Finnella
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Posts posted by Finnella
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I'm trying to remember now, but shoelaces were around 10+ on my dd, and bike riding was even later.
My DS still avoids tying shoes, and he only started riding a bike at age 12. One of the reasons we moved his older brother, gifted and without LDs, from parochial school was an insane fixation on shoe lace tying in kindergarten. He was a nervous wreck by the end of the first semester.
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Between my DS's academic needs and my poor health, we're really limited on what we can add on. He takes theater classes through a local theater group, the one activity he asked to keep when we started homeschooling. It does require homework (mostly studying his lines), but it's something he really wants to do. We do field trip stuff only very rarely, if it's something I can manage and he's really interested in. For now, his athletic program is very informal, consisting of running around the neighborhood and riding his bike. We used to do more, but we both found it very stressful.
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. . . We have done a few chapters but then changed to Introductory Logic by Nance. It's much drier, but it only gives small pieces of information before the exercises, most of which can be done verbally, or on a whiteboard - and it takes it one small step at a time. My son has had no trouble with this book so far. The other one went straight over his head. We have the Intro logic DVDs coming any day soon. The one part i love about DoD is the chapter at the end on Inductive Logic. I judged the whole book from that chapter. It's definitely worth reading just for your own education.
I'm going to make sure I read that chapter before parting with DoD. And I have Nance's book on my list of alternatives.
Finella, we have watched a few units of the DVDs to Introductory Logic by James Nance (note: this is not the book/DVDs of Cothran's Traditional Logic), and I glad I got them. OK, they're dry and there are no special effects or fun video clips; just a teacher and a whiteboard, but they save my vocal chords and give ds another point of view, as I intend to do each section slowly and thoroughly. So, we will 1. watch the dvd, 2. read the unit, 3. do the exercises verbally and with a personal whiteboard (as ds is writing-phobic).I appreciate the information about the DVDs. I believe I was thinking of the ones that MeganP mentioned that regularly receive negative reviews. It's also a bonus to me when I don't have to be the main speaker. I think it's also more interesting for Tiger when he gets to listen to someone else (not me) talk, even if it's a DVD.
If you just want to try a different curriculum, you might look at The Snake and the Fox by Mary Haight. It's a little more entertaining than your standard logic text, and is meant to be an intro course for high school students. It's not super in-depth, and more plain English than loads of symbols and notation, but for an 8th grader that's probably more doable than a notation-heavy text.My used copy arrived today. Yay! I'm going to be read it through first. Elegantlion's point about reading the text first was spot on. I had started doing that in DoD, but I didn't start over the summer and was barely ahead of my son. I'm going to take this chance to regroup and be better prepared for the next try. I may not return to logic until the fall as we have lots of math to cover this year. If I forget to post something additional about The Snake and the Fox, anyone interested can PM me. Since I won't be using it soon, I could easily forget to post an update.
. . . I got Traditional Logic to do with ds in 8th grade but decided that I'd rather focus on teaching study skills in 8th grade and pushed TL off till this year, 9th grade. He's doing very well with the course. It clearly explains everything in a step-by-step fashion. . . .I'm glad someone weighed in on Traditional Logic; I've heard of it but never seen a copy. I have heard the DVDs aren't good. Nevertheless, I'm going to keep it on my list of possibilities. I'll need to take a closer look at TL and Nance's IL if The Snake doesn't work out.
My thanks to everyone for giving me so many good ideas.
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I did not say logic is not necessary. I said a study of formal logic is not necessary to do the things you describe below because it is quite possible to become astute at picking up logical fallacies and being precise about premises and conclusions if the person's logic sense has been honed through other fields, such as math or programming.
I think your original post was clear. I'm only still looking at formal logic because my DS's least favorite courses are in the math and science area. Though I am keeping it as a backup plan if I find formal logic doesn't work out. There's too much sloppy thinking out in the world already; I need to do what I can to help my son do better than that.
As for all the advertising and other widespread deceptive deceits, I think Art of Argument is wonderful because it teaches informal logic using ads. I'd been trying to point out problems with advertising since my son was much younger. AoA is what finally got through to him. So at least I've got that covered; my DS enjoys making fun of ads now.
