shanvan
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Posts posted by shanvan
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Thank you for all of the responses. I sat Ds down today and MADE him examine the differences in the curriculum. I told him I was not going to go through a prolonged discussion with financial aid if he didn't think he would end up choosing the more expensive university. I believe he has made a decision, though I will wait until after his last visit to the school on Monday to post on the decisions thread.
He wants to go to the State University which we think is not going to cost him a penny b/c of a grant they offer plus his scholarship (waiting on final numbers for confirmation). It is closer, commute is easier, he will not have to worry about earning a certain amount to pay tuition, they offer a significant scholarship for study abroad to honors students, and, most importantly, he likes the curriculum a hundred times more (his words). Less pressure to meet a certain GPA b/c his scholarship is not huge. If he lost it, he could still afford the tuition.
I am so relieved! Anyway, I do not think we need to ask the other university for more money!
​We are all going to give the decision a few days to be sure, but I think he's made his choice.
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I would ask. We get need based aid, and between loans, grants, and scholarships I have my total cost of attendance covered (that's the sticker price including money for room and board). Ds also gets need based aid and his cost of attendance is covered at a lower rate, not sure exactly how it's figured out and our tuition is low overall. They know he lives at home and he still got offered enough to cover some living expenses after tuition and books.
It might depend upon your FAFSA EFC as well.
Thank you! After looking at the numbers again, I think we should ask. I don't want working to interfere with his ability to study and participate in clubs and activities on campus. I thought the hard part would be over after acceptance letters. Boy was I wrong!
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I was considering the possibility of asking one of the two universities Ds is considering if there is any possibility of receiving a little more financial aid. However, Ds and I both feel odd doing so.
The financial aid package he was offered includes a work study (as mentioned in another post). Including that award plus the university's presidential scholarship, plus state and federal aid, the financial aid is roughly $1,500 short of the cost of tuition (with all fees included). He is going to have to work in order to afford the $1500 (on top of the work study amount). We are in no position to help beyond a little here and there toward transportation and food. He will live at home.
He still needs to come up with book costs and some transportation funds. Ds and I think we would be asking too much if we asked for a little more in grants or scholarships instead of work study b/c the amount he would need to pay is so small compared with the cost of tuition.
Ds wants to avoid loans, so the financial aid I mentioned includes no loans even though they were listed as options. He can afford it for the first 2 years b/c of outside scholarships. The remaining 2 years, I have told him he may need to include loans in order to pay for increased tuition. If he can keep his grades up, there are grants he can apply for through the college that will cover the cost of the tuition increase. He will have to keep his grades up anyway in order to keep the Presidential Scholarship.
What do you think? Would you ask for more aid or ask if the work study could possibly be replaced with a grant?
He is comparing this university to one that has provided him with full tuition (no loans). He can easily cover the cost of books and the transportation costs.
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if you go the breeder route, get a bench and not a field if you're looking for a calmer pet companion
Also consider rescue. Breed rescue will match you with one with a good temperament.
My heart dogs are English Setters (field) which are the ESS's taller, skinnier and super manic cousins :p
We have both -- 2 English Setters and an ESS and lots of experience with both. Generally English Setters have far less energy than ESS. BUT, English Setters will eat things, anything (think of that dog that had a bazillion socks in his stomach). They need to be disciplined and my personal preference is that they be crate trained--for their own safety. The ESS definitely grew out of the eating things stage, not the English Setters!
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Isn't this federally funded? At Ds's school they know how much federal money they will receive, so they create a specific number of jobs at 10 hours/week, minimum wage. Kids can go online and see the available jobs, then apply. He said he's never heard any of his friends who were eligible that didn't get a job. There are also campus jobs that are not part of the federal program; Ds works in the IT dept and makes $10/hour, but they still limit him to 10 hours a week. These type jobs can affect FAFSA, but work study does not.
Good question! On financial award for Ds it is listed as College Work Study, so I would guess it is not.
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Call financial aid and ask what percentage of students want work-study but can't get it.
I've heard of colleges which just don't have enough work-study jobs available. My older two attended a college where work-study was available for anyone on either financial aid or merit aid, since there weren't enough students who needed it to fill all the positions available.
Do consider the possibility that work-study isn't the best option for work. Some jobs pay really well, and work-study usually only pays a bit above minimum wage. What matters is how much money he earns, not whether he earns it on campus or off campus!
This is what we were thinking, though if there were jobs related to his major, he may like that. Anyway--it is just like I thought, then. In my book this is very iffy financial aid. Not really something to count on. Ds was already planning to continue his part time job.
