Rhondabee
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Posts posted by Rhondabee
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I was wondering if anyone here exclusively follows Susan's advice as set forth in her book. ...
There seems to be a wide range of curricula used/sold on this forum and it made me wonder if anyone here was using WTM as a guide and how far you "strayed." And why.
...I believe in following a child's natural learning interests (within reason) ...
Any comment? I am such a newb, so if this has been discussed already, please link me to the thread. ThankS!!!
I know you're going to look at my current siggy and think, "Whoa, woman, why are *YOU* here?"
But, I did follow WTM almost exclusively for the last 4 1/2 years. (Except science - I am just a science failure, as anyone who knows me can readily attest to) I will say first off that there are more recommendations in the WTM routines than my average kids can do in a week, so right off the bat, if we were going to stick to the time frame given in the WTM, we were going to have to tweak the routine. (or, take longer, which is what I was doing at first - big mistake - HUGE mistake!!! totally not necessary.)
So, you take what's "best" out of WTM and leave the rest. Of course, what's "best" will differ from person to person. (And which edition of WTM you're reading. :) )
And, incidentally, that's why someone can take Sonlight and use it in a WTM-ish manner. (I did for a season.) And someone else can use TOG in their own WTM-inspired homeschool. (Or insert your own favorite curriculum here....)
As for why I changed for this next year?...
My oldest son was in 5th grade when we started homeschooling, and needed to straddle the grammar and logic stages for a while, so I planned my own history and literature (using WTM as my only guide). And, I never dreamed that I wouldn't continue doing so, even though last year, during his 9th grade year, I wound up using Beautiful Feet and TruthQuest to help me plan more of a living books plus primary source high school history than WTM recommends. (In the book, anyway. I happen to think I was doing pretty much what was suggested in this article about starting WTM "late", found elsewhere on this website.) Anyway... major health issues, and a family business issue, have necessitated that I reconsider my priorities. I only have so much time, and I have three children to homeschool (at three *very* different stages, none-the-less).
I know on the surface it looks like I'm "straying from WTM" so very, very far. (Addressing 7th grade specifically here.) In reality, all I'm doing is paying someone to plan history for me. I'm the master; it's the tool. I can still choose what I *do* with the history selections they have mapped out for me. I can still dictate that one history spine will be outlined each week, for example. They even add in "Book Basket" time - which is "Go to the library and find extra reading on a topic of the student's choice" - which is directly from WTM. (and which Colleen in NS will tell you is NOT my strong suit!) But, maybe this year, by bringing home a huge basketful of books, it will be - LOL! (And even if they *didn't* add that in - *I* could!)
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ETA: And, outlining isn't even the "biggie" of logic stage learning once you've survived logic stage with one child. The "biggie" is helping your child learn to think abstractly. To put away "childish things", black-and-white, us-vs.-them; to learn to see cause-and-effect beyond the obvious. To start to see the bigger patterns in life (and literature). And even to start applying the wisdom that he learns in the theory of the "classroom" to the rather mundane existence of his everyday life - and seeing that all the heroes and villains of life (real & imagined) led rather ordinary lives as well. And that life is all about the accumulated choices we make each day of our rather ordinary lives.
Boy, how's that for waxing philosophical on a rainy Tuesday afternoon?
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I'll keep my WTM Literature (which is, in my opinion, the greatest strength of WTM), thank you very much. They have art and music scheduled for me - something I did very well with one year. Yes - one out of four. But I didn't do it *exactly* like WTM suggested - who could, really? (I'm pretty sure SWB doesn't.) I was inspired by the plan there, but it's too ambitious. We're not really high-falootin' cultured types. We're just rednecks, really.
I guess my point is - now I know what "works" for us out of WTM - so now I know how to take someone else's stuff and mold it. For example, I used Rod & Staff and WTM Writing with my oldest through Middle School. Then, last year I used IEW for Writing (which is also a WTM rec). And, I could see how, in the end, they both lead to the same place. And, I can see AB&C are R&S's strengths and CD&E are IEW's strengths. And, now I can use both kind of simultaneously. But, I wouldn't tell a first time homeschooler, "You need to get R&S and you need to get IEW and you need to do them BOTH or you're going to FAIL!!!" No,no, no!!! - you need to choose just one and master it. Choose whichever speaks to you.
And, I think most people (if WTM speaks to them, and they choose that) start really close to the WTM recs, master the "best" (what works for them), and then loosen up and branch out to find other things that also work. (Or, they give up altogether - LOL!)
Seriously, some people do fine doing WTM all by itself, and that's great. Maybe they're natural teachers. (I admit that I happen to be.) Or, maybe they were lucky enough to start with just one child in Kindergarten and build slowly.
But, there are some wonderful curriculum out there that take the basic principles of classical education (which, after all, aren't truly written in stone) and apply them in ways which are a bit more user-friendly. (Sonlight, for example, does a great job at teaching *how* to teach, along with scheduling the assignments. I think from reading posts here that TOG does the same thing. These curriculum are more than just "assignments" for the students.) I am so thankful to have found a pre-planned curriculum to use for next year, or I really would have had to have put my kids in public school!!! I simply could not have continued planning it all out myself.
