4wildberrys
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Posts posted by 4wildberrys
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So sorry :grouphug:
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I don't think that sending an 18 year old to college, when the college looks to mom and dad for financial support until a student is married or in their mid twenties is quite like being an adult.
When I was a totally self-supporting adult, I had to show up at work on time; work until the work was done; pay for gas, insurance, rent; buy and cook my own food; and advocate for myself with apartment manager, utilities, and employer.
I don't think that it's debilitating to look at someone who had not had these sort of experiences and saying that a year of work and maturing is a good thing. Most of the descriptions of gap years that I've heard seem to entail work, getting oneself to and from work without mom's car, and often living away from home. I'd say that these are just the sort of things that do require adult responses.
I can't say if my kids would do a gap year or not. I went directly into a military academy at 18. I was pretty much on my own to sink or swim. On the other hand, I'd been an exchange student overseas the summer before and had traveled out of state for sports camps.
I think you need to look at the individual student and what their goals are and what they will most get out of the different options.
To say that if someone has a good foundation, they won't falter, makes it sound like anyone who falters just didn't have a good enough foundation. I don't think this is necessarily the case.
:iagree: :iagree:
We held dd back a year for various reasons and at the time she was NOT happy about it! She had to watch her only very good homeschool friend graduate and leave for college while she was 'stuck' here in our small town with no friends and feeling left out. Fast forward a year later----she was SO happy we knew better than her and told us so! She watched her friend get into the party scene and become swayed by the ultra liberal atmosphere at most colleges, much to the dismay and shock of dd. this girl had a wonderful foundation! Fast forward 2 years----dd had enough time to mature and really find out what she wanted to do, and so is working to pay her way through school, in her own apartment away from us. She is responsible ( well, 99%) for herself and her bills etc. she does not drink or party and neither does her boyfriend. She is quite mature and VERY responsible. Her friend, who does live in the same town, still lives a very dependent existence, not cooking for herself, not paying any bills for herself and more into the college party scene than ever. She works unskilled summer jobs as if she is still in high school. But she does make Deans List every year :tongue_smilie: So my new take on college---and certainly how dd sees it-----an extended adolescence for too many.
I think a gap year or extra year at home in high school can be very necessary for some kids and has nothing to do with sheltering or holding them back from growing up. I think many colleges today take the cake for preventing the kids from truly growing up anyways :001_huh: if you feel like your dd would benefit from another year at home, then by all means do it.
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This is an interesting thread because I have banging my head on the wall for the past couple of weeks related to a math dilemma with my dd. She is struggling so much right now to transition to prealgebra and algebra concepts. It just seems like she is not ready for it. We were going over exponents and that completely fried her brain. She understands the concepts, but just gets in a hurry and multiplies wrong. I also think she is having trouble recalling pretty much everything in math we did this past year, fractions, decimals, percents, boy do I feel like a failure. I tried Derek Owens prealgebra, but she just did not click with his video lessons. So, then I went to using Chalkdust's Basic Math textbook so we could review concepts, but that is when we discovered her difficulties with exponents. So, today I have been trying to decide what to do. I have a local homeschool convention coming up this weekend so will probably look at MathUSee while I am there. I never thought I would use MUS, but I can see where she needs more practice problems, a different unique way of presenting the concepts, and MUS just might be the right fit. I am seriously thinking of taking her back to Epsilon level or even lower so I can have her review everything. In some ways it feels like a step backwards, but I don't want her to move forward without having a clear understanding of math even if she never ends up in a math oriented career (she is a pretty artsy girl).
I also really like the look of Algebra Fresh Approach, but my dd is not ready for the pace of it yet, she needs a lot more review and prealgebra concepts before moving into that series. I wish they made a prealgebra book.
If worse comes to worse, I will put my dd in prealgebra in 9th grade so she has more time to understand everything or possibly stretch out Algebra 1 over two years starting in 9th.
Great idea to look at MUS in person. I relate to your fears of putting your dd in a lower level of math than she 'should' be in. But I will just say that I had Epsilon in hand when my dd was in 8th, and decided against it for the same reasons you are stating. I felt she should be in Prealgebra, even though now I realize she didn't have the bases covered yet. So I sent the MUS back and put her in a Prealgebra program the she struggled in, and then an algebra program she struggled in and on and on :001_huh: It would have been so nice if I was as wise as I am now back then, because so much time and money and struggle would ave been saved for us. :glare: Homeschool allows us to work our children on THEIR level, not on society's 'supposed to be' level.