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Ds was awarded Work Study aid as part of his financial aid package. IT was explained to us that he would have to find a job at the campus job fair in the fall. He was also told he could earn more than what was listed and that the hours and amount depend on the job he finds. This all sounds very up in the air as far as counting on it for financial aid. So, it is possible he would not be able to find a job? And he will be competing with other students for the work study jobs? How can they list an amount and then say the amount depends? I am finding it confusing. We also found out that Ds's current part time job pays more than work study.
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We would like to order a diploma for Ds, but I am stuck on what to use for a homeschool name. For the colleges I used (our last name) Homeschool. Now I'm regretting that b/c I think it will look weird on the diploma. BUT, his diploma should match the records we sent to the college, right?
Going back to check his transcript and the common app now so I can double check just what I used for a name.
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Now that you have all been with me for ds disappointment that financial aid for first pic isn't happening I am finding this thread to be helpful.
Now ds is going back and forth with the two contenders. Both 3 hours away in opposite directions. Both have their plus and minus columns. In all honesty either choice would be a good fit but one is definitely a slightly better fit then the other. At least to his father and I. He needs to make the choice but he seems afraid to choose. Commiting to that next step is scary stuff.
We are down to 2 as well and somewhat like Lisa, the state u that is very convenient only sort of addresses Ds's interests, but does not offer the same resources that the more expensive option does. However, they offer just enough to make me wonder if Ds can make it do. Having no debt is attractive, as is the ability to pretty much keep things at status quo for the rest of the family.
And then the state school also has him in their honors program which allows him to travel for short term study abroad at no cost. That is very nice, but I'm not sure it outweighs all the practical skills Ds can gain at the more expensive school.
I have people telling me I need to choose for him and tell him he is going to the school that won't cost him in terms of dollars. I won't do that. It is his choice.
So we all need a crystal ball so we can forsee the future and know the best decision. Two roads diverging in a yellow wood....ugh.
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Also don't forget that at most schools tuition (and other expenses) go up every year. If you are financially stretched to the max freshman year what happens when tuition increases? We had to borrow money from my mom because we forgot to account for this with my oldest.
This is what we are investigating currently and I think projected increases (plus the fact that 2 outside scholarships are only good for the first 2 years) make the best school just out of reach without loans. So now the questions we are asking ourselves: Are loans worth it? Does the better school truly provide more opportunities? How will struggling to pay tuition affect Ds's ability to do well? Can he realistically work while attending? What would happen if Dh were to lose his job?
And what direction Ds decides to take for future employment greatly affects his school choice. And who can really predict that? The decision is so much more difficult than I anticipated. I am at the point of going to one of the colleges to see if they can come up with any more money to make it more affordable.
Then I also think it could be possible to find different scholarships for the final 2 years, but that is not a certainty.
And now I need to stop thinking about it all for at least half a day!
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Ds applied to seven, all either local or near relatives who he could live with. He received generous merit aid from all but two schools. Of the schools that did not offer merit, one was a highly selective 'reach' school, the other was a school that is known more for their stem majors and Ds is most likely an English major, which is reflected in his high school transcript. His math scores are barely average and I almost made him retake the SATs, but I am glad I didn't. HE needed the time for current courses and scholarship applications (b/c he is a member of several clubs that have scholarships going unused every year and they are almost begging Ds to apply). In the end, I think his English scores and his extracurriculars (lots of public speaking and leadership) made the admissions officers look past his less than stellar math performance.
He is down to the 2 most affordable options (no loans), which happily are the two that he would feel most comfortable attending. Making a decision is proving very difficult for him.
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Honestly, for us, money trumps all. And getting another car with insurance is expensive. So based on the info provided, I like school 2.
That said, however, I would also investigate if there are other potential majors that your student might be drawn to, since kids often do change majors. If there's a decent variety of stuff he would probably like, then I'd be comfortable there.
FWIW, though, my dd is right now in 9th grade, and we have a local community college and 4 year university. She likes Early Childhood Education and maybe might be interested in Dental Assisting instead. Both of which are offered by the CC. And she can get her Associate's degree for the cost of one year the 4 year school. Which has good transfer agreements with the cc.
So, ymmv, but, again, money trumps all.
The difference is not much. Tuition will be relatively easy for him to pay just by working in the summer at his current job even at the schools that will cost. He should already have the first 2 years paid for with outside scholarships & money saved.
I know what you are saying with the car, but he does need to get his own license and car at some point, so I go back and forth on that issue.
ETA: If we were talking about more money then school 2 would win out.
