Meadowlark
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Posts posted by Meadowlark
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That was my goal too when I sent my oldest to public school. Sadly, they were too beat every night to give me any of their brain cells. I classical homeschool my other kids (more or less) and it's just beautiful! Best of luck.
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Science. I am thinking about 2 very different methods for teaching science. One being studying 1-2 subjects deeply over the course of the entire year, and then obviously not really reviewing after that because the next year you'd move onto another topic (think MP or Apologia). The other method being studying a wide variety of topics, reviewing every year at a deeper level (think BJU). What are your thoughts/experiences about which is more effective for true retention?
And finally, what if YOU don't care or want to do the topic? For example, although I see the value in it-I have ZERO interest in studying insects for an entire year!
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Following...I have 12 and 10 year old boys who are so hard to find shows for. I had to chuckle because I too was thinking, what's next after Wild Kratts? :-)
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I'm kind of finding that I'm in this boat, and ouch-it's hurting financially!
My son is very much a "get er done" all business kind of kid. He detests "fluff" and just wants black and white pages that he can systematically work through. He's a box checker to the max. MP works well for him.
My next daughter, however, loves the fluff and color. She likes distance videos with a storyline. She hates CLE math (which my son loves), and basically anything that's not colorful and fun.
Which leaves me with a 2nd grade box of beautiful Memoria Press guides that she doesn't want to use! So my question is, at what point do you just make them do it because after all, it's what you think is best, OR do you really kind of cater your curriculum to the styles/tastes of each child?
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A few years ago, I bought the full package of timeline figures from Homeschool in the Woods. Then, I printed out 4 giant horizontal timelines for the 4 years of history, and started it. Well, that was back when I had a room to display it. Now I don't but still want to use the figures.
Is there some kind of book that would suit us? I just want to have one book for the 3 kids. Something sturdy obviously. I thought I'd ask here before I go off searching on my own. Thanks.
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I'm interested in this conversation because we're using some MP, but I'm afraid to take the plunge on the science. Plus, we are still early on and since MP is generally very hands off, we're using a hands on science with a few of those canned experiments. Why? Because my kids love them and they infuse a little "fun" into our lives at this young age. I think there will be a time and place for MP science though as I look toward the future. With everything MP, I'm sure it's deep rather than wide, and I see great value in that. I find the "whole to part" philosophy very interesting and thought provoking. I never thought about it like that. I know I do love the idea of a guided nature study, which is how some users have described it. I was never very good at nature study on my own. The one thing that holds me back is that I do value a bit of variety and MP seems to stick with the same workbook format. Don't get me wrong-there's value in being able to compose a good sentence, but for science I want something different. Maybe it's because we tend to do science in the afternoon and by then, my brain is fried! Anyway, loving this discussion.
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1 hour ago, Ema said:
Haha, I know! My nephew is stoked to do a whole year on birds. Just didn’t know if it would get too repetitive...
Everyone seems to love MP science. Was a bit skeptical, but will give it a try this year.
I worry about that too. A whole year on insects? That is SO not my style! I've heard such different things about MP science. Some people seem to love it, and others think it's horrible. I think part of my problem is that I'm a visual person and so the black/white workbooks don't appeal to me. But having said that, I know that they're very well done and very deep at the same time. My kids don't seem to mind either. We'll probably end up trying astronomy or something in a few years.
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On 3/14/2019 at 10:35 AM, ByGrace3 said:
We are using CLE Math for the first time this year for my ds. He is doing the 6th grade book. We are a Math Mammoth family but ds needed some drill and spiral this year. And I needed a break from the depth of MM and the multi level steps of EVERY problem. MM is wonderful, but ds and I needed a break. CLE has been perfect for us this year....but that said, it is no where near the depth of MM, it is not conceptual. I am very grateful for the foundation MM provided. CLE is great, and certainly gets the job done-- in a traditional way. If that's what you are looking for, it fits the bill. However, it doesn't have the conceptual depth or depth of word problems of MM.
Okay, this is kind of what I was afraid of. I couldn't put my finger on what was exactly missing, but like I said-I don't see the wheels turning so to speak. It is solid, traditional and fine but I may look elsewhere for the future. Thanks!