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Both dc are liberal arts based. Things went much better using BJU for my youngest. There is a different format for 7th and 8th grades. The BJU Prealgebra book worked well for dd, then she went to BJU Algebra 1 and we started using their dvds Algebra 1 on. Ds (older) used BJU Algebra 2 after being over his head with Chalkdust, and it was a breath of fresh air. Lessons every day, tons of instruction and going over problems, and a reasonable workload. Do figure out which format works best for your dd, the concepts in order, working on one thing at a time, or the spiral approach. Spiral was a disaster over here.
For me, the key was finding a format and level of difficulty that worked and sticking with it. I see what Lisa is saying, but you can't go too hard with math, or your dc will forever say they are not good at math (and will hate it). Better to go easy and have them able to do it and with confidence. More will be remembered. You can always retake in college at a harder level if it is needed. Sometimes artsy kids never get that good at math, or they are late bloomers with it.
:iagree: Very well said!
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I 3rd the suggestion for MUS! It was the ONLY program that allowed dd to actually get through Algebra and Geometry---Alg 2 was NOT going to happen! My biggest regret also,is not sticking with MUS with her, as we used the original Foundations and Intermediate and she was doing GREAT! I then figured she was ready for something more rigorous, so we switched to Saxon, which ruined, ruined her love for math and sent us into s spiral for close to 3 years. She began MUS Prealgebra midway through 10th, and was finally able to comprehend and finish Alg 1 and Geometry.
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Let's see, yes, the notes have all the comments about slavery. The other resources in Core 100 do not go down the road. I want to clarify and say that I did not state that SL condones slavery, far from it. They do present both sides, but I feel that they go over the top in trying to portray that some slaves indeed loved their masters and their lives. I do understand that some slaves felt that they were indeed rescued from living pagan lives in Africa (Phillis Wheatley comes to mind), but then there were those such as Amos Fortune. He wanted to be free, but that did not come until he was too old to enjoy it.
And the name of the war is a minor issue. I also found where he calls it, America's Great War. I think that is much better than any of the terms I've heard. And yes, the North was just as racist as the South, they just didn't need slaves to work in the steel factories!
I totally understand that SL gives both sides so that the student can make up his or her own mind, BUT sometimes there is a lopsided amount of Mr. H's way of thinking to achieve a balanced approach (to counter the lopsided approach in regular textbooks). Mr. H is the first to say that he doesn't want to push his agenda, so I know he gets there is a danger there of this happening. And as long as the teacher recognizes the issues, then it can be an interesting journey.
I still might use Core 100 again with my dd; it's her last go with American history and I wouldn't want it to be boring. ;)
We'll be using 100 again with the new IG so I guess I'll get to read all of these notes finally ;). And yes, it's anything but boring!
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seeing you mention that issue my brain remembered it was the catholic issue that the mfw person told me at their convention about the other books from bju that they didn't want to use... and I'll get in a lot of trouble on this part, but one of them from mfw at convention was saying he was nervous that 4th edition of the book mfw uses needed to be previewed before mfw kept selling it, but big sigh of relief, no anti catholic was put in that specific book.
-crystal
Yep---no indictment for MFW on this issue whatsoever! We used Ancient History and thoroughly enjoyed it with no theological problems ;)
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I am in the process of trying to decide what to use next year for American history. My son did Core 100 a few years ago and frankly, I had a hard time swallowing all of SL's comments on slavery and how many slaves really loved being slaves. Like my dd said to me yesterday, 'it's like a tiger in the zoo....sure he loves the free hand-outs, but he doesn't know any better. And the tiger doesn't have to work for his hand-outs either'. So, your comment about SL telling the truth of slavery, well, maybe I just didn't get what Mr. Holzmann was saying. I know he doesn't condone slavery....but then says it's allowed in the Bible....and then says that many slaveholders were cruel....but there were plenty that were kind too. I understand that not all were cruel, but to own a person is just wrong to the very core of my being.
In addition, Mr. H renames The Civil War as The War for Southern Independence, and then goes on to tell the student to make up his own mind about Lincoln (after dragging Lincoln's name through the mud consistently throughout all the notes), well, it just doesn't work well that way.
I need to go to bed, but wanted to give my thoughts on this. Thanks for listening.
