What a great topic! 1. Duplos. All 3 of our kids (ages 5 down to 1 1/2) can play happily with Duplos for an extended time. 2. Wooden puzzles. 3. Play food. We don't have a play kitchen, but our kids still get lots of mileage out of play food +teaset + plastic plates + toy skillet. 4. Baby doll, with some doll clothes, doll bottle, etc., if you have a girl. 5. Dress-up stuff.

Ugh! I am having trouble quoting an individual post and responding to it. I was trying to particularly thank Arcadia for the links she sent; they were very helpful. And, thanks so much to all of you for sharing your opinions! It was very helpful to see the broad range of responses. I was concerned that posting this question on the PreK-K sub-forum would mean that it wouldn't get many responses - boy, was I wrong on that;) I appreciate the help!

Thanks for the replies! They were helpful! When I asked about narration, I was actually thinking about oral narration, getting the child to tell you about the passage you just read, hopefully in a complete sentence. Do you work on oral narration in K?

By the end of K/beginning of 1st, what kind of writing output should a kid be doing? Specifically, I'm guessing that it's important for a kid to be able to form upper and lower-case letters correctly. What else? Should a kid be able to write simple (phonetic) words from dictation? How much volume should a child be able to copy in one sitting, like how many short sentences? Do you start working on narration in K, or later? Basically, what writing goals would you have for a kindergartener by the end of the year?

Quote from above: "I think that sometimes overpracticing a skill like math can make it just that-- a skill rather than an area of intellectual challenge, and may even signal to the student that the teacher thinks they need all that extra practice, even after they have learned the material. Math is not some special category of learning that requires more practice than other subjects. If you don't practice history over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over until you are bored to tears, then there is no reason to believe you must practice math to that point either. It's not harder; people just think it is and build it up that way for some reason. yes, some people are better at it than others, but it is not the fearsome beast people make it out to be. It generally does not need to be overdrilled like overcooked lima beans, until it has no flavor left, for the vast majority of students." I disagree with this. My background: My college degree was math (from a large state university) and my part-time college job was math tutoring. I went to high school overseas, in an environment where a national test at the end of high school, over the past 4 years, was what determined whether or not you graduated high school. Result was a LOT of practice and drill and review in high school. I then went to university in the States and did very well in my math classes - partly because I had the lower-level math skills (e.g. working with fractions and long division by hand) down so well that it was easier for me to focus on (and understand) the higher-level math being taught. I love the "overcooked lima beans" simile LOL and I certainly think that one could over-practice math BUT I think that math is an area of learning where over-learning IS important. Specifically, I think students need to practice many skills (hopefully in context, hopefully in interesting ways, etc.) until they are REALLY internalized - and I think that for most students that point will come AFTER the student whines "But I already know how to do this." On the other hand, I do want to provide my kids with a stronger conceptual understanding of math than I got in elementary/junior high/high school math. So I think the OPs question about how to supplement a spiral/incremental, review-heavy program is a great question. It's a question I'm thinking about too. My oldest is a new 5 and we're just beginning Miquon. My plan is to move to CLE next year, use CLE as a base program, and supplement for conceptual understanding (maybe working through Miquon and then doing LOF elementary series??) and I would love more threads on how to SUPPLEMENT for conceptual understanding when a parent plans to use a more "procedural" program for the sake of review and systematic practice.

Mergath, thanks so much for your response. I think you may be the only person who actually answered my question;) Yes, I was talking about "things that looked like a large lizard and could start a legend of dragons". And, so now I'm wondering if I'm convinced by your explanation. I'm wondering if other species of animals alive today that are largish, and intimidating, had instead gone extinct only a few thousand years ago, would we have archeological evidence that they existed at the same time as humans? Have archeologists found rhino bones with knife marks on them, or turned into tools? Have they found humans fossils with crocodile teeth marks on their bones? Have they found hippo and human bones buried together? Anyway, thanks for giving me some new questions to wonder about:)