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I'm using TS 1 and 2 with my 1st and 2nd graders. I have a few thoughts on it. I like it, but I'm not in love with it. Some of the activities on days 1-3 are geared more towards a classroom and I just can't (or don't want to) figure out how to make it work for 1 kid. Some of the dictation stuff on day 4 is weird too-for example it will say to dictate the sound of "wr" in write, but then the child is supposed to write /r/ instead of what is actually in the word. I just have them write how the sound is spelled in the word because why not? I don't care of they know the exact phonetic way to write it, but I do care if they spell the word correctly. So that kind of bugs me but is an easy fix. Days 4 and 5 are kind of a wash-day 4 is just dictation and day 5 is just the test. I don't know if the words are easy or what, but neither of my kids have missed more than 3-4 words all year. They like it because they say it's easy.
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So we started with Rod and Staff and switched 2 weeks into the school year to CLE, just because I happen to have the manuals from other kids.
So now we're doing 2nd and 1st grade. I'm trying to decide if I want to continue on for the long haul. My other son did 4th grade CLE and he struggles in math now in school. But honestly, math just isn't his thing so I think he'd be struggling no matter what the curriculum. I can't put my finger on what I think is missing. I'm honestly not doing a lot of teaching. My 2nd grader just gets it-sometimes I have to explain the new concept but rarely. This feels a little off. Yes, we do the beginning section and whatever is in the teacher manual.
Maybe it's a lack of critical thinking? Weak on story problems? I don't know. I love that it's really cementing those basic facts in these early grades, but I wonder at what cost. I don't remember the story problems in 4th grade being that great either. I don't want to do them a disservice by continuing on if they are going to miss out on complex story problems and critical thinking. I'm not sure what to do. It just seems way too easy. All 3 of my kids using it are about to finish their grade levels, and they very rarely get anything wrong or need help. Is there something I'm not seeing? Would you consider CLE advanced, not advanced, what is it? I know, don't fix what's not broken. But I just don't really see the wheels turning and that concerns me.
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Well, I took another look at CLE after reading through this post. We're currently using the MP guides for 2nd, as I mentioned above. My impression of the CLE books is that they are sweet, wholesome, and not that interesting! I think one thing to consider is whether you want curriculum published material like CLE's books, or "real" novels like the ones that MP uses. I will say that I can tell that MP will get meatier. I wasn't super thrilled about the 2nd grade lit guides. It felt a lot like just reading short parts and then answering questions. But I can see that from 3rd on up, there are a lot of meaty questions and enrichment activitities. It's easy to skip those, but I can see now that they will add a whole new dimension into the reading. For example, in Little House in the Big Woods, it suggested having a cheese tasting party after reading the chapter about how to make cheese. I was tempted to skip it, but it was super fun! You could always do both actually. Get CLE and then alternate with a MP lit guide. Just an idea!
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1 hour ago, socody said:
So you are referring to Classical Compositon? We have been using the Grammar Recitation. I do love MP but the grammar seems too simplistic and not complete enough for me. I’m not sure if I can do the writing or not. I WANT to like it but I’m just not sure...
I'm really interested in hearing what you mean by the grammar being too simplistic. I just ordered EGR 1 and after looking through the samples, I thought it was very meaty-more grammar that I ever learned anyway. So just curious!
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I think the answer to this depends on what you are looking for out of a reading program. If you could give more info, I will put my 2 cents in as I'm currently using MP 2nd grade, and have seen CLE's reading program also.
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We used the first one, Ancients a few years ago. I can honestly tell you that my kids retained absolutely NOTHING from it. I do admit that they were 3rd and 2nd grade (and now 5th and 6th) but they didn't seem to understand it then, and barely even remember taking the class now. I also wasn't a fan because of the constant sarcasm and bickering type stuff back and forth. The characters seemed to like to throw jabs at each other and I just thought it was inappropriate for the age group it was geered to. We finished the year and gave it up.
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14 hours ago, nixpix5 said:
Intro to comp is entirely based on WWE (narration, copywork and dictation) so if WWE won't work them intro to comp won't either. Plus, if you are planning to use the MP lit guides (Farmer Boy, Charlotte's Web, Mr. Poppers Penguins and Paddington) then it might be a bit repetitive for your student especially if you follow lit guide teachings to have your 3rd grader narrate good sentences and copy them.
IEW ATFF is actually fun and easy to teach. It isn't full IEW, it is intro into some of the basics and a really good foundation for classical writing Fable. Plus MP only schedules it about once per week so it is low pressure for 3rd.
Don't feel worried at all about teaching classical comp. Seriously, it is really straightforward once you start doing it and I love to see the amazing blossoming in writing that happens when kids start it.