Well honestly, we never used the notes for 100 so I guess I might have missed a few things? :001_huh: The History of Us books didn't paint that picture and neither did any of the historical literature. In fact, we didn't start using any of the notes until 400 with the easier to use upgraded IGs, and I don't recall any sort of condonement of slavery. As far as renaming the Civil War---I do tend to agree as it wasn't simply Northern outrage of slavery, as the North was largely as racist as the South. mr. Holzmann is right that it's a bit more complicated as the typical history textbook portrays. SL just gives SO much more information to allow one to make up ones OWN mind with so many different sources and viewpoints to read from as compared to simply one text ;)
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Praying for her and her family, especially since we dealt with the same type of condition with my dad 6 years ago. She is such a kind and helpful mom!
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Thanks for responding. Let me be clear, I am aware of the IR dating issue that BJU was guilty of but I am not referring to that.
I am specifically referring to the way that slavery is covered in their texts.
I am not trying to offend anyone, just looking for some other options for curriculum.
I am also not saying MFW would intentionally try to harm anyone with their text choices.
As an AA parent I can assure that most textbooks do not tell the truth about slavery. I just want to be sure that the texts my children use not only depict the truth but that the facts come from a neutral perspective.
As far as saying Sonlight Core 400 is "no good" I don't know this for sure. I am restating what others on the forum have already said. I was asking for opinions and help.
Sorry if I was misunderstood and thanks so much for answering/helping.:001_smile:
As a Catholic, I won't use BJu either as they are very anti-Catholic with no attempt at hiding it. Have you looked at Notgrass's Exprloring America program? SL 300 is a GREAT program! It was honestly one of our favorites. I do suggest trying to find a used copy of the older history spine 20th Century Day by Day though, as it is much better than their current spine. Have you used Core 100? Again, one of our favorites and our dd used it in 10th. The Core 400 is a VERY challenging core, but the nice thing about it is that it presents history clearly---warts and all---and in a very even handed manner. We did not care for the Bible books or the Carson Govt book, but the rest of the history titles were top notch. I am a very BIG fan of SL at the high school level because of the challenging history titles that really cause kids (and adults) to challenge and question the traditional stories of Am history that perhaps are not the full truth. SL most definitely tells the truth not only of slavery, but of race relations since then. It's been cringeworthy at times.
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I'm still struggling with finding a health curriculum and/or book(s) I like. I know what I don't want:
1. a biology class. We already did A/P. I don't want to repeat it. A brief refresher would be fine. It would be great in a health oriented way, just not a biology class.
2. books that spend chapters talking about necessity for taking a shower, brushing teeth and brushing hair. We got that down a few years ago.....
3. make up how to book. We have checked out several books from the library and have gone to make up/skin care classes already
4. how to dress. I do not want an out of date book talking about how to select clothing based on body type or worse, talking about how girls should only wear dresses and never, ever consider bathing suits.
What I do want:
1. health!!!! What are communicable diseases, how to avoid and prevent illness, when to see a doctor, etc.
2. proper nutrition and exercise
3. first aid
4. disaster preparedness (hurricanes, tornadoes, wild fires, etc)
5. basic personal safety including household safety, fire prevention, food safety, etc.
Does this exist? We have Total Health and it is an okay spine, but it is not quite what I want. I don't want something like Abeka either. Yes, I read the thread comparing the 2 curriculums. I even responded to that one. I do have a bunch of books to suppliment Total Health. I'm just getting bogged down creating my own program.
Can anyone recommend titles??
Lifepac high school health program! I believe there is one Lifepac in the bunch that talks about mental health, but the rest cover pretty much everything you are looking for.
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I have a MUS question-dd12, rising 7th grader, has done CLE math grades 1-6. She can do the formulas perfectly but has no conceptual understanding at ALL. She just barely tolerates math but is very bright (prbly gifted) in other subjects.
A df gave me some MUS dvds (only up to Zeta) and all the manipulatives, so dd and I looked at the online samples today and she really loved it (!) and lightbulbs were going on for her like crazy. The way he explained decimals, she said she did understand decimals, but it took her two yrs in CLE to piece together for herself how fractions/decimals were related, and why didn't they just explain it in five minutes like he did?! I am NOT mathy and basically learned math in a very formulaic way like CLE does it, so I'm no help!
