Sarah0000
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Posts posted by Sarah0000
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Can he say those words again if you elicit them? For instance, if he has said "door" in the past and you point to the door, can he say door? I know that sounds nitpicky, but dropping words (saying them a few times and never again) is a HUGE red flag for apraxia. Again, could be nothing, and we could be talking right past each other. I'm just taking what you say very literally and saying it's really easy to go "wow my precocious child" and miss the SN going on. My dd, for instance, wouldn't color at age 5 but LOVED to sculpt, craved it. I just assumed she didn't want to color because coloring was uncreative. Turns out she is low tone and had some issues going on that she needed OT for to get her writing more comfortable. Go figure.
So anyways, at age 2, the BARE MINIMUM they're wanting to see is 50 words, where words can include animal sounds (quack, moo, etc.). Dropping words, too few words, number of words not increasing, serious intelligibility issues beyond what are age-typical (there are percentages for each age of what should be intelligible), oral tone issues (fatiguing when eating, refusing certain textures of foods), issues with rounding/blowing bubbles/other motor control, etc. would all be red flags to get checked for verbal apraxia. I know I wasn't at all clued into it, and the *old* advice was wait till 3, no biggee. Now the specialists will intervene a lot earlier. Given the hyperlexia you're describing and the way you're describing his speech, you might want to at least sit down with him and do an inventory and be very precise about what he has right now and google for some standards to compare that to.
His use of ASL indicates there's no language delay. That's why the question of his speech is important, because praxis is motor control, not a developmental delay. I'm not saying he has praxis. I'm just saying that you've said some things that would at least suggest you might want to sit down and inventory where he's at.
I could try to prompt him to say more words and find out. Do you think it could still be an issue if he reads words aloud from books just fine? He can read aloud way more words than he uses. He does not have any issues with eating, blowing bubbles or making animal sounds.
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None of my business, but if you're precisely accurate (that he has 5 words or less and is reading), you should get some evals. Animal sounds, etc. all count as words. He should be WELL over 50 right now with words he can say.
Oh no, he's said a lot of words over time including complete sentences, but he mostly has said them just once. He only has a handful of words that he uses on a daily basis, not including animal sounds which I didn't realize counted. I was just illustrating that it's not absolutely necessary to be able to say all the sounds or be talking well in order to read.
Edited to add that he does tell stories and nursery rhymes and things of that nature, but it's in ASL. Not sure how much that changes anything.
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I do not know about any studies, but I know that nothing is a substitute for parents (or other caregivers) talking to children. Nothing else builds vocabulary and an intuitive feeling for language like talking with a live person. A child who can express herself orally in grammatically correct sentences with a standard pronounciation will have a much easier time learning to read than a child whose oral language skills are lacking. Which is one reason why I find the early push for reading misguided, since many children in preschool age are not yet talking correctly. But how will phonetics make sense when children do not have developed phonemic awareness and an oral command of their native language? Nursery rhymes, finger games, songs... all play an important role in language development. Skipping this stage in order to race to formal writing seems unwise.
I know that there are studies that for families where a different language is spoken in the home, oral fluency in the native language is an important prerequisite to learning to speak and read in the foreign language of the environment. Apparently, there are crucial transfer skills. So, the advice that families should not talk in their family language at home is a very bad one, because that creates students who are not proficient in either their home or the environment language.
In our personal experience so far, it is possible to learn to read before really talking well. My son is 27 months old and he only routinely says a handful of words in normal conversation. He can pick out, point to, match, etc. all the initial letter sounds even though he can not make all the sounds. BUT he can read more words than he uses in normal conversation. He sounds them out. In fact, he uses letter tiles to help communicate with us since he doesn't talk well yet. For example, if we're trying to guess what he's talking about and we're not getting it, he'll go get the letter magnet the word starts with to help us out. He also is learning ASL so that helps a lot, especially since when he's reading he'll sometimes use ASL if it's a word he cannot say.
