ErinE
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Posts posted by ErinE
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"Yes... but..." "Yes... but..." The posts are only variations on this theme. Go back and read them. I tried to multiquote and discovered there's a limit to the forum's ability to do so.
The position all boils down to: "Yes Nassar is horrible, but the judge is a miserable failure, her actions were unacceptable, she deserves to lose her position and her career."
All the posts are a variation on "Yes... but..."
I've said that the judge's words were wrong. Others have done the same. The continued posts have forced me to come around to the idea that fundamentally, this is why abusers continue. It's because people deflect from the real issue. It's to use a poster's own words, disappointing, though that word doesn't begin to capture the feeling that dwells in my heart and throttles the words I wish to pour out from my throat.
Not a single post without a single histrionic "yes... but..." Go back and read the posts. All of them. As someone who witnessed a truly brave person stand against family, people that proclaimed love and still turned a blind eye to evil, I say it's not bravery to lecture a group of women on an Internet forum about mobs. I know someone who stood against a mob mentality. That was someone who deserves praise, even if no charges were ever filed against the child molester.
Rachel Denhollander. She stood against a mob. Simone Biles. Aly Raisman. The many, many woman whose names filled the front page of the Detroit Free Press. Those women praised this judge. And a poster dares to come here and chastise women for praising the judge. Dares to state disappointment in them. Like some disapproving dad chiding an errant child.
I had a father. And however awful he was in many other ways, he stood with his children when they said they wouldn't accept an abuser's presence in their lives. He didn't proclaim his disappointment because he focused on what was right, and good, and true. He was an advocate for children and girls and women. He didn't deflect. And he never told me or my siblings, "Yes... but..."
People have agreed the judge's words were wrong. People have disagreed with that interpretation. The point has been made.
Stop.
STOP.
S.T.O.P.
If you don't stop, you are not an advocate for children or girls or women. You aren't defending civilization,.you're obstructing an important conversation. Put down your sword and shield, white knight. Forty posts ago, you became the problem. You became the deflection. You became the diversion from the harm done to 150+ women, the silence of thirty years, the willful blindness of multiple organizations.
Focus on the "yes" not the "but".
The thread title is focused on the "yes". A thread was created for the "but" and you chose to ignore it and then... and then... gaslighted the women here. Daring to tell them that they made the judge the focus of this thread, not you.
I keep asking myself why I'm so bothered by the bizarre turn this thread has taken and I realized today why. I've heard thirty years of "yes... but..." coincidentally as long as Nassar has been abusing children. I had someone say to my face, someone I love, "yes... but..." I was disgusted then and find it gross now. I can't believe it continues.
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Some of us have to live with knowing that the person who hurt us is a very loved member of our own family. It's all difficult. I don't know if I'm making sense but it's just hard.
I support you. I stand with you. You make complete sense to me. It's lonely, in a way that cannot be articulated in mere words. You are not alone.
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I used to like carbs for breakfast, but now it’s coffee and as I wake up, I add in a little protein like eggs or bacon
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Deadspin can be sensationalist, but this article is dead on...
“What Nassar’s Victims Wanted Us to Knowâ€
https://deadspin.com/what-larry-nassars-victims-wanted-us-to-know-1822376055
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This is how he always acts/posts/responds.
This is one of the few times that the vast majority of people disagree with him.
I’ve agreed (I think others have as well) that the judge’s words should have been phrased differently. I don’t agree with the continued posts about the judge. Having witnessed firsthand how people deflect from incidents of abuse and try to silence its survivors, I strongly feel it’s detracting from a serious discussion on how to prevent child molestors and sexual abusers. I don’t understand why a self-confessed advocate for women won’t listen to the many women here asking for the posts to go elsewhere.
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Is this Bill person a troll?
:lol: :lol: The HIVE troll hunters vetted him many years ago. Why or how, I'm not sure but you are not alone in that thought :laugh:
Bill is not a troll. He’s been here for a long time.