Lastly, even if someone isn't using their curriculum through the lens of WTM (as I'm planning to do), if they are on this board, you can almost rest-assured they are striving for excellence.
ETA: I'm sorry for going "over the top" here. I answered someone new to homeschooling on the high school board, trying not to step on her brand-new toes and crush her spirit - and she just completely dissed my answer as if I didn't know what I was talking about, and I'm guessing it's because she looked at my signature and judged me as a "non WTM-purist" who dares to post here anyway. So, I admit, I'm hurt and defensive. Sorry if I took that out on you. I just wanted to save you from that "strictly by-the-book" mind-set that so many of us tend to have when we first start trying to follow WTM - that's all.
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What you might do is to read two textbooks, one liberal & one conservative; that way you can see two ways of "brainwashing." It's nearly impossible to get history exactly the way it was, of course, even with living books. Or you can listen to lectures with one slant & read a text with the other.
OK - I'm pretty sure with Notgrass & BJU as the spine textbook, the conservative Christian viewpoint will be well represented. ;)
Do you have any suggestions for something with a liberal slant? We'll be doing World history specifically next year, but US history and Government the year after.
Thanks for your help!
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In light of recent threads on historical perspective in history books,
Can I be a huge bother, and ask you to link to the threads you're thinking of?
The reason I ask is that we are (of necessity) moving from a living books multi-view non-curriculum way of doing history into more of a textbook-ish, "this is the way it was" presentation of history, and I have a low-level but definite underlying sense of dread that we will be ... not "brain-washed"... but mis-led possibly...? I don't know.
Anyway...I would be interest in learning more about this, but haven't really known how to go about it, really. I *have* to teach with the materials that God has given me peace about. I trust him. I also know that I have to educate myself and not just blindly go wherever one particular author or curriculum happens to lead.
(Off topic: I think that's what really troubles me about next year - I like using several authors; even when we used SOTW, we supplemented with other authors. No one historian should be the end-all, be-all source.)
Thanks!
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When I worked at home, I worked in a spare bedroom. That meant when we lived in a 3-bedroom apartment, that the boys shared a bedroom. But, actually, they were quite small then and preferred to share a bedroom at that age.
When we bought the house we're in now, we intentionally bought a house that had a 4th bedroom knowing that there were times that I needed to work late into the night. And there were other nights that I received faxes well after midnight, but needed to *not* be working.
So, I guess it depends on what type of work you're doing (and when you wind up doing it). But, personally, I wouldn't put my "office" in my bedroom or any room which might be used by the family for recreation (watching movies or having family time) when I might need to be working. I liked being able to shut the door and walk away. (Though you may not have that option.)
Also, if you have a room that is dedicated exclusively to your business (I'm assuming it's a business you own), then you qualify for tax deductions on your mortgage and utilities.
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If he didn't have another language in mind, then I'd say, definitely, go with what's easiest and cheapest. Sorry, I'm not usually so blunt. When I reread that this morning I was a little shocked.
:tongue_smilie:
Well, really, the Spanish was *my* idea because I figured it would be an easy-A after two years of Latin. (And, it was here, after all.)
I guess that is the problem. I tinkered where I probably shouldn't have, and now I need to re-tinker when I should have just signed him up for Latin 3 back when he said he was willing to take it even though he didn't want to, he really wanted to take Greek - but I thought that was just a pipe dream because I couldn't find Biblical Greek that lasted for 3 years - and I knew that Greek was just going to be *so* *hard* and we were already going through a really HARD time (not homeschool-related) anyway - and I just wanted life to be easy for a while.
(big sigh) Vent over. Taking my :chillpill::chillpill:'s for the day.
(Now it will be my turn to come back and be shocked at a post. LOL)
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Wonderful! Your song illustrates perfectly why I need 2 bathrooms. One for the girls and one for the boys (I have two who have yet to hit teenage years. I could add a verse to your song about pee around the base of the toilet and toads in the sink. Once I came home to find a bass swimming in my bathtub - 'cuz they wanted me to see it)
Oh, you should!
My friend is encouraging me to make a video for YouTube. We could add your verse...Sounds good!
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The boys both play guitar, and we have friends at church that are excellent musicians (and share my wry wit thanfully). So, I'm hoping we can actually rig something up and do something just before Halloween. (We've never done a video before - should be fun!
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That is why I want a house with 3 bathrooms before my dss become teens lol. My poor dd does not need to be exposed to that. :D
WE ******HAVE******* THREE - YES 3!!! - count them 3 - bathrooms.
(deep breaths, deep breaths.....)
But mine has the best shower.
:001_huh:
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Probably because the OP said he didn't really want to study it. Studying it just to study it when he really wants to study something else is, IMHO, a waste of time.
:001_smile:
Thank you - I needed to hear that.
(spanish would be easier...)
(and cheaper, too...)