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I really like this discussion. I felt, and still feel, the same way about not pushing academics so early. And then it turns out I have an extremely precocious toddler. I'm of course proud of his abilities, but I do get tired of people assuming I'm pushing him with drills and flashcards every day of his life when in reality I've never done any such thing. Some people have even lectured me, in real life and other homeschooling forums, about the importance of free play over academics for young children. I wonder how many of those kids who know the alphabet before kindergarten are simply precocious children.
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Ok, that makes more sense. It's been several months since I read the Spalding book so I guess I remembered it wrong. I'm pretty sure I've seen vintage books that only teach the long and short sounds for the letter a, which I guess would not include the Latin a sounds. That's seems odd since Latin use to be more commonly taught back then.
Does anyone know where the short /a/ sound in English came from?
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I'm a little confused. I know there's two main systems of how to teach the /a/ sounds. Spalding and, I believe, many vintage texts (Webster's right?) teach two sounds as in map and late. LOE and I'm sure others teach three sounds as in map, late, and father. It seems to me that most people prefer to teach the three sounds, even if they prefer a Spalding or vintage curriculum. LOE also mentions the schwa sound (is this mentioned in Spalding/vintage?) as in about or ago, but I was left with the feeling that folks see it more as a bastardization of the way the sound should have been pronounced; the schwa sound is not listed as a separate sound for each vowel. It was my understanding that words with the schwa sound should be taught (for spelling rules, not pronunciation) like they made the long a or short a sound, and perhaps that even modern British English or Old English pronounced these words differently, in their "correct" form which would have been one of the two or three /a/ sounds specifically listed.
I just started reading a very simple intro to Latin book. It describes two /a/ sounds as in ago and father. If one of the main /a/ sounds in Latin is what we are calling a schwa sound, why is this sound not recognized as a "correct" or "true" sound for the letter a? In the book there are charts of English words that are nearly identical to their original Latin sources, such as calamitas and calamity, where the first a has the schwa a sound. This does not seem like a bastardization of the /a/ sound to me, but rather that the sound remained true to it's origin. If there is any bastard /a/ sound, it seems like it should be the short /a/ sound as in apple, since as far as I can tell this sound does not appear in Latin or German or even at least some of the Romance languages like Spanish (I don't know about the others).
I must have interpreted something wrong somewhere in all these different readings. What are your thoughts please?
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My two year old is mostly requesting the Peter Rabbit books. Our family read aloud is The Time Machine.
And not a read aloud but I just learned that there are sequels to The Giver. That's the next thing on my independent reading list.
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Oh, and also insects. He loves watching bugs, and other than ladybugs and worms I'm like "Oh, you're looking at that...um...black...um...oval bug. Let's call that an oval bug".
Multiple guides are fine if there's not an all in one resource.
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I like Charlotte Mason's ideas about taking the kids outside every day and just discussing the things you see in nature. The problem is that I don't know enough about what I'm seeing to really talk about it. My son is only two. Last year we took nature walks often and I talked to him about trees, flowers, bees, etc. For this year I'd like to expand into the specific types of trees, the parts of the trees, the species of bird, etc.
I've tried searching for nature guides but I keep finding very detailed encyclopedias with every plant you could possibly find and super tiny print. The guide doesn't need to be written to the preschool level since it's mostly for me for now, but I'd like it to be something that he could look at the pictures and maybe read a bit in kindergarten. I'm looking for something kind of like the National Geographic and other popular animal encyclopedias geared towards kids, but for plants, rocks, birds, flowers, etc.
Recommendations? I'm open to any ideas if there's a better way to go about this.
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Are the Suzuki books written to the adult or the child?
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Where do you buy Suzuki recordings?
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I'm also in Northern Ca and they don't seem to be controversial. They sound different than other charters though, at least the way my local homeschooling families use the charter. They basically take the stipend for curriculum and private lessons, but don't use the campus for much of anything, and only do the bare minimum as far as meeting with the oversight teacher and testing requirements.