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The bolded is a nothing but flat-out falsehood.
In the over 100 posts before you joined this thread, 3 were in support of the judge, 2 others expressed concern that the judge's words might lead to an appeal. The rest had very little to say about the judge herself. Over 90% of the posts focused on the victims, the inaction of the various organizations involved, and various concerns and anecdotes that had nothing to do with the judge.
YOU made a post that, at this point, I'm inclined to believe was intended to be inflammatory and disruptive.
By the time you made your post, I had already started another thread on the judge and received several responses.
YOU are at fault here. You are entitled to your opinions, and you made your point, but you refuse to accept that others, many others, disagree with you. This continued, incessant need to keep the focus on your own hang-up with the judge is what is shameful.
Wow. I've heard of gaslighting, but I've never seen it on a thread. I'm floored.
Eta: Not you, Aura.
I feel like the posts are focused on the speck in society’s eye as opposed to the log.
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I generally prefer female gyns - but many of the male ones I've gone to have started having their cna in the room with them during an internal exam.
I’ve had both male and female and over the past ten years, there’s always been someone in the room with us for exams.
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She did her job. I don't think she owes anyone an apology, let alone a resignation.
Thank you.
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Nvm. I was too hasty in my response.
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News articles about Rachel Denhollander for those interested.
IndyStar which wrote a powerful article about s*xual abuse in gymnastics: "Rachael Denhollander's Brave Journey"
Read her full impact statement
CNN: "How the IndyStar and Rachel Denhollander took down Larry Nassar"
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I don't agree with the way Aquilina phrased her thoughts. That doesn't mean I'm disappointed with people who feel different. More people I'm not disappointed in:
Aly Raisman: "To Judge Aquilina, thank you from the bottom of my heart. For your leadership, your professionalism, your compassion, and your commitment to allow each and every one of us survivors the opportunity to share our impact statements in open court was extremely important and meaningful."
Simone Biles: "To Judge Aquilina, thank you, you are my hero."
Jordyn Wieber: "Thank you to Judge Aquilina."
Jacob Denhollander (husband to the awesome, brave Rachel Denhollander): retweet "Judge Rosemarie Aquilina is my hero"
Just to remind those here, who focus on other things, the names of the survivors.
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Well, and how easy is it to flat out say the stuff he did?
I listened to that one long testimony, and every time she said 'penetrated' I was kind of in awe.
How many kids would have been able to say that and stick to it? Especially after being seriously gaslit and also while pretty much this guy was the 'good cop' of the organization?
I’m really proud of all these women. I can’t imagine their feelings as they testified
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And some of those MSU doctors even admitted that they were close friends of Nassar. Plus the other doctors said that they generally performed the procedures in question "over the clothing" — which suggests that they were not told that vaginal penetration was part of Nassar's "treatment," since that's not something you can do over someone's clothing!
I suspect the same. I wonder if they were told who the doctor was and the full details of the procedure. That’s why he was cleared in 2014(?). Other doctors claimed his actions were within normal bounds.
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And The Lansing State Journal has just posted an article with the statement Amanda Thomashow (she reported the assault but was informed that she simply didn't get the difference between assault and treatment) received from MSU vs. the one that MSU circulated internally. Ugh.
Thanks for posting the article. Interesting that they recognized the procedures needed to be changed. I wonder if they made any changes.
I read in one of the articles that they didn’t ask any doctors not affiliated with MSU whether Nassar’s actions were standard practice.
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I came to a thread where people are cheering on the judge, saying they "love her," and are making excuses for inexcusable comments, and when I raise my objections to this I am called a troll and personally smeared. As if I in anyway condone Larry Nasser.
Sometimes the mask slips and we see by what a tenuous thread civilization dangles.
I'm very disappointed in many of you today.
Bill
A tenuous thread indeed that multiple people and organizations could cover up the abuse of children over decades. Because that's what this is about - an abusive man and the many people who covered up his misdeeds. What sort of civilization do we live in? I wonder. I'm disappointed as well.