I have a couple of sincere, not-debate-seeking questions about dinosaurs. But first, I've read enough threads to know I need to start off with some clarifications. 1) I am fully aware that my own scientific education was *lacking*, so no need to act all horrified at me. 2) I am REALLY not trying to start a young-earth/old-earth/evolution debate. Just trying to ask my little questions about dinosaurs. So stick to my questions, pretty please:) OK, so I know that young-earth creationists believe that (land) dinosuars and people were created on the same day, and that dinosaurs were on Noah's ark, so people and dinosaurs existed at the same time. And many YEC folks believe that legends of dragons actually come from old, passed-down memories of dinosaurs. So, dragons (not necessarily all the embellishments like fire-breathing) really were real; they were just the last remnants of dinosaurs that were going extinct. And I know that evolutionists scoff at that idea because dinosaurs supposedly went extinct however many million years ago, so there's no way any humans ever saw any dinosaurs. Question: How come most of the dinosaurs couldn't have died off (say, when a metor hit the earth) but a few (say, a few species) couldn't have survived, and kept adapting, and still been around long enough for people to have seen them? And then those people would have passed on the stories of this great monster they saw, a "dragon". After all, weren't there crocodilian species back in the time of the dinosaurs? And there are still crocodiles and alligators today. So, why couldn't dinosaurs have survived too? Next question: What makes dinosaurs a different class/group of reptiles from other reptiles today? I know I've read something about hip structures, but I didn't get it. Did all of the dinosaurs, from T. Rex to Triceratops to Brachiosaurus, have hips that weren't like lizards, or turtles, or crocodiles? And why isn't a Komodo dragon a "dinosaur" (besides the obvious reason that "it isn't extinct and all dinosaurs died off millions of years ago")? Thanks in advance!

I don't know if you're religious or not, but this comes from my experience growing up as a "missionary kid" in southern Africa. I wonder if you could get some help from missionaries to Uganda, people who have worked to learn the local language? If you go to a church that "does" missions, you could try their mission agency or you could try Africa Inland Mission (inter-denominational) or the International Mission Board (Southern Baptist). You could Google the mission agency's main number, and then call and ask to speak to someone in their East Africa office or whoever would be over Uganda. When you get connected to that department, you could briefly explain your situation and see if they would be willing to connect you with someone in Uganda who could help you. A mission agency might be careful to protect the privacy of their missionaries and be unwilling to give a stranger someone's name or email, but be willing to pass your email address on to someone on the ground. I would specifically ask if someone could help you get a hold of language-learning books (or other resources) that missionaries (or others) use to learn Luganda or get a hold of primary school textbooks for Luganda children. (Sorry! I know the language is Luganda but the people name is probably different, but I don't know the right word!) Also, I think you posted this on the Bilingual board only? You might try cross-posting to the Chat board or General Education board as those seem to have more traffic, and put "Luganda" somewhere in your subject, and see if you get more responses. HTH!

I probably won't be any help, because I don't know anything about working with speech delays. But I'll just say that when my oldest was 3 and I also had a toddler and was pregnant and we were moving, I realized that I was just ignoring my oldest as much as I could. What helped me, and I'm saying this because you said you needed cues, was just to make up a checklist for myself. I typed it on my computer, and printed off a copy each week. Then I would do things whenever it was convenient for me, and check things off as I did them. It helped me remember to give her positive interaction without wondering what on earth I was supposed to do in the midst of that chaos. So, for example, you could have a box for every day to check off things like: Read 2 picture books, Do a fingerplay or sing a song with motions, etc., etc. And boxes to check for art: one craft a week, one play with playdough, two times of coloring, one time to paint/finger paint. That kind of thing. Anyway, it really helped me to think through what I ought to be doing, and then the checkboxes were cues for me.