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One of my brothers is like that. He does better standing up. Do you have a bar counter or a desk you can raise for an appropriate height for standing up and writing?
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Yeah, he likes the Ladybug magazine, it's just that it's easy to find material like that. But science, other than animals, is proving very difficult to find.
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I found some Wee Sing songbooks at the used bookstore. They are simple enough you can play the songs on a toy keyboard. She could probably start learning some of them too. Definitely listen to classical music. My son's favorite is Beethoven's 9th, fourth movement. I only have a two year old, so my experience is limited, but my son enjoys more than just simple kiddy tunes. He likes old American folk songs and patriotic songs. You can watch orchestras on You Tube. Check out your local orchestras for family or kid events. One near us has four free family events a year which include an instrument "petting zoo" where the kids can explore the instruments. Do you have a close friend or family member who has a piano? Netflix has a show streaming called Taratabong. It's animated, but it has different instruments playing music. You can start solfege with her.
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Or an arts and culture magazine would be great too, especially including music. Anything like that?
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I never heard of Weekly Reader. I checked out the website. I don't like how the preschool one has a lot of things to fill out, rather than just things to read and look at. I do like a couple of the older ones though when he gets older.
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Sparkle World looks really girly. I've never looked at it, I just saw it while I was searching around. You might be able to find some reviews on it.
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Hello.
What are some good preschool age magazines? What topics does it cover most? I've been looking around for a science magazine or at least a well rounded magazine that includes some science, but they all seem to focus on animals. The magazine Click seems to have the most science variety, but the focus looks to be still on animals or everyday things. Do any of the magazines regularly include astronomy, geology, botany, physics, etc.? My son loves the moon, stars, and star gazing so I was especially hoping for astronomy.
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Everyone reads from memory. It's important also to know how to sound out NEW words, but we read from memory.
Many people use phonogram instruction to teach SPELLING. You little one doesn't have the hand eye coordination to write yet.
I taught myself to read at 4. First I memorized words and then I figured out some basic phonics by working backwards and then applied those rules to new words. With instruction I could have read more faster, but there was no rush. It was so frustrating to be so ignored and neglected though.
I knew to never ask for more than one new word at a time. If I just asked for one, it was quicker and easier to give me that one word than to say, "no". I remember sitting on the couch with my book, trying to decode it and being afraid to ask for another word, because it was too soon after the previous one.
Memory is fine, especially for young gifted children.
You can also use RLtL or any other phonogram curriculum to teach YOURSELF, and then teach your son like you have been.
He started writing letters a couple months ago, spontaneously and to my surprise. Now I'm just trying to follow behind him showing him the correct way whenever he chooses to write letters. Like he'll write a lowercase g starting at the bottom so I just show him to start in the middle. But we play around with spelling with letter tiles not with writing.
Thanks for the responses. It looks like I'll need to do some research on how to guide gifted children instead of following the usual methods.
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Popping back in for a moment. :seeya:
Hey, Sarah. I think I get what you're asking here. You want to take the written lesson in LLTL, and basically do it while y'all are reading, when the actual sample sentences appear in the book, instead of reading the lesson from LLTL afterwards. Is that correct?
Level 1 mostly points out punctuation and capitalization, so you definitely could with it.
For Level 2, I think you could much of the time, maybe even most of the time, but not all of the time. I did not make any special effort to keep the sample text in LLTL in the same order that you'll find it in the book. Also, for some lessons, I was not able to find an example in that exact chapter of the book, so I got the example from a previous chapter. But I think you could much of the time.
Levels 3 and up would have the same issues as Level 2. In addition, since 3 begins diagramming, I think that would be too much of an interruption to the reading.
Re: RLTL, no, I don't believe it would be possible to use it, or really any phonogram based program, in that fashion. The focus is on analyzing the words, and like the diagramming, I think that would be too much of an interruption to the reading. In addition, the spelling lists in RLTL are padded with words from the Ayres list, so not all of the spelling words appear in the stories.