If you just want to try a different curriculum, you might look at The Snake and the Fox by Mary Haight. It's a little more entertaining than your standard logic text, and is meant to be an intro course for high school students. It's not super in-depth, and more plain English than loads of symbols and notation, but for an 8th grader that's probably more doable than a notation-heavy text.I appreciate the tip; used copies are very affordable. After we take a break, I do want to give formal logic another try, and I am looking at other options. While elegantlion had great success with DoD, I have serious doubts about it. So I'm holding on to it and looking at the alternatives that posters have suggested.
I appreciate all the help y'all have given me. I needed some new ideas to think about in this area.
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As far as level, we did it in 8th and I don't think I'd try it much before that. Ds thinks in a philosophical way, otherwise the subject itself would probably have been in 9th or above.
It may be partially a developmental issue. Tiger's in 8th grade, but he's an Aspie. It usually isn't an issue with curriculum, but some areas can lag 2 -3 years behind in development. I would've posted on the SN board if I thought he wasn't ready for it, but now you've got me re-thinking that.
If formal logic turns out to be time consuming with small results, I'd ditch the subject completely. It is perfectly possible to develop logical thinking through math, physics, and computer programming.I agree that other coursework can teach logic. My son's least favorite subject is math, so I'm not sure he'll pick logic up there. I wish he were more interested in computer programming; I have a family member who's eager to help teach him. I got lots of my instruction from a great deal of Latin, but foreign language terrifies my DS. (Yes, we are doing math, Latin, and science anyway.) It's more to think about, and I appreciate that.
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I agree; Discovery of Deduction is very wordy and too theoretical. We have done a few chapters but then changed to Introductory Logic by Nance. It's much drier, but it only gives small pieces of information before the exercises, most of which can be done verbally, or on a whiteboard - and it takes it one small step at a time. My son has had no trouble with this book so far. The other one went straight over his head. We have the Intro logic DVDs coming any day soon.
The one part i love about DoD is the chapter at the end on Inductive Logic. I judged the whole book from that chapter. It's definitely worth reading just for your own education.
Thanks for the suggestion. I'd love to hear how the DVDs work out.
We're going to take a break from logic, but I'm thinking about trying Nance when we return to the subject. My son might be willing to settle for dry if it gets the job done and he's not spending so much time wading through confusing verbiage.
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But we are math intuition geeks here; also the rule of four did NOT go over well. I am so glad to know that it works extremely well for some children! will help me in rec'ing math programs ...
It was a huge help for my math challenged son. It helped me too. (Our household has a distinct lack of math intuition.)
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My 8th grader has been slogging through Discovery of Deduction this year. In addition to being bored, I don't think he's getting much out of it. We do weekly discussions and review most of the exercises together; I'm not trying to get him to do this independently. He really enjoyed Art of Argument last year and learned a great deal. Logic's taking a lot of time this year with depressingly small results. I'm not sure if it's worth it to keep going. I don't know if I should wait another year, try another curriculum, suffer through regardless.
I only have the one DS at home, so I could use advice and ideas on how to proceed. If I try another curriculum, I can't saddle him with lots of writing. We're doing most of the exercises orally, except for definitions and a few exercises. (He's a slow writer, and we started IEW this year. Plus he doesn't learn better if he writes things down.)
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We've loved everything we've made from this GF cookbook. For loaf bread, we're using her companion book for bread machines. The bread machine recipe was adapted from her original baking book (the first one I mentioned). The bread's so good that the kids want to eat it, even though it's primarily for my husband and me. Somehow the kids don't seem to have inherited our gluten intolerance.
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No idea - but I wonder if the link is because of yeast levels in the body. My ds and I both have high levels of yeast. I went on a very strict Candida diet and felt so much better - slept better, calmer, clearer thinking, fewer headaches and muscle pains. Less successful with ds, but then it's a lot harder to keep him on diet. I went off diet a few months ago and I'm back to where I started. :( I'm going back on diet, doing a sugar cleanse for my ds and I'm also checking for food allergies.
While my DS has been fortunate enough to escape yeast complications, I've had lots of problems with candida. Restricting sugar has been very helpful.
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Thanks for the kind response. Obviously I can really geek out on Star Trek. :001_smile:
P.S. Where will you work in "Common Idioms" like "Beam me up, Scotty."?I'm a doctor not a magician (or whatever you care to insert)! And you'd have to throw in "red shirts" because it's spread so far that it's definitely not limited to sci fi anymore. Plus, "He's dead, Jim."