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Bear with me--this is long! Skip the paragraphs b/t the lines if you don't want to read details. And, fyi, I am obsessed with the idea of needing a 5th year to graduate b/c I took 5 years--BUT, I also worked a 30 hour a week job while in school, which I do not think Ds will have to do. (I like to think ahead and apply worst case scenario logic. It makes me feel more in control. Lol)
Ds is in a very good position being accepted to every college/university he applied to--even his reach (which was amazing to me). We are waiting on one school for financial aid details. For the most part the costs are ending up very similar, but one of the schools looks like it will be a free ride b/c of a grant the school offers. One school he ruled out b/c he would need to live with a family friend and commute--and he would need to buy his own car before fall, which would mean his own insurance. They are all close to home, so distance is not a factor. The others are still very affordable and that is b/c of Dh's lay off almost 3 years ago and his new salary being so low. He has narrowed them to top 3 choices.
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He and I feel overwhelmed with making the decision. I have been looking at online comparison tools, but they don't really account for his specific situation. Ds is interested in majoring in English, communications/journalism/public relations.
School 1: Presidential scholarship, 1/2 hr commute, good journalism program with great establish internships, Ds likes campus, likes students. This school is frowned upon by many b/c of the expense and value for the money, though it is not going to be expensive for Ds, assuming he can keep his scholarship. They will stack scholarships, and that will make the first 2 years low or no cost for tuition b/c of several outside scholarships. I am not even sure he will need all of those scholarships--some may go to books. They have a grant that will keep Ds's costs the same for 4 years. However, a lot of students take more than 4 years to graduate. A 5th year without the presidential scholarship would be unaffordable for us.
School 2: Free tuition, Honors College, Campus not as nice, students keep more to themselves, Ds has a friend still attending who is involved in many organizations, some of which he would also join. The commute is easier since I only have to drive him 15 mins to a train station and he can take train. His grandparents live in the town with the train station within walking distance. He could stay overnight with them if for some reason I could not drive him. He will not have to worry about getting a car until he is ready to get one. This school has no journalism major, but does have an English Major and will work to design a program with Ds. They do offer a digital certificate Ds is interested in. It is a well recognized school nationally, though not highly ranked like school 3. It is obvious he will get a lot of personal attention there based on his visit. At this school many students take more than 4 years to graduate, but if Ds took 5 years it would still be affordable.
School 3: This is Ds's reach school and has a VERY good reputation--top ranked. We do not have financial aid details yet. Commute is similar to school 1. Costs are probably similar to school 1, but if Ds needed a 5th year it would still be affordable (school 1 would not). We do not know a lot about the English and Communications department b/c, frankly, we did not think he would get into this college. We now feel we need to investigate more. Outside of the Northeast I am not sure a lot of people have heard of the school, so it does not have the name recognition of school 2 and so far, Ds has not been invited to the honors college.
With Schools 1 & 3, I suspect I am going to want him to get a car pretty quickly b/c of the commuting. That is going to add the expense of insurance. Realistically, he is going to end up getting a car at some point, so I am not sure it is going to be a huge factor. Ds is keeping his part time job, which is very flexible. He will not work a lot during the school year, but enough to cover a few expenses.
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So now we are at the point of trying to compare:
- The actual course requirements for the majors he is considering.
- The statistics regarding graduation and whether a 5th year is normal for students and why.
- Whether or not a 5 year masters is available and how much it costs.
- The type of internships available.
- Where students end up when they graduate.
Am I on the right track with these comparisons? In some ways I think they may be just overkill. So many kids change their mind about majors, so then course specific info would not matter. Am I nuts to think about graduation taking more than 4 years? Why can't we just decide that he is going to have to graduate in 4 years? A five year masters means locking into that school for graduate studies, and maybe he would rather go elsewhere.
And as far as internships and where students go when they graduate--to me that info seems hard to find. I can find some statistics, but statistics don't tell the whole story. Those experiences seem very specific to individuals--so they may not apply to Ds. Am I right, or are there ways to find out more about internships and employment that I am unaware of?
So far we have looked at the info the colleges supply themselves plus the advertised internships on the colleges websites, and some online statistics from sites that rank colleges. Ds needs to visit the 3rd school since he has not been there yet.
So what else should we be doing? What are you and your child comparing when making the decision? I would appreciate feedback or suggestions. Thanks for listening to all the thoughts that have been floating around in my brain!
