Nscribe
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Posts posted by Nscribe
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I swear the whole thing does make you think... Maybe we are all working hard to teach the classics when really we should be focusing on agricultural skills for the new economy. Geez!
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There are a couple of current threads about credits needed for high school and about ages for graduation/college that are active here in the high school section. You might want to look over them.
You said he is bright and hard working and you both are grieving. Grief can be a process and he may handle it differently as time passes than you. He is at that age where he is changing so much anyway. It is hard, but if he can continue to work math it will help open options. Sciences in high school are so math dependent that when push comes to shove it is the one thing you do if you can't eek out anything else. Is there some way he could be more independent with the math (video supplement or such) so that you have the time to grieve for yourself while he continues?
Going to the Ukraine is an education in itself. Life offers learning opportunities and sometimes the key is seeing how they are just as valuable as a text and some questions. He will have an experience that is rich and direct. You can learn so much history just figuring out how the Ukraine became what it is.
We went through a time a few years ago when real life just kept persistently reminding us it required our attention. We made it through, and found by keeping that math going the rest fell in place quickly and easily once the crisis passed. Dd now has choices, graduation early, on time or late -- because we kept that math going. The storms and clouds do pass, it is nice to have something to harvest when they do.
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If you want to do only Ancient History for the year, then going with the Susan Wise Bauer History of the Ancient World is fine. Keep in mind, it covers not only the Fertile Crescent, Greece and Rome. You will also cover some Asian (especially China) and if I am remembering correctly maybe even some Latin American bits. Paring this up with TC courses could work. (We opted to do Ancients thru Middle Ages one year and then do Renaisance to Modern the next. We made this choice because by the time she cycled back to it, she really had done the ancients so much.)
One thing to keep in mind is that depending on your stop date historically you will hit most of the major religions and covering them is a chunk of its own. We actually watched all the TC courses on each of the major religions and it was interesting.
I used the opportunity to really secure geography skills. A great deal of the written work was with maps. She wrote a few pieces comparing cultures or explaining how given personalities were instrumental. We used a lot of film (History channel docs on battle tactics of the Greeks, a bit on the development of numbers...all sorts of stuff). It was a fun and interesting year for history. For Literature, our course followed pretty much the same readings as Regentrude's post above and used the lectures like she did.
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I find it really interesting that employment is a consistent theme in what is being done and the news keeps talking about struggles for youth finding jobs.
Thank you for all the responses, hoping for more as I trying to get a fix on what college students are doing now.
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I should not have clicked on the "having a hard time letting go" thread on the college board, given DD is an only I may have to start thinking about how to add 2 more years..... :crying:
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Ok, saw the following article and figured this is just too true to be good.
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I wonder how much of it would all depend in part on which college as well? Younger at big state U versus younger at small private LAC?
I really don't have a strong general feeling about college and start ages. I have seen too many of those situations where right for one kid is not right for the other. It has made me really trust that families generally make the right decisions for their own kids. Within my own family it went all sorts of ways, me very young, sisters right on "time" and brother redshirted. We all did very well, all were able early, but it just suited some to sprint, some others to cruise.
There have been some great tidbits in the responses. TY, keep it coming!
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Clustering labs can help keep it to 4 hours a week over 30 plus weeks. Doing it required me to be on my game before we started and know when to have a lab week or lab weekend versus a reading and exercises week.
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Conceptual Physics could work and would give him a base to build on in Chemistry and/or Biology. I recall some postings about Conceptual Chemistry. This might be work looking at to prepare for Forensics. At some point he could have a science elective (two in a year). Forensics really comes to life with some background in Physics, Biology and Chemistry.
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I see a big range in maturity - some 17 year olds are more mature than some 19 year olds. ...
It is very common at a lot of schools for students to attend for five or six years for undergrad and again age is not a big issue. ...
If anything I think it takes much more maturity to travel abroad than it does to be on most college campuses.
Most of the travel she would do would be with either us or her grandparents. She is mature, but the world is just different now. KWIM?
(thankfully NOT music....btdt and he would not survive that cut-throat major).
