about 45 mins long, so nothing quick about that. I'm also beginning to look in the Adventures in Odyssey. (For kids 8 - 12?) I believe their audio series (for example, http://www.whitsend.org/CD-DVD-More.aspx?itemID={37B9E9D1-37AC-4E0E-AC1A-4EDBA57A1E6B}&ul=m2)is really popular. Not sure about the dvds though.
I just looked at CBN's superbook site and that looks good!
We have loved Veggie Tales for years, as well as Whats in the Bible. Looking for something much shorter though. I love how BrainPop's topics change weekly and are about 5-10 minutes in length.
The Superbook app looks neat, and I have some kids Bible apps that I don't think even realized they do half of what they do!
A word of caution on Adventures in Odyssey- we started listening to them on road trips this past year. My kids are 5 and 8, and the 8-12 age range they give really is accurate. I was surprised at some of the content and had some interesting questions to answer. Also wasn't crazy about the sibling fights they constantly feature and use of the words 'stupid', 'shut up', etc
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Is it time to switch math programs?
in K-8 Curriculum Board
Posted
We are finishing up Gamma now and dragging through the end of it. The complexity of the 3 digit multiplication problems has made our math time easily take twice as long. My son can do the work and gets the concepts but he makes lots of minor errors due to trying to do so much mental math when our times tables are not solidly memorized right now. So we have decided to finish Gamma and then start CLE 300. I may go back to MUS for Delta at some point but there are some gaps and fluency that I think CLE will help fill in.
One thing I did a few weeks ago was stop all new teaching and print a practice worksheet each day from the website, then i would sit with him and work a few problems with him on a dry erase board while he copied on his paper and then let him do a few independently. This seemed to help a good bit.