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I'm probably more conservative than DH when it comes to how the kids dress, teen or otherwise. Tbh, DD and I don't really clash about her clothing. She knows there are certain combinations she's not allowed to wear out of the house at all, and certain things that are okay for general outings but not for our (generally conservative) homeschool group. She's allowed to experiment with makeup at home, and she likes trying out the heavy eyeliner and such. I'm not really a fan of that look, but I allow it around here, as long as she doesn't wear it out of the house (and we have talked about how people, unfortunately, will make snap judgments about certain looks, so it's sometimes just easier to avoid that -- doesn't make it right, but sometimes less hassle is better). She is allowed to wear subtle makeup out of the house, for about a year or so (she's not quite 14). We have talked about modesty isn't just about skin showing but about drawing undue attention to yourself, and how sometimes it just isn't necessary. We have plenty we don't see eye to eye on, but clothing and makeup don't tend to be two of our battle areas. She's been pretty accepting of me saying that something isn't appropriate for a particular outing, and I don't hassle her about what she wears around the house (none of it has been what I'd term indecent, just not appropriate for certain outings), and that seems to work for us. This may change as she gets older, I know.
I do admit to missing her colonial clothing obsession, which was adorable. She'd complain about not having enough petticoats or that her dresses weren't quite long enough. :)
This definition of modesty really bothers me. If you stand out because you have done a beautiful job fitting your clothing to the occasion and to your body type and you just look outstanding--that's not being modest? People with good taste will always stand out and draw attention. And that has nothing to do with how much skin is being shown.
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If you (might) qualify for a state grant, you must list a school that takes your state grant first (usually an in-state public).
Otherwise, ranking no longer matters. The government is no longer sharing FAFSA school lists or rankings with colleges.
They will be discontinuing sharing the list of FAFSA schools with state grant programs starting next year as well.
ETA: the maximum number of FAFSA schools is 10, so you're fine with 6.
I found this out the hard way. Dh did the FASFA and he didn't bother to read all the details--just asked my son to rank the schools. He put an out of state college as #1 so grant aid came back calculated at $0! Fortunately Ds and I found out how to change it and the in state schools still estimated for grant aid.
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I would never stop attending church. I would probably just find a rather large one where it's easier to come in and be less noticed.
It seems every family I've known who stopped attending church ended up having family problems, getting caught up in some extreme doctrine, or having children who seem totally unable to make it in the real world.
I know it's just examples, but it's been overwhelmingly my experience.
Can you explain what you mean by 'family problems'.
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Thanks, Myra. I think I will just present it to Dh as an option. Ds is giving a speech Friday night and I think he'd better go to class and then practice his speech.
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One of the universities my Ds is considering is offering a workshop this weekend. Ds has a class that day and can't go. Is it weird if Dh goes alone? Should I see if Ds can make up the class and go with Dh? Ds has a large scholarship to this school which may make it possible for him to attend, depending on other factors.
I keep going back and forth on this and wondering if it is worth giving up a Saturday or if it is mostly going to be info we already know.
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Drat. One more thing I'll have to remember 4 years from now to just randomly do. UGH. The only (ONLY) reason I really wish I could send my kids to school is so that someone else would have to keep track of all these things. Ay yi yi. (Off to put another note on my extensive pile of notes of "things to do to get a kid into college.").
Well, I'm glad to hear that you guys are mostly done. We haven't even started yet as my oldest will be entering 9th grade next year. I'm trying to get the ducks all in a row from the get-go and taking lots and lots and lots of notes on all this detail work.
If you use the common app it will say it is required if the school wants it. The schools that didn't want it only listed final report as required. We just wanted to be certain.
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Mid-year report. I just heard about those a couple of weeks ago from hanging out on the college board and reading.
Quick derailing question: how do you know when to send that? Does the college ask for it? Or should I make sure to put a note somewhere that in the middle of my kids' senior years I send this report to the colleges whether asked for or not? Do I have to be on the ball for this one, or wait until colleges request it?
Call the colleges and ask. Most of Ds's colleges did NOT want it unless he wanted/needed to show them grades went up significantly. We might still send one b/c he is getting an award this weekend (which he dos not know about).
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Oh my gosh, yes!
From October to a week ago, our oldest child moved in and out of our home TWICE! The house was a mess with having to relocate a room and finally getting a storage unit. The ensuing chaos and drama made for a rough first part of the school year with the additional work of applications on top of it. There is no way we could have made it without the advice I received here on the Common Application, although I was certainly embarrassed at some of the questions I was asking. It felt like we were so behind.
I hope everything has settled down for you and your family. :grouphug:
Thanks. Some of our life circumstances are not going to settle down anytime soon and are really testing my patience. The college stuff is settling down though, and that is a relief! I can relate to feeling embarrassed by questions. I'm going to tell you--some of your questions here helped me and saved me the embarrassment! I guess I owe you!
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Head thunk! No. I just sort of thought we were out of luck.
ETA: At that point in time, ds was rewriting his personal essay for the third time and I was in a panic over the Counselor Recommendation. We turned in all of his applications except one on Dec. 29th. I think we'll just send it in and see what happens.