So here is my thought-have her just WATCH the Epsilon (fractions) and Zeta (decimals) dvds that I have here over this summer. She knows all this material; I just think it will give her the conceptual WHY behind what she's been doing in CLE. Then over the next full yr (Sept-Aug) have her do the MUS Pre-Alg and Alg. I don't want to skip their Pre-Alg because I think she can use the slower pace and foundation. So the MUS Pre-Alg and Alg would basically be her Pre-Alg. (I might have her continue doing selected problems out of CLE7 too because it is VERY spiral, which she needs for retention and basic arithmetic practice, which she definitely still needs. This would prbly only take her about 20 min/day. I have allotted plenty of math time in our schedule over the next yr-it will be our priority-firming up basic arithmetic and giving her the lacking conceptual.)
Then in Fall 2013 for 8th grade, she'd do another good Algebra course either at home or we may be putting her in a private school where she'd then do a good Algebra program (and then continue from there.)
She will never be a math major, but she may possibly be interested in the health field (physical therapy, nurse, chiropractor?) and she is interested in science but who knows if that would be where she ends up. At any rate, I don't want to sell her short, but I don't want to overwhelm her either. I would like to have her ready for Algebra by 8th grade because it is pretty sure about the private school.
For reference, CLE considers both 7 and 8 to be pre-alg but on these boards I see most people just do 7 and then go into algebra. So I think she is at the point of doing pre-alg IF she also continues getting plenty of basic arithmetic practice too. MUS seems like a good compromise for our needs (along with CLE7). What do you think about this progression?
Other options I considered were the CLE7 for the spiral with some LOF and Hands-On Equations alongside for the conceptual, but I think MUS really clicks for her for conceptual; could firm things up for her conceptually before moving on to Algebra, AND yet would still be a more robust and true Pre-Algebra than the other combo I was considering.
Thanks so much if you read through this and have any thoughts!
cross-post
We have used and loved MUS now for quite a few years. First of all, if your dd is not going to be a math major, why push her through Prealg AND Alg in one year? Especially if you say she has no conceptual understanding. My suggestion is to start with the MUS Prealg and see how she does. If she is happy, I wouldn't push it too hard. Then she can tackle the Alg 1 in 8th. If you continue with the MUS sequence, it is very good math and sufficient, even if it doesn't move as fast as some other programs mentioned here. MUS takes more time to teach understanding and true mastery over sheer volume. My son is in 10th and started MUS in 7th with Prealg, with Alg 1 following in 8th. He is truly enjoying, but still being challenged, by MUS Alg 2. We do supplement with Life of Fred because it adds a different take on the math, with much more application to real life. My experience with pushing math too much, too early is massive burnout. If your dd is doing well with MUS, why switch? And doing MUS Prealg, Alg 1 AND CLE all at once sounds like too much. Maybe your CLE alongside Prealg in 7th and Alg in 8th? DS used Hands on Equations in 6th and LOVED it. Kids can manipulate algebraic equations at a young age, but the true abstract understanding of what they are doing and why truly comes with maturity ;)
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They're both good, solid programs, but which one you use depends on what you need the program to do. IEW will have more hand holding and explicit instructions for each writing assignment. PTIW assumes a certain level of proficiency and covers some mechanics but focuses more on different types of writing assignments rather than on how to actually write in the first place. We used PTIW briefly this year, but I came back to IEW because ds and I needed more 'how to' instructions.
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They're actually great reads! VERY doable, especially the Fagles translations. Now if those books were for a student, my opinion would change to 'yuck' :tongue_smilie: I enjoyed my sons 9 th grade year reading some of those titles MUCH more than he did----something I was not expecting. Happy reading ;)
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I think that misses the mark. One should be special to one's family and community. One may not be so important to the rest of the world, but what's the point in talking like this? I doubt this speech will cause any great moments of self-realization.
But hopefully this message did reach some kids. I wish to God I had heard someone say something like this to my class when we graduated from our spoiled, pampered rich kid school---it would have made my life SO much easier for the first 10 years after graduating! :001_huh: I canNOT stand looking at my alumni magazine that always has bragging articles about the few rich kids that went on and became richer and successful (with that trust fund being über helpful mind you) because I am one of those 'special' students who did nothing but get married and have a couple of kids that I homeschooled. Nothing worth mentioning at any reunion or in an alumni catalog, making me feel like I am a 'loser' because I didn't make a lot of money in a successful international career and I certainly didn't marry a rich man who could pay for my,kids to attend that exclusive school. Stupid---because success is not just about money and public achievements :glare:
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Just to provide an alternate view about doing the study with your students just using the first edition TE (which has ALL the student workbook material) aloud...