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Bill
Some have agreed with you. Others disagree with your interpretation of the judge's words. But to come into a thread about a man abusing 150 girls over 30 years, the national organizations that covered it up, the people who protected him, the victims who really were silenced in real life, not on an Internet forum. To make it all about the judge's words - it's bizarre.
Seventeen comments, Bill. Possibly more, all of which say the same thing using different words. You've made your point. Maybe take a step back and let other concerns be expressed.
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It's been awhile since I had one of those conversations. I like having a book with me so I've got something to fill time while waiting, but all too often when someone asks what I'm reading it is just a polite question, and my answer usually shuts the conversation right down! I'm never reading the latest bestsellers but something a little weird. "Why, it's a memoir about the 9 months the author spent as a gardening intern in Kyoto." Or, "War and Peace. No, really! I'm reading it for fun and really like it!" They smile politely and change the subject. :laugh:
Mine was Murakami Kafka on the Shore.
Me: "It's magical realism, translated from Japanese, kinda philosophical."
Tech: "Oh."
*Silence*
Me, tentatively: "What books do you like to read? I'm always looking for more authors."
The ensuing conversation from my end: "I like that author! If you liked that you should read this. Have you read this? You have to read it! What about this? You should read that, too!"
The other tech jumped in and we talked Pierce Brown (Red Rising Saga in his words, Game of Thrones meets Hunger Games in outer space).
A few customers were standing around and I realized I should probably leave as I was distracting them from their jobs. Still, it was nice to meet fellow bibliophiles in real life.
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I'd just like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that the "ignore" function on this forum works wonderfully against pot-stirring trolls.
I really can't believe the amount of vitriol directed towards the judge instead of the defendant. That of all the things discussed in this thread - her words are what civilization rests on. Not the decades long egregious abuse, not the silencing and gaslighting of victims, not the cover-up in multiple large organizations. A judge expressing her thoughts and feelings toward a defendant who plead guilty, had no remorse for his actions, and blamed his victims because "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned".
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I agree the judge should have been more judicious in her comments, more diplomatic, more rational. How about we agree that after everyone who participated in the cover-up, everyone who allowed Nasser access to girls, everyone who told girls to apologize for their allegations, once all those people are fired, disbarred, censured, removed from office, lost their license, whatever then we can discuss the judge's consequences. I think a brief talking-to is enough. Ruining a judge's career because she was harsh towards the defendant before her, who was unrepentant of the heinous crimes to which he plead guilty, is why people fear speaking up.
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Yeah really. I’m already modifying my content to include “... and If a doctor is touching you and you don’t like it or want him to stop, TELL MOMMY RIGHT AWAY. Even the doctor doesn’t have a right to touch your body if you don’t want him to. Only you.â€
Add it to the long list of crap I wish I didn’t have to say :(
I've noticed that pediatricians, in two different offices, tell our children to never allow someone to touch them in an area they don't want to be touched and to tell a parent if they don't feel comfortable, even if it's a doctor. I appreciate these doctors reinforcing what I say to my kids.
All the doctors have said something along the lines of "I'm only touching you here because I need to check to make sure everything is okay and your mother is right here. Let me know if you want me to stop. Never be afraid to tell your parent if someone touches you in a way you don't like."
It didn't stop Nasser from preying on girls as it seems he abused some in the presence of their parents, but I think such conversations can help. Kyle Stephens' testimony about her father truly broke my heart.
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Congratulations! She is gorgeous, well suited for her name!
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I brought a phone to the Apple store to get an issue fixed and ended up chatting with the two techs about books. The possibility of finding other book lovers is one of the many reasons I haul around a physical book. I’d read most everything they talked about, but was able to offer them a few suggestions. One mentioned he liked reading Robert J. Sawyer (“Michael Crichton, but with aliensâ€). Has anyone read his books?
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Larry Nassar
in The Chat Board
Posted
No "Yes..." this time
Only "But..."
You are part of the problem