I also 2nd IEW being a really wonderful way to build some solid writing skills. Keep in mind that it is based on classical writing progym though so if you go through the progym your kids will be acquiring all of the same skills just in a different way.
I have said this before on here but we do classical writing during the school year and then work through 6 of the 8 writing lessons in BJU English 3 during the summer and then do it again with English 4 the next summer. It probably isn't necessary but it makes me feel like I am building in those basics (letter writing, 3 paragraph essay, book report etc).
Okay, I have quite a few questions-see bolded above.
1. I've always wondered about this. Any idea why MP only schedules it once a week? I also heard they don't teach it the way it's meant to be taught, which confuses me. Seems to me that very little growth would occurr if the student was only doing it one time per week. And what IS the thing that they're doing for that one day?
2. I never heard this before-interesting! I always wondered why Andrew Pudewa was involved with MP and now I know why. Would you mind explaining how they will be acquiring all of the same skills? That part is fuzzy to me.
3. That sounds like something I would do just to cover my bases :-) Do you find that BJU's type of writing (I have the english 3 manual) is just totally different and useful to stretch the other part of the brain?
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15 hours ago, EmseB said:
Classical Comp is really dead easy to teach and in really bite sized chunks per day. If anything it feels like Fable is too simple after you do it a couple of times through (but my kids have liked each little story and rewriting them to fit each task). Watching the DVDs helps a lot too because you realize, for example, that kids are basically copying an outline in Fable to learn what it looks like; they aren't generating one themselves out of nothing from nowhere.
I have one in Fable and one in Chrea/Maxim right now and they are really not as daunting, IMO, as they seem. We plan on going all the way through, but will probably use MPOA at some point in the upper levels to get some objective outside grading and feedback as they get older.
Can I ask why you went with MP's Fable and not CAP's? I'm seriously torn between the two! While I love MP and all that I've encountered, too much of it is just a bit dry for me. I need a little variety or something to spice things up a bit. Maybe that's what CAP will do? Idk...
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4 hours ago, Elizabeth86 said:
So glad you asked! I'm not sure. I like the idea of it, but I can't get a good feel for what a days work would look like. I'm a bit intimidated by latin and if it takes up too much time I just can't. My 3rd grader is my oldest. I will have a 1st grader, a wild, crazy, demanding 3 almost 4 year old and a 1.5 year old next school year so...yeah I'm feeling crazy just teaching the basics to my boys, I'm not sure I can do latin even though I would love to.
Just popping back on to give you an idea of how Latin might fit into your day. First, we do right away in the morning. I got that advice from a seasoned MP user and think it's a wise move. The "lesson" is really very painless at this age. Prima Latina is very gentle, even for this mom who has never studied Latin in her life. I too was scared of it, but so far, so good. So on Monday, I pop in the DVD and the MP teacher teaches the lesson. Then, he goes back to the table and writes the new vocab with the translations and the practical Latin saying. That's it. Tuesday I may flash his previous vocab words as a review, then he does workbook 2 with minimal guidance. The next day I review with him maybe the other half of the vocab (because by now we have a lot!) or the practial Latin sayings and another vocab sheet (identifical to day 1). Thursday is the second workbook page and more review with me-maybe this day I review the Latin prayers. Friday is lighter with another vocab sheet. That's it! 20 minutes maybe?
The benefits that I'm seeing are this-my son thinks it's pretty cool to learn a new language. But beyond that, I see his wheels turning in a very critical thinking kind of way. He's learned about nouns, verbs, adjectives, adverbs, and prepositions and knows them cold. That was never very important to me in the past (and it's still not now-I think there's plenty of time) but since it was so effortless to learn it alongside of Latin, I'm happy he knows it. It just comes naturally. They learn that the Latin nouns end in a, so here's what a noun is in english type of thing. Grades 3 and 4 will be Latina Christiana, more gentle intro. But by 5th (first form), he will already know over 50 Latin words and a bunch of other stuff (that we haven't gotten to yet) and I can only imagine how helpful that will be as Latin gets a little more complicated. So, while it's definitely not necessary, I think MP views it as training the brain early and developing those critical thinking skills from the get go. But, an older child probably could jump in with First Form at grade 5 or 6 and do just fine too. HTH!
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17 hours ago, Elizabeth86 said:
Can I ask what you are using for grammar? That's the other subject I just can't decide on.