Faith
Because of her strong interest/talent with performing arts, she wants a school she can double major or major/minor. How do I say this...I think hanging with the performing arts crowd with the freedom of being away from home might benefit from a wee bit more time to mature? What do you think?
I'm not sure how we would have handled it all without homeschooling. My guy would have been stifled in our school - and underprepared academically for his college. Homeschooling gives one a LOT of freedom - esp with the internet.
This was a large part of the decision to homeschool for us in the first place. Things are changing so quickly even now in terms of how one can educate, these kids in high school today are living in revolutionary times in terms of the pace of change.
I like the idea of a gap year to gain some independence outside of a college setting, in productive pursuits that aren't all oriented around hundreds or thousands of 18 year olds being freed from parents for the first time.
Someone in the other thread asked, "how would they spend that extra year?" That really seems to be the question.
My kids will all graduate high school at 17 just because of when their birthdays are and when we started kindergarten. But we’re hoping they all have a gap year. This is less about being a certain age to enter college in my mind and more about having the freedom to explore opportunities outside of the formal school environment.
One part of this for us has been Grandparents. Dd is really blessed with a couple who are just amazing people, providing her daily with examples of how living and learning goes well into your late seventies and 80's. Their example reminds me that we wind up living many lives along the way. While the education she receives from her interaction is not formal, it sure is valuable.
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I saw a bit on TV today with Thomas Friedman talking on a panel about MOOC's (especially Coursera). It especially sent my thinking spinning further. He noted how rapid the rate of change in education will be at this point. It really is hard to know what to do for those who are coming of age in this period.
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Just FTR, by "held back" I don't just mean parents choosing to hold a student back on purpose. In many cases it is due to the situation like you mention.
Dd recently told an incredulous fellow teen, "it is not being held-back, it is chill'n and being let go" :coolgleamA:
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Creekland, the point you made about legal adult status did haunt me a bit as a younger student. It was things like, establishing an account with utilities and so forth.
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The title states the question: "how do your college students spend their summers?"
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The thread asking if 18 is on the young side to graduate high school, in light of a redshirting, trend really has me thinking. Dd and I are seriously considering allowing her an extra year of high school. She would thus be 19 when beginning graduating/beginning college (but not by much).
Dd could actually go one of three ways. She could graduate at 17, which would be one year earlier than if she were traditionally schooled in our area. She could graduate at 18, which would be typical. Or, she could graduate at 19. Need-based financial aid is not a realistic factor (we saved when she was very young). She will graduate having completed Calculus under any of the scenarios. Graduating early would eliminate the foreign travel she could do, and mean less pre-college training in the performing arts and fewer performance opportunities. Graduating on time would mean a compromise of some opportunities in the arts and a max of 6-9 weeks of foreign travel. Graduating at 19, she could spend up to six months traveling abroad. She is not interested in a "gap year" because if she waited until 19 she would actually want to do the travel components the later part of her sophmore and early part of her junior year.
I started college young, and frankly the biggest challenge was employment sufficient to pay the bills. I paid my own way and it was very difficult those first two years to access jobs that paid enough not to have to stack several jobs to make it (scholarships paid 2/3rds of the tuition/and dorm fees).
I don't see many discuss adding a year when the reason isn't related to sports or maturity/more time needed academically. The biggest issue I see is potentially graduating undergrad at 23, as opposed to 21 or 22. With dual enrollments/other credit in high school and summer school in undergrad, this may not be set in stone either.
I am just really curious what the advantages/drawbacks people may foresee or have from experience are. We are in the midst of needing to set the course for the next two years so it will be very beneficial to see what the hive says. TY in advance.
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7 days a week we are on the go to classes, events, rehearsals, performances. We spend mornings at home, sleep and bath at home, sometimes eat at home. But 7 days a week, we are gone for at least 4 hours per day.
It has been this way since Dd started pre-school. She is an outgoing kid, she likes people and it works. I am outgoing, but I like time at home. Sometimes it is hard, and sometimes I draw a line and say we must camp for a day or two in our own home. However, I remind myself she will be gone in a few years at college, I will be home and miss being on the go. This is the season to be on the go in my life, another season will follow.