Oooh, ooooh, can I answer??!! Yesterday we made our 8th international flight with 3 children under the age of 5, in the past 12 months! Not counting a few short domestic flights this year and all the flying before this year... Anyway, some things I haven't seen mentioned yet: - My ears really hurt during descent. Our kids don't seem as sensitive to it as I am, but I always plan for this. I offer babies nursing or a sippy cup, and I give older kids candy that needs to be chewed. Our recent discovery is that Pez dispensers work great for this! Buy each kid a new Pez dispenser, fill it with candy and let them eat it during descent. With any luck, they will also turn them into toys and you'll have entertained kids, with no sticky or melting candy. Then confiscate the dispensers until the descent of the next flight, when you refill them. - I think the hardest part of a long flight is the very end: no electronics, inflight entertainment turned off, no using tray table (to color or whatever), everyone is tired of sitting. I plan for this by having one or two toy options that I save for this time. One good option is silly putty (doesn't need a tray table). - When we start a flight, I don't give out toys until I need to. If kids can be entertained for 30 minutes by playing with their seat belt, looking at the window, looking at the safety card or inflight magazine, etc, great! - Our flights go much smoother when I carefully pack carry-ons for in-flight access. You want most of your carry-ons in the overhead bin instead of taking up your space, but you don't want to be getting up to get stuff out any more than you have to. So, with your kids ages, I would have my middle two wear a backpack (telling them how important their backpacks are for your family and how proud you are that they are big enough to help) and plan to keep those smaller backpacks under the seats in front of you (plural you). Fill with: toys for the flight, sippy cups/water bottles (one for each kid), snacks, coloring stuff, etc. Not just for them but for everyone. I'd have the 7 year old responsible for a larger carry-on (like a rolling suitcase) that I'd plan to put in the overhead bin, and I'd have that contain things I hoped to not have to access, like a change of clothes for everyone but the youngest, and extra diapers. Then I'd have a diaper bag that I planned to keep under the seat in front of me, with things I needed FOR THAT FLIGHT, diapers, wipes, change of clothes for the youngest, toiletries like chapstick, etc. Then during my layover, I'd do any adjusting I needed to, like re-stock the diaper stash in the diaper bag, exchange dirty clothes for clean ones, etc. - I know you said the youngest was in diapers. I don't know how much you trust the pottying skills of the next-youngest, but I would consider pull-ups in light of: 1) we had one kid who was intimidated by the tiny airplane bathroom and especially by its loud flushing and she just refused to go 2) there are lots of times when an urgent potty need is really inconvenient (like being in line for security checks) and 3) hopefully, he/she will fall asleep at some point.... - I have to make sure I get fiber to eat every day, so I appreciate why a pp suggested taking along fruit (I don't mind airplane food, but fresh it is usually not). BUT I really cannot imagine wrangling 4 kids on a flight and keeping fresh fruit from being squished!! What I prefer is packing DRIED fruit (raisins, dried apricots, maybe prunes) and for our most recent 14 hour flight (with a domestic flight and layover before that), I packed a quart-size ziploc bag full of baby carrots and another full of celery sticks. Worked great. Honestly, it sounds like you will be tired at the end, and ready to quit traveling, but it doesn't sound that bad to me! Your kids are all old enough to get their own seat and old enough to understand simple instructions and explanations, but young enough they will probably be really excited and have a great time! Play it up like the big adventure it is:)