Dh and I would absolutely love it if he were on our side of the country and San Diego is one of my favorite places. However, he is really leaning towards D.C. if he can get enough aid.
Well this post made my day. You sound just like me and Ds with his applications. We were struggling to get everything done and I felt like everyone around us had this amazing plan and did all their applications so much earlier, worked on their essays and course descriptions during the summer, etc. We did a lot of things that were against the advice of friends--including using mommy's email address for the first 3 applications and not using a new 'college only' email address. Not on purpose. We just had life interfere and, frankly, it was overwhelming. It got done, but there was some panicking along the way!
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Jenn, we missed the deadline for University of San Diego. I think it was Dec. 1st and we weren't ready. It's still a thought because it has a lot that he wants, but I have no clue what chances for aid would be at this late date.
It was disconcerting to discover that for the most part, it is cheaper for Sailor Dude to go east. He interviewed with Wooster and really liked them, but is having a difficult time getting over his fear of being landlocked, especially now that he is a newly certified scuba diver. :tongue_smilie:
A glass of wine is good. Sadly, I discovered an affinity for Tito's vodka while I was working on all the Common App. paperwork.
Did you still apply? We also missed a December 1st deadline and Ds wanted to still try. He submitted the application and still was accepted and with a merit scholarship too. Application was a little over a month late. The college does state that they still consider applicants if there are still spots available.
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Are they aware you have two children? Maybe they are so fixated on the fact that your ds got into college they totally forgot you have another in school! Or maybe they just think you'll have a little more time once one is out of the house. Hmm. I think a quick explanation/response is fine, only if you want to give one.
I'm not sure if some of your to-do list is universal, so they may just have no idea. Like, "investigating financial aid" in my mind means filling out the FAFSA or such and waiting for a response. I'm not trying to be an oblivious jerk, just saying how things register in my mind and how others might be making assumptions. I don't know what "final reports to colleges" means. I'm seriously oblivious.
I have reminded a couple of people that Dd does still exist! I am wondering if people just assume she will do whatever Ds did, not thinking that she is sooo different. I am really not sure what I am going to do for her for high school yet. She learns differently and is just a whole different ball of wax. I'll figure it out, but it will take time. I'm not going to be able to just do the same thing.
Yes, you are right. My list may not be universal. They probably are making assumptions, and that was why I started out explaining. Now I think that was a bad idea. It's true that once you start explaining, that just seems to invite people to want more explanations later, or to argue with you in some way. I just have this natural desire to want to educate people. With my mom, that is definitely a boundary thing --and maybe with a few other people too. That is a valid point that was raised by other posters. I think I have let a few people impose on my boundaries. I find that I can be very direct, almost blunt at times when I try to enforce boundaries. Then I am afraid I am going to really hurt feelings and don't say enough. I am really good at thinking of what I should have said after the fact, of course.
Final report = final grades for senior year. A surprising number of adults have suggested Ds can slack off and relax now. I guess b/c that is how it was when they were done applying. I just found out none of the schools want a mid year report, so I don't have to submit that.
Financial aid issues--whether or not the colleges will 'stack' scholarships. Which ones will. Weighing the options based on finances (which can only be guessed at until the FAFSA response). Deciding if the scholarship applications are worth the time they will take (if the college will not 'stack') b/c deadlines for the scholarships are coming up and I have various clubs emailing me reminders b/c they want to have a kid to give the money to. I am almost done investigating the outside scholarships and how they will affect his scholarships directly from the schools. Ds is working to pay his way and he wants to be debt free if he can. He also knows we cannot help much. Dh's job loss and drastic change in income has been a real game changer.
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The Secret Shame of Middle Class Americans
in The Chat Board
Posted
I had a very similar reaction to the article and posts. We are in a similar situation but Dh is still working a job that pays about HALF of his salary before he lost his job. We went from middle class to low income in 2 years. And, I will admit, I make decisions others would judge harshly. We do drive out of state for trips even though we owe money. We are going to owe money for a long time, but my aunt in her 70's may not be alive when and if we have our debt paid off and I can justify the cost of visiting her. People win out over money in my book. Otoh, Ds is going to the college that offered him free tuition, so we do the best we can. I spent $5 last year to go to the movies with my mom. Many people would say I had no business to spend that $5. Whatever. .. trust me, it was necessary for my own sanity. The older I get the more I realize I really can't judge decisions made by others. It's hard to know all of the circumstances and a lot of what has been said is true. We live in strange times when what is normal to most is spending money all the time. How can it be otherwise? We live in a consumer economy.