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Ah, gotcha! I don't personally use TOG, MFW or any of those. But, talking with other mom's along the way the reasons have varied from spiritual issues to just feeling having it all set out in an organized way works for them as a family. Sometimes schooling multiple kids, they like having something they can feel is tried/true and will free them up a bit.
We use a variety of things and are influenced by a variety of educational philosophies. If forced to nail it down I would say we are WTM with many philosophically consistent deviations that cater to Dd's math/science and theatre strengths. In other words, I would tap dance around the question because it really just is a what works for us answer.
I appreciated that video post by Susan. It says a lot when the book's writer says she would do things differently in hindsight.
I am sure you will get lots of feedback from those who do use. It will be neat to watch the discussion.
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Take a look at Susan Wise Bauer's video about high school on these forums. She wrote the book and I would guess she would tell you the WTM is a guide, not a mandate.
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I am honestly not trying to be snarky or anything, but why does it matter?
I can see where there may be some real concerns for members of a the typical cohort who compete against the older student academically, in atheletics or otherwise. A year of age can make a significant difference in physical and mental development from birth through adolesence. But, if we really press the issue wouldn't it mean that some controlling authority would have to determine what perfect month/year = fair competition cohort. Go down that road and I can see where issues would arise requiring specificity down to the month.
I don't know about other people's kids but mine changes hugely over 6 months as a teen (sometimes over a month). My hands on experience is that what is experienced/done over time matters more than the passage of it. Just being a year older or younger doesn't tell me the story that knowing what is being done in those years does.
Again, not trying to be contrary, but beyond a range, just how important is a birthdate?
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Lori's post reminded me of something I think helps.
When admissions looks at homeschool applications, they look at a packet of information which tells a story.
1. Standardized test scores
2. Dual Enrollments
3. AP's/SAT 2's/CLEP
4. Extracurricular activities
5. Specialty achievement markers (ex: National Latin Exams, Math Competition exams...)
6. Contests/Awards
7. Essays
8. Regional or local demographic comparisions (they have a lot of big data to work with)
9. Courseload taken (credits, what they are, whether they meet the college's admin requirements, how many)
10. Letters of Rec
With tradtionally schooled students they have class rank, school past performance stats, and so forth they do not have with homeschoolers.
When you think about it, by the time a student submits an application, a narrative about the student emerges from all the cummulative bits they submit. You can sit down with a packet of information like this and begin to develop a description of a person. When information in the packet conflicts or something appears as not in synch with the story otherwise being told, it requires explanation. For example: if a student's transcript says they completed and extremely heavy courseload with very challenging courses, but their test scores and other information doesn't jive, questions emerge.
While requirements vary from college to college, often they want to see 4 English classes, @ 3 History, 3-4 Math, 2 Foreign Language, 3-4 science (one with lab). They generally phrase this as the minimums they seek. It varies a great deal.
If the question is how many credits does a student need to graduate high school, most states have those standards published via their state department of education. If the question is how many credits does a student need for a particular college, each college publishes what they want to see. It does vary, and then in any given area it may vary how many credits students typically earn. Some schools are located in areas where the trend is families who set very high expectations of their kids and what is typical at one school may be unheard of at another. The thing is, colleges really do have more data about what it is like for a student to be educated in one area than another (rural, suburban...). Again, just noting with this that a story about the student emerges both from what the student submits in their application and the college's data beyond applications.
The way I see it, as homeschoolers, our students don't have class ranks, school historical performances and so forth and the story our student's college applications tell relies more on how well other factors tell their story. Try to imagine being the admissions office examining the application and trying to decide where the student fits in with what you are seeing in all the other files on your desktop. You would have seen a lot of student "stories" and I would guess have a feel for when claims made in applications don't seem to line up with what experience tells you makes sense.
All of that is to say, we as homeschoolers in part help our children write the narrative they will present as a high school graduate. Whether that narrative shows 22 credits or 32 seems less and issue than what the claimed credits show in the context of the students overall story.
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As homeschoolers, we have access to all the high or low level teaching materials we want! That is where the true gift of it comes into play!
I took the liberty of bolding the above excerpt from Cyndi's response. I just really believe it gets to the heart of the issue.
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Or, does the upper tier kid have more honors/AP/Clep classes, and not necessarily more credits?