It sounds like you're doing a bit of MP, so are you doing Latin? As a former 6th grade reading/l.a. teacher, I am loving the way Latin is teaching grammar very gently to my current 2nd grader. MP schedules something called grammar recitation starting in 3rd, and from the samples, it looks like a no-nonsense, streamlined way to teach grammar. I tell you, the kids in my district learned "grammar" and parts of speech every year until 6th grade, and yet they came to me not even knowing what an adjective was. So, something is amiss. I'm trying this Latin/recitation approach this time around.
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Ooo I'm totally listening in on this because I'm making the very same decision (and just posted about it!) The only difference is my rising 3rd grader has not done WWE and is not ahead of the game. We do follow MP and while I'd like to just stick with their recommendations, I'm looking at CAP as well. So many people say that it's just easier to teach. But, MP has responded to the call of "heeeelp" from homeschoolers and now provide a help DVD for teaching past Fable. They also have online courses in writing but will run $500 or so. I know virtually nothing about ATFAF so I might try to figure out what that's about too. But, I can't wait to hear what everyone says here.
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I'm having a tough time deciding on where to start with writing. I feel like I failed my older kids jumping around trying to find our groove. We never found it. Now I'm starting over with the next crew and want to get off to a solid, strong start.
I know for sure that WWE is not going to work. IEW seems like a very pricey "what if" that I'm not sure I want to risk. EIW didn't work for us-the teacher talking to the class drove me batty. I just want something solid that I can stick with-that will keep this kids progressing every year into great writers by the time I send them to high school.
I need something for 3rd. We follow MP and they suggest either Intro to Comp (that goes along with the 3rd grade lit) or IEW'S All Things Fun and Fascinating. Then then in 4th it switches to their classical comp with Fable (which scares the you know what out of me when I look at it). I seriously feel like I'm not smart enough to teach classical comp! Then there's the BJU distance learning too.
So anyway, I'd love to hear ideas, with your reasons, for a writing program that might fit the bill. Thank you.
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18 hours ago, Pen said:
Curious if you have requested teacher-to- parent information yet and if so what result—unless too early due to holiday weekend.
Yes! It is scheduled. On another note, I had my other son's 6th grade conference last night. I felt like I seriously returned to planet earth! The two teachers that I spoke to had samples of his work to show me, gave me feedback on his grades, spoke about his strengths and weaknesses, and gave him things to work on, along with congratulating him for his great work and respectful attitude. There IS hope! Not all conferences out there are student-led, thank goodness. And since this is the (private) school that my other son will attend next year, I feel good.
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1 hour ago, Doodlebug said:
Because I contributed to this thread prior to details that have since been shared... because I support parents making wise/ hard choices on the behalf of their children... and because you seemed to want genuine feedback about measuring your own response in relation to this experience, I want to gently add that I see a lot of reacting in this thread.
Your frustration with this teacher's approach is understandable.
Pulling your DS when he has weeks left in a school he likes, is doing well in, AND you've satisfactorily seen three children through... Gently, that's 1/8 frustration and 7/8 reactionary.
Arguing about the type of conference and its merits, or lack thereof... reactionary.
If you're making the teacher and her ineptness the center of your energy (as opposed to making a plan for your DS)... reactionary.
This mode is helpful when I'm dealing with anger, but from experience, I think your S&*^ has hit the fan (maybe b/c of an entirely different stressor) and this thread is looking like anger/reaction splatter.
Said with all the empathy of one who has been there. ((((Meadowlark))))
Oh yes-for sure! Just be glad you don't live in my house because my husband heard a whole lot of my reactions for a few days, ha ha. Let's just say this was in fact the sh&^% that hit the fan. Already frustrated with what I've seen up until now-and then having this type of conference (without expecting it) just added fuel to the fire. But alas, I suppose now I will know what to expect and what the current trend is-student led conferences. No, don't agree with it and don't like it but it is what it is and the direction that things seem to be heading. But in the future, sure would be nice if the student was aware that it was a student led conference, or supposed to be.
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22 hours ago, bolt. said:
1. A student-led conference was planned weeks earlier. No parent-teacher conference was planned whatsoever. Other than having students lead conferences that day, it was an ordinary school day, like every other day. If she isn’t conference-ready every day (at the drop of a hat) I don’t expect her to be particularly ready that day.
2. Her job was to plan, host, and coordinate a student-led discussion for each student to have with his/her own parents. That’s a quite a bit of work. It’s a tough day to add a spontaneous parent meeting into.