How do you teach your kids to respond to other adults? Do you teach them to obey and to answer respectfully? If so, how, exactly, do you do this without running the risk that they will be easily abused some day, and think that they aren't allowed to say "no" to an adult? How do you teach them that they do not have to do something that makes them uncomfortable, or "feels wrong"? Here's where I'm coming from: We live overseas and have become really close with some other expat families. We act more like substitute extended family in some ways. We think these other families are great, and they have similar values to ours. For example, we do house church with a few other families. This involves multiple families having an informal worship time and a shared meal. Another example, we also do a "date night" swap occasionally where one couple keeps our kids and their kids so the other couple can have a date, and then we switch the favor in a week or two. In general, all of the adults, especially the ones hosting, end up sometimes telling other peoples' kids what to do. So far, this has always been fine; the adults are always saying something the kid should listen to. Example from last week: several young kids are playing in the hallway/entry and getting kind of rowdy. My dd age 2 is playing with the curtains and wrapping them around her. I am in the other room, in earshot but not watching. Host mom is the first adult to see this and says, "X! Stop that! Don't play in the curtains!" My dd (being 2) is sloooow to get out of the curtains and I end up getting on to her, " 'Aunt' Y told you not to play in the curtains; you need to obey her!" etc. I don't have ANY problem with the other mom telling my daughter what to do - I like the informality of these friendships, and obviously rowdy little kid pulling on curtains needs to stop ASAP! :) But when these kinds of things come up, I'm not sure exactly what to say to my kids. I do not want to end up teaching a blanket, "When a grown-up tells you what to do, you say, 'Yes, Ma'am/Sir' and you obey!" But what exactly do I want to teach?? I've tried having a few conversations with my older dd (age 4 1/2) about an imaginary child interacting with an imaginary adult without the child's parent around, and I suggested different specific things the adult might say and we talked about how the child should respond. My dd seemed to get that "OK" and compliance was the right thing to do sometimes (e.g. if asked to play more quietly) but that sometimes, "Let me ask my mommy first" would be better and sometimes "No! That's not right! I'm not going to do that!" would be the thing to say. But that's all pretty subjective stuff, and I wonder how to help my kids be better empowered to stand up for themselves, should they (God forbid!) ever be in the horrible situation of having an adult pressure them to do something wrong?? By the way, I am not asking this because I have some gut feeling that there is anything concerning about one of our friends. I am NOT getting any fishy vibes. But I also know that many, many parents have trusted completely someone who hurt their kids... :( Finally, I know this could trigger an emotional response for some, and I'm sorry if this is a painful topic for you. I also hope no one will misunderstand what I'm trying to ask! It was very hard to figure out the wording here!

Hmmm, methinks this is an example of regulations not helping. I assumed that testing was given by someone neutral; I'm having a hard time seeing these parents as ethical people!

I'm so sorry! You must be so upset!! :grouphug: If you don't mind me asking, does your mom have any regulations in her state? Is she being held accountable?

This was an interesting thread about a 20/20 episode about the FLDS and it showed an illiterate 18-year-old. The op of the thread asked, "It seems fairly clear that these kids are neglected educationally, but I find it frustrating that such a small group could end up affecting all of us. I don't want my state "demanding" to see the curriculum I use, but perhaps there needs to be more regulation? What would reasonable regulation look like?" In the (controversial) thread, several people pointed out reasons why this example shouldn't be cause for more regulation. (Short version: apparently Utah already has some homeschool laws, child-labor laws were being broken anyway, and some FLDS kids are actually in a private school and not homeschooled.) I agree that the FLDS is a weird (and deeply disturbing) case, and that we don't know the whole story behind this illiterate young man anyway, so I really do NOT want to keep talking about this particular example. BUT I thought the original question was really interesting. In real life, I don't know any homeschoolers who are neglecting their kids by failing to provide a good education. However, I don't think I know a representative cross-section of homeschoolers and most of my friends are moms of little kids. (Actually, I tend to be around moms who are on the other end of the spectrum e.g. worrying about their two-year-old not knowing very many letters yet.) So, here's my question: If you know IN REAL LIFE of homeschoolers who are educationally neglecting their kids, would having regulation in place (or more regulation or different regulation or actually enforced regulation) have helped those kids?? Or not?? ETA: If you have REAL LIFE experience in both a high-regulation and low-regulation state, do you see regulation preventing educational neglect or raising the academic standard? Please don't talk about parents' rights (which I believe in!) or cases of public schools educationally neglecting kids (which I'm sure we could all give examples of!) or any other side-topic, pretty please?