Hot Lava Mama
I have seen a handful of kids who have both the most intense classes and large credit numbers, but these are not the general trend. Generally, the more challenging the courses that comprise each credit, the fewer total credits.
At some point it becomes sketchy to try to compare to what the traditionally schooled kids do. Frankly, I have seen kids take the same course in the same semester, but with different teachers, and what they did varied so much there was no way to call it equally challenging. What = honors is especially mystifying. Sometimes it is the same content expectations as otherwise but more work, sometimes it is more content, sometimes it is not different but allows the cohorts to stay together.
I just think it comes down to presenting a solid, well rounded, course of study that cummulatively challenges and develops skills.
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18 upon entering college seems to be the prevailing trend. I was young entering college, but the times were very different (people over 18 were loath to live with parents, legal drinking age 18-changed to 21...). College use to start in college, now with Dual Enrollment and AP, it starts in high school to some extent.
When I compare Dd to those born the same year and within a month of her it is hard to say there is a standard. Some are incredibly "mature" in their work habits/organization, some are very wise for their years, some are in the moment, some niave... The 18 year olds I know are also scattered all over the spectrums. It just seems that if the question is when to enter an endeavor that involves 100,000's of dollars, living indepently and engaging activities that determine what one will be, the question is less about a year of birth and more about a year of readiness.
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Nothing to add, but this sounds like a really interesting course.
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I chose to be very clear with Dd before we started high school. If she wanted to homeschool, she would be required to complete 4 credits in each of the following: Math, History/Social Studies, Literature/Composition, Science, Foreign Language and an elective of her choice each year. In addition she had to complete one year of PE/Health with specific componenents (CPR/First Aid certification, trial of three previously untried sports...). Thus, at a minimum, to earn my signature, she would complete a minimum of 25 credits. It looks like she will finish 28 (on top of her four years of Spanish she is doing 2 of Latin and completing Prego for Italian).
I suggested to her that 4 of the credits should be AP (take the exam and make at least a 4) and two others would involve the SAT 2.
Dd is very involved in the performing arts, for years she has averaged 20+ hours a week in formal class/rehearsals/performances. This activity will be reflected on her transcript as extracurricular.
In our area, the public schools operate on block schedules and the students wind up with between 28-32 credits (7-8 per year) and the privates generally fall in the 28 per year range. In both the private and the public schools, these include fine arts, choir/band and so forth. As I sit in lobbies at various activities I hear the gamesmanship that goes on in the jockeying for class rank (GPA) and various select activities (in school clubs...). It is clear, the students who aspire high are doing a great deal and their parents are working it on their behalf.
I have made plenty of mistakes homeschooling, but so far being very clear early on with Dd about what would be required to graduate from our school has not been one of them. Dd has a very active part in determining what is done to complete each credit, what it will be comprised of and what each year's working schedule will look like. She recently told me she appreciates having a clear framework within which she has a great deal of choice.
When I set it up, I fell back on my own experiences and the confidence a sound prep background (which was pretty much classical) gave me when I entered college. I also knew what skills I felt she really needed to learn/practice and incorporated that in the 5x4 (five subject area times 4 year) plan. Although I am aware of what is being done in the schools, I am willing to see her graduate with a different experience and if that means 25 credits while others sport 32, so be it. I will sleep well knowing what she did and she will be prepared for the next step.
Does enrolling in an online school really help with accountability?
in High School and Self-Education Board
Posted
I find it really does center us a bit to at least do a couple of things in a manner other than mom provided. For Dd around late 7th - 8th (the year she is lucky I am a patient woman) and early this year, it was harder to squeeze production out of her. I have yet to talk with another teen mom that doesn't share there is some period around the early to mid teens they face the "apathy-eye rolling-do so little it is tedious to watch phase". Some brilliant scientist is going to render a treatment for it someday (or maybe it was meant in the greater plan to help us part with them easier when the graduate). At least in my experience, it helped to have something in the mix that wasn't purely left to me to tap my toes and listen to the next brilliantly crafted excuse for something being undone. We never went online to find that because there were local options, but I am sure you will get feedback from some who did.
Hang in there, I am told they grow past it (or the aliens return and give back the child they took and work resumes).