3. The student-led conferences were planned by the school. If the school doesn’t plan a parent-teacher conference, it doesn’t fall to the teacher to prepare for one anyways.
4. I know you were there anyways, for the student-led conference — but you weren’t invited to a teacher’s conference. There *wasn’t* a parent-teacher conference that day. From your perspective, you thought there was supposed to one, so you expected one: fair enough. From her perspective, you just sprung it on her that you were hoping to squeeze in a spontaneous parent-teacher conversation, and she wasn’t able to oblige you. She redirected your attention to the student and proceeded with the student-led conference as planned.
5. Meetings like the one you want require some lead time, do it makes sense that she couldn’t immediately meet your request during the student-led conference activity. Maybe send an email to request a meeting ‘sometime this week or next’ and add that you are hoping to see some work samples and would like her opinions about your student’s strengths and weaknesses in the classroom.
To me, you walked into a pizza shop and were disappointed that they weren’t serving burgers. Definitely, they really should have done a better job of setting school-wide expectations about student led conferences. Expectation management is important. (Ours does. Your reaction certainly explains a bit about why my kid’s school is so firmly clear in the notification about what to expect from a student-led conference — and how set up an additional meeting with the teacher if you want one. I can see why someone might feel that this is a bait-and-switch from a parent-teacher conference.)
1. Hmm. I just went and looked at a former school newsletter in which it says the following:
"Parents-remember that parent/teacher conferences are scheduled next week" So indeed, they ARE parent/teacher conferences as defined by the school.
2. I wonder what "work" this is that you speak of? She shoved a middle school schedule in front of my kid and told him that he needed certain skills to succeed in middle school. Then she shoved a paper in front of him asking him to comment on words that he didn't even the meanings of. There were no work examples, no anything. So please tell me, what work did she have to do to prepare for this?
3. No, see my remark above. The school planned parent/teacher conferences.
4. Actually, yes I was. That's what I went online to sign up for as that's how it was defined by the school.
I can get on board that things have shifted since I was in the classroom 10 years ago. But I can't get on board with us coming to a conference (of any definition) and having the teacher sit back in her chair after the first 10 minutes and say "I don't really have anything else". Well, she didn't have ANYTHING. And no, she did not prepare my son for leading any type of student-led conference either. So in reality, what I got was neither. So I know absolutely nothing more today than I did back in October the day after his first conference (which btw, was NOT student-led). I still don't buy that teachers are off the hook about giving information about their students, whether it's a student-led or an authentic parent/teacher conference. Sorry, we'll have to agree to disagree.
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54 minutes ago, FairProspects said:
Yes to all of what Bolt said. At my school, student-led conferences are required. Students spend weeks preparing portfolios and a presentation. The first year I taught there, *I* spent weeks preparing all the data you mentioned dyou wanted during a P-T conference. It was a huge waste of my time since no parents asked and I wasn't allowed to give out the information with the student present anyway.
Student-led conferences are the current trend. Since your son's teacher is fresh out of teaching college, this is likely the way she has been taught to lead or conduct conferences as it is the new way. I agree with you that I prefer the old school parent-teacher conferences, but those days are gone. Unless educational philosophy shifts significantly, we aren't going back to those. All the podcasts, bloggers, administration instruction (which yes, goes in your formal evaluation) is in favor of the student-led conference. I agree that if you need more information, you may want to schedule an additional meeting, probably with the school counselor present as well.
Just to clarify, the teacher is not fresh out of college. She has subbed for the past 10 years.
Also, I will reiterate that this is the 9th conference I have gone to and this school (8 of them being last year), and NONE of them have been student-led. So the notion that this school is all of a sudden going to student-led conferences is not likely.
Some in school/some homeschooling
in The Chat Board
Posted
I get it. I'm there right now. My older two boys go to school while the other 4 are home. It's weird, it's different, i'ts good and it's bad all wrapped up into one.
On one hand, yes, they miss out. I'm a different mom and teacher than I was with them-more fun perhaps now that I don't have 3 in diapers. They will never know this side of "teacher mom". They are missing out on the field trips, the indoor waterpark days, the going out to lunch, etc.
On the other hand, they seem to be fine with it. Once in awhile they put up a stink if we do something fun, but my answer is always "its' your choice". They know they can come home anytime. They don't want to-they like, even love, school.
But yes, I've mourned the change. It feels like a big loss. We can't go on random vacations because we are tied to the schedule. But they are happy and I haven't seen the negatives (there are many) quite bad enough to pull them out. So here we are.