Yes, I believe the story of the tower of Babel actually happened. And I remember how fascinated I was taking Intro to Linguistics at my (secular) state university and learning about language families and realizing that God created the different stem languages (like proto-Indo-European) and then they evolved from there. Some linguists actually think that language evolved separately in more than one place because some language families are so very different. Those of us who believe in creation aren't stuck with that highly unlikely theory:) It was also fascinating to learn that the grammar of languages tends to simplify with time; for example, Classical Greek had five cases, Koine Greek four cases and modern Greek three cases. Another example is the grammar of Latin as compared with French or Spanish - which is part of why so many classical educators want their kids studying the grammar of Latin. I loved that linguistics course enough to consider switching out of my science major! But, now I get the best of both worlds since, as an adult, I get the privilege of living overseas in a town where the two main languages spoken are from different families (one Altaic and one Indo-European) and it's amazing how different their grammar and syntax is! I've loved learning to speak both:)

Stepping Heavenward: Personally I would not give this to an 11-yr-old; I think an older girl (like mid-teens to adult) would get more out of it. It's supposed to be a journal, and it starts with the main character turning 16. Great book though!! I think Pilgrim's Progress is a great idea! My ideas: What about a biography? Maybe: - A Chance to Die: The Life and Legacy of Amy Carmichael by Elliot - Through Gates of Splendor (about Jim Elliot) - The Hiding Place (by Corrie Ten Boom) What about Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis? or The Screwtape Letters? I know I read both of those in my early teens and got a lot out of them (although I got more out of reading them again as an adult!) What about Desiring God by Piper? What about an apologetics book? I read (most of) Evidence that Demands a Verdict by McDowell at about that age, and it was VERY helpful to me. Or A Ready Defense also by McDowell. Or The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel.

Civilian.

My husband and I live overseas, but we are both from the United States. We go back to the States every few years for several months at a time, for "furlough". Do we need to keep up with homeschool requirements for the state that we are from? Details: Our oldest is 4, so this isn't urgent, just trying to plan for the future. I'm from Texas (practically no homeschool "hoops") but my husband is from Florida (basically, homeschoolers need to submit a letter of intent, keep a portfolio for 2 years, and get either a Florida certified teacher to sign off on their portfolio yearly or get standardized testing done yearly). Florida is technically our home state: my in-laws' home is our permanent address, that is where we are registered to vote, and that is where our drivers' licenses are from. For federal income tax purposes, however, we are residents overseas most of the time. When we are back in the States for furlough, probably for 9-12 months, we will most likely be living in FL and only making visits to TX (and elsewhere). So, if we are overseas for all of a school year, I can't see why we would need to keep up with Florida homeschool laws, right??? And if we happened to do a short vacation to the States to see family, it still shouldn't matter for that year, right? (Think one or two weeks in TX and then one or two weeks in FL.) What if we are back in the States for, say, 6 months of a school year? Then we would need to meet FL requirements. But what if "they" asked what we had been doing previously? Would we just show documentation that we had been overseas (like our stamped passports)? Advice???

Hi! We are just beginning our homeschool journey with our older four-year-old starting MFW K soon. As I've researched curriculum, and thought about what direction we want to head in the years to come, I've had way too much fun reading these boards! :001_smile: I'm not making decisions now; I'm just researching, partially because I have time to do so right now and partially because it's fun for me! I'm especially curious about math, mostly because my undergrad degree was in math. So far I'm leaning towards CLE for math, starting when DD1 is in 1st grade. I like that it's open-and-go, like that it's independent after the early grades, like that it schedules practicing math facts, like that it's spiral, etc. But it's also really important to me that our kids build a solid and rich math foundation. I've read threads with people arguing over whether CLE teaches concepts or only procedures - I'm not wanting to discuss that again. What I want to know is: if a family used CLE for their main math curriculum, how could they supplement so that their dc got conceptual understanding reinforced?? For what it's worth, I'm looking for streamlined and (relatively) easy to implement: we live in a third-world country and have three kids close in age, and hope to have more someday. For example, would it work to have each kid working on their own level of CLE, but combine two kids two grades apart for Miquon or LoF?? Other ideas??