We DID do the *entire* study aloud together (with 2 students), including all the reading, the 12 additional units, the chapter notes and discussion questions. Doing the program together from just TE also enabled us to springboard into even more depth with our own questions, comparisons, etc.; to explore bunny trails of interest; to skim past what was obviously already understood by DSs, and to do vocabulary work in context in the moment, which is where vocabulary is most solidly learned. Best of all, it enabled us to discuss other themes and issues unrelated to the program, but that were triggered by the book or the discussion questions -- that would not have happened if we weren't experiencing the program together.
As with most curriculum and schooling, it all comes down to balancing how much time do you have and what method of learning works best for the student. :) BEST of luck! Warmly, Lori D.
:iagree: with your last comment 100%!
We do the program together too, discussing everything etc. You don't have to forego that if your student uses the workbook, but for us it's made it more convenient to be 'on the same page' because my son would zone out if it was just me narrating the rest of the program :tongue_smilie: Workbooks and filling in blanks, answering qiestions in writing, looking up vocab definitions aren't all 'bad' and don't necessarily stifle deeper intellectual discussions or bunny trails....
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We are using 1st edition with the recommended book, TE and student book and ds loves it! I can't imagine not using the student notebook because it allows the student to really delve into what they just read, study the vocab and then analyze their reading with the study questions. Using it simply orally with 2 students would require an immense amount of time on your part and give more of a survey course than the in depth study it is meant to be. Using the book that goes with the study allows for quick reference, as the pages line up exactly with the questions, and so again it Might get very frustrating to use any version of the book and then scramble to find answers. The extra Unit studies are great too, so again your student might not get so much out of it if you simply use the TE and do it all orally. It's only a $40 difference between 1st and 2nd edition, but why not stick with the 1st edition since you have a portion of it already! This is a VERY beefy program no matter which edition you choose ;)
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I signed ds up for a Landry Academy 2 day chemistry lab intensive!! I'm so excited because we have NEVER done any group homeschool classes or gatherings with him at all (nothing here at all...no high school homeschoolers)--and he has homeschooled from the beginning. Granted, we will be driving about 375 miles one way, but for us it will be worth it for so many reasons ;)
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This is an often discussed topic and I read every thread that I catch when it comes up. The vast majority of the time, the feedback can be broken down into the following:
1. I used MUS all the way through and my students did fine/well/great when they took SAT/ACT or college math courses. I'm so glad we stuck with it.
2. I decided that MUS wasn't enough and I switched to A, B, or C.
Interestingly enough, I've only very rarely seen messages like the following:
3. We used MUS in high school and really wish we had used something else. My students did poorly on college testing or college math courses.
Personally, we do use MUS and plan to continue through high school. DH and I both have technical degrees and expect similar for our DC.
Pegasus
:iagree:Love, love MUS. Did the switching thing with my oldest two. Sticking with this all the way through. We are looking at LOF this summer as a review for MUS Algebra 1. That is more challenging? Give me a break!
:iagree::iagree: We are using MUS through Calc too----love it!! We use LOF as a supplement because it's interesting and give more explanations for the 'whys' of math. But I don't think it's more challenging at all, and neither does my son. We are absolutely loving the MUS Alg2 program this year!
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If I let my son pick his electives.......he would pick...nothing! :glare: Seriously. I have let him pick electives before, like French. And then he complained the ENTIRE year!!!! I had to keep reminding him I spent a fortune on the program because HE wanted to do it, not me. So now I pick his electives, within reason of course. I only pick things that I know will be useful in later years. ;)
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Not the last time I talked to them. They assume most homeschoolers will use a CC to tackle this subject. They don't factor in how many of us have no CC close by....:glare:
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MUS is work text. Ds is now in Alg2 and we plan to use it through Calc---we love it and also love there is no recopying of problems involved ;)
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I feel for you! BTDT with my dd, and Saxon had the exact same effect on her self esteem. I know the feeling of not wanting to change curriculums...again...because we did WAY too many times, but I do highly recommend MUS. It was the ONLY curriculum that gave her confidence enough to finish Algebra and Geometry---we switched out of desperation so many times, that's all she had time for :001_huh:
s/o No Reply At All---> Chilly Board?
in General Education Discussion Board
Posted
I do agree with this, but I find this is the case with most HS boards, so not any more so here than anywhere else. But don't worry---I've never been in the 'IN' crowd here, at SL or anywhere else IRL :001_huh: I just figure it's Gods plan for my life experience.