I hope this helps. I'm popping back out now, so please PM me if you have further questions that perhaps I should attempt to answer.
Yes, that's exactly what I mean! Thanks for clarifying my jumbled thoughts. I hope you all don't mind a follow up question since it seems like this thread has turned into a LA discussion. I've read so much about how phonogram based reading methods are preferable and to limit the amount of sight words your child learns. WHAT DO YOU DO WITH AN EARLY READER? I thought maybe since RLTL uses literature and is a gentle yet phonogram based method it might work with a very young reader doing it completely organically, but it sounds like not. DS is only 25 months and has started reading entire pages, all sight words. I've been illustrating sounding out so maybe he's doing that in his head, but I don't think so. He's memorized all the initial phonograms and I've decided to introduce the digraphs. I just don't want him to rely on sight words but I'm not sure what else I could be doing. Is it OK to just let him do his own thing, then when he reaches the normal age for starting a reading program to start something like RLTL? BTW, I had no plans to start curriculums or anything structured until first grade a la CM, but my little guy has different plans it seems. Now I'm a bit lost.
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Sarah, there are no comprehension question of the reading/literature. Are you familiar with Charlotte Mason methods? Have you read the early language arts section of TWTM?
I'm using RLtL with students that are already reading. I posted a bit about that earlier in the thread. RLtL is a bit similar to Logic of English, Spalding, Riggs. etc., but also includes the Elson Readers. Are you familiar with phonogram based reading/spelling programs?
Yes, I am familiar with CM, TWTM, and phonogram based programs but only through reading books and forums. My child is still very young so I've never used a curriculum before. I wasn't asking about comprehension questions. What I mean is, which types of lessons could be done completely organically while reading and not afterwards by reading the manual? For example, the sentences and words that are used from the literature to illustrate new grammar concepts, do those appear in the order you would see them in the book? Could one mark all those words and sentences directly in the book so that as we come across them we could go over the new concept orally? Would the sentences and words used be appropriately spaced for briefly stopping and going in this fashion, without losing reading comprehension? If I wanted to teach grammar and other LA skills (besides copywork, dictation, handwriting) that way, would this curriculum make that easier, or would I still be doing most of the work myself anyways?
I'm just curious about that. My son is nowhere near that level, but that is how he is learning to read. He has been learning phonograms such as in LoE, but it's completely while we are just naturally reading anyways. I am following the philosophy and order to introduce any new information. Like when we come across a new phonogram I point it out and ask him to make the sound. Or if its one he already knows I point at it and ask him what it is. I am wondering how long we can continue learning LA that way and if RLtL and later LLTL will help with that? If that's completely unreasonable feel free to say so!
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To clarify, you are suppose to read the chapter first, without referring to the exercises, then do the exercises afterwards? Is it organized in such a way that you can do the exercises orally (besides copywork) while you are initially reading the book? For example, could you go through the lessons beforehand, put a little sticky note in the book, and then while you are reading aloud with your child you can discuss the lessons as you come across them in the book? Which parts of the curriculum do you think could be done this way? Could RLTL be done this way with a very young child who has started to read on his own?
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I used RS methods to teach my son, currently 24 months, the numbers 1-10. We are now working on 11-20. There are sample pages and the table of contents for each of the levels on the RS website. They will give you an idea of the method and a starting point without the investment. Since my son is so very young, I am not following the actual lessons at all with any of the RS manipulatives, but instead I am following the sequence and methods during normal play with whatever manipulatives we happen to be playing with at the time.
What is the difference between TWTM
in General Education Discussion Board
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Would someone mind providing the full title and author of all the books mentioned in this thread? Also, could someone list the order they should be read, and recommended prereadings? Someone mentioned Leisure before Norms and Nobility, but is that also before Abolition of Man? I know zilch on this topic I'm definitely interested.