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We did HWT's cursive book at that age. I picked out several styles of cursive and let my DS pick the style he liked best. I wanted him to be able to write simple notes and sign his name. He wasn't wild about it but it worked.
Now he's doing his spelling in cursive; it was his choice of subject. Without practice, he'd just forget it again. I do notes for him in cursive often, so he can practice reading it. That meant I had to learn HWT style too. My handwriting hasn't looked this good since 3rd grade.
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I think this is a great idea, though I might like it more than my son.
One theme that's always interested me is the built in assumptions and issues that change over the history of the shows. In the original, there were often references to women, for example, were "modern women" still women (Conscience of the King). It was a bigger issue in the 1960s. There was a built in assumption that career officers didn't have families.
Contrast that with ST:TNG. There's a built in assumption that everyone's in great physical shape. Remember those uniforms? But there's no more debating whether women should be in space. By then, officers could have families though it's not an area of strength for their writers. Religion has become an almost taboo topic, especially for humans. (The second ST movie, Wrath of Khan, has Dr. McCoy refer to the creation story of Genesis as "ancient myth." I know it's set earlier than TNG but it came out in 1982, closer to TNG's 1989 debut than the original series dates.)
So obviously I've spent way too much time thinking about Star Trek. I hope the course goes splendidly.
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Sorry I can't help. Hopefully this will be bump and someone will know. All I know is that it makes a huge difference to my son, for his ADD and his migraines.
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I'm re-reading all of these posts again since it's almost time to go back to the doc next week. I like the idea of the stress ball. We've thought of something like that, but haven't started it yet. I don't know if ds will go for it because he's quite happy with his current habit and doesn't see the need to change.
Dh and I have been reading a lot about Aspergers since the diagnosis. Some times I really have my doubts and (don't flame me for this please I'm a new aspirer-mother and probably in denial) but sometimes Asperger's just seems like a personality type and not a "syndrome" or "disorder" at all. But I'm really really reluctant to start him on the anti-psychotic. And certainly not before trying something else first. We were supposed to have started the anti-psychotic this week and we've chosen not to. In fact, ds has just started giving us resistance to taking the anti-depressant. We're telling him to discuss it with the doc. He says he feels no different on it. Plus, he's probably feeling good because he was just accepted to medical school. I guess when life is going your way, it's easy to say "I don't need that pill." But I know his attitude can change quick as a blink. So for now, we're really encouraging him to stay on the anti-depressant.
It is hard; I had some denial too. Keep on reading and researching; it's also quite illuminating when you get a chance to see a group of Aspies. It's interesting and educational.
I'm not personally keen on the anti-psychotic and also one of the people wondering if your DS would work harder on other solutions once he saw this as a barrier to succeeding in medical school. I'm all for trying alternatives to medication; however, my DS is on Straterra and a sleep med. So far we've managed to avoid adding anything for anxiety.
I'm not quick to judge about medication though. There's enough of that out there already; I've seen mothers quickly reduced to tears when the general topic is discussed because they've been judged so harshly. (What is a mother to do when her daughter has to lock herself in her room constantly to protect herself from her brother? Is she a bad mom for medicating her son? Maybe she should have given him to the state and had him institutionalized instead?) I do know some Aspies benefit from anti-psychotics, but it's fine to explore other options first.
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I second Freaks and Geeks. The title's a turn off for many, but it's a very good book.
For in depth reading, Tony Attwood's book is fanatastic. In addition to the others listed above, there's also Asperkids, though it is aimed more at parents. My son, age 13, also likes it. I think it's the only one of my collection he's read.
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My DS has ADD-Inattentive. We started medication when he was still in ps and in 3rd grade. The first attempt was a low level stimulant, and then he told his class he was going to kill himself. So not a good choice at all.
He was really struggling in school, so we tried Straterra and it was a big success. (A big bonus is that it doesn't aggravate his anxiety.) He went off it for a few months last year, and it was a disaster despite being the only kid at home. So he went back on. We haven't had any problems with side effects. Until this fall, it's worked just wonderfully. His neurologist recently increased his dosage, and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it'll work again.
This school year has been horrible without it. My DS is so frustrated. 7th grade was fantastic, and he was feeling so much better about himself. Now he has a miserable time trying to do any of his school work. I'd love to have him off meds but our attempts in that direction have been failures.
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yet more testing
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After our first year homeschooling, I read an ebook. I believe it was called "Full Contact Math" about a homeschooling mom who was a math major and still had trouble getting math done.
Her answer is to spend more time with your kids while doing math. So I tried it and math's gone much better. Plus I've learned some things. We use MUS; we watch the video together; then he does the work while I'm hanging around. Occasionally he has a question, but usually I'm just in the room.
It's helped.
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I have on ADHD combined, one ADD/Inattentive, and one ADHD-hyperactive child
Couple of things
1. ADD/ADHD-Inattentive is the hardest to treat with meds
2. For ADD (inattentive, no hyperactivity) LOW dosage of STIMULANT med's have shown most effectiveness, so not sure why doc has him on high levels of straterra
Good luck!!
It depends on the kid. Low dose stimulants had my DS announcing to his class (he was still in ps when first diagnosed) that he was going to kill himself. He's ADD-Inattentive.
Straterra was wonderful and a huge help for several years. It's what we used for 4th through 7th grade. But I feel your pain because it's stopped working for us too. It's made this year just awful so far. We have an appointment next week, though I have no idea what we can try now.
:grouphug:
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We've had lots of success with A&P. My DS has always had a horrible time spelling, to the point that spell check can't help at all. We started in the second book of A&P last year, and his spelling is so much better now.
I also love that I don't have to prep it. We just start the next lesson and go.
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How horrible!!!! How are things going now that he is home?
The rest of 6th grade was rough; we found out new things he hadn't learned almost every week. That was hard for us. Seventh grade went really well. He started learning again and regaining self-confidence.
We just started 8th grade; he retained lots of math for the first time ever, and his work ethic has really strengthened. We're off to a good start, and we're all really glad we started homeschooling.
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We didn't start homeschooling until the middle of 6th grade, so I've definitely gotten to see how it plays out in public school. My DS learned no social skills in school. He had no school friends at all, and the only social interactions - especially starting around 3rd grade - were negative. People often forget that socialization isn't automatically a positive thing.
Bullying got much worse as he got older. He has an older brother, so I've seen this even with the NT kids. Once the kids hit middle school, don't expect the school to take the threat seriously unless a bullying incident involves a weapon and/or hospital visit. (That's what is reported to the state in NC.)
We never managed to get the IEP that our psychologist wanted, but we did have a 504 starting in 3rd grade. Our son is 2e; the school's accommodations ended up leaving him in a situation where he didn't learn lots of things. For example, don't teach him math, hand him a calculator. In 7th grade, I started math over at the 1st grade level. But shortly before I pulled him out of ps, the middle school gutted his 504, blamed him for the bullying, ignored everything I had to say, and claimed to have expertise with Aspies. My son often didn't even know which class he was in (study skills or language arts?), and he was failing half his classes.
Most of the teachers and administrators we encountered had NO expertise with learning disabilities. So the idea that the ps is going to catch things you won't is just wrong. And even if they do see something, they often do not want to remediate because that costs more money.
It can take a lot of work and research on your part to homeschool a child with special needs, but it is doable. And the teacher-student ratio at home is superior to anything your child can get at ps.
We're so glad we decided to pull our DS out of ps. It was originally because of the bullying, but then we discovered all the things that he hadn't learned while in ps. I'm afraid that if he'd made it until 9th grade, he would have been one of those kids dropping out because things had become too overwhelming.
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My son has Aspergers. Getting him to write has been a struggle. Giving him a nifty page helps get him going. I don't think I will make him do them all. . . .
My son's an Aspie too. The pretty frames on some pages really help him. Pretty notebooking paper has made him more enthusiastic about practicing handwriting too. (He does need to be able to sign his name after all.) He usually prefers to do his own thing, but this is one area where he really likes someone else thinking up page ideas.
Explain to me the importance of grammar for my dyslexic
in The Learning Challenges Board
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I definitely wouldn't drop it as much as I've felt the same way. The other posters have given some good suggestions as to curriculum choices. I'd separate grammar from reading assignments. You're right not to want to crush a love of reading!