(but, you're right!)
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My concern is that before he graduates more colleges will make three years of the same language study a requirement. I don't want him to miss out on opportunities because I didn't push for the 3 years of Latin.
I would check some college of interest websites for their current requirements.
That's my thought.
Even though we only have 3 more years til graduation, and even though *right now* the only colleges that have requirements listed on the internet only require 2 years, you just never know...
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WARNING: Part of this is slightly crude. That is the danger of having teenaged boys. If potty humor offends you, and you will think less of me forever, just go ahead and place me on your ignore list now and don't read further...
I do solemnly swear that all which follows was actually inspired by true happenings in my home. (Unfortunately, I did not *intend* for my home to be so dirty. I just intended to have children. They were male. The dirt came with them.)
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Think "Weird Al Yankovitch" and sing along to "Hotel California."
("On a dark desert highway...")
On a dark Monday mornin' - Coffee cup in my hand
Nauseous smell of Axe body spray - Reaches me where I stand
And still my stomach is sayin' it's ti---me to go----
But my blasted teen-aged boy is in my bath room don't you know?
("Mirrors on the Ceiling...")
Soap scum on the ceiling? - Blues, grays, and greens - so nice!
The soap says, "We are all just prisoners here - in the drain device."
And in the master's throne there - the remains of last night's feast (sorry!)
You can stab it with that plunger thing - But you'll never flush the beast!
("Welcome to the Hotel California...")
Welcome to the Bathroom of my teenage boy, yeah!
Such a lovely face - emerges from this grotesque place.
There ain't much room in the bathroom of my teenage boy, yeah.
But bacteria and e-coli - Assemble here to multiply.
Guitar Riff
(And still those voices are calling from far away...)
And still those girls keep calling him e-very day
Wake me up the middle-of-the-night
and make me want to say-hey
Have you seen the bathroom of my teenage boy, yeah?
How CAN such a lovely face - emerge from such a gro-tesque place?
He's livin' it up in the bathroom of my teenage boy, yeah.
But I gotta say I'm thinkin' of you - So I'm gonna tell ya what you should do
Disinfectant - ammonia - Surface cleanser with bleach
These are all the tools of my trade - I've taught him how to use each
"Relax, Mom, I've cleaned it!" - Just a LIE I believed...
But you can check out anytime you like
- So LEAVE, girl, LEAVE!!!
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Who needs Classical Writing, huh?:lol::lol::lol: JK- JK!!!!
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:I was going to start the new year last week, but I just didn't have the gusto to tackle it yet.
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We'll still do things on top of reading, but reading is why I started homeschooling!
I saw (on another thread) that someone was starting "the new school year" on July 4th (and they were American - not Canadian - LOL!). I thought, "Good grief, we haven't even finished Math from the *old* school year, yet!!!!" :lol:
(Of course, I just realized today that we were still doing Geometry at Christmas, and switched back to Algebra in January. Yikes! I guess we're doing pretty good considering!)
My sons online classes won't start until September, and even though the public schools will start the first week in August, I think we will wait. Maybe not all the way til September - but, maybe so.
...
And, I agree.
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(There should be a quote from Colleen inserted here - obviously I need another cup of coffee - see my other post!)
Completely Off-topic - Hey, you greatly simplified your siggy while I've just un-simplified mine all-out! LOL
How are you, friend?
Guess by now you've figured out the way to get DH to help is to get so sick he has to, right?
(wink, wink!)
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Thanks, Pam, for sharing your thoughts today.
My next year's curriculum isn't "reading only" necessarily but it isn't my "Ideal" and I am not super-adrenaline-pumped excited about next year. I haven't even looked at it, to be honest. (And I am beginning to realize how much I depended on that adrenaline rush of summer planning - no amount of coffee seems to compensate - LOL!)
I'm still inputting all my mom-planned reading assignments for last-year's history, actually, and I am in awe of everything that we read! And chiding myself that we didn't write enough. And that I didn't think I could handle planning another year myself (I know given my circumstances, I couldn't). So, I needed this today. I needed to hear that it's okay to not "do the best". Or even to do *my* best.
(sigh)
Back to doing "what I can" ~
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My oldest was in precisely the same position as your ds is now. I wanted him to pursue Latin III, he wanted Spanish. He was a rising 10th grader. I let it go, as there were other difficult classes on his plate that year. He and I both regret it. Dd has since gone on to Latin III. So I vote LATIN III. And the best part is, he still has time to complete 4 semesters of Spanish through dual-enrollment (equivalent to 4 years of hs).
HTH,
Lisa
Thanks, guys! Just to know I'm not the only one who's ever faced this is priceless!!!
I know he wasn't *super* excited about Spanish, so maybe I can tempt him to continue the Latin with the prospect of the Greek. (Weird kid, I know!) Thanks for the heads-up, Rhea!
Thankfully, in a strange turn of events, I think his classes will actually be somewhat easier for him this year (at least, I think history and lit will be more manageable for him - mom won't be "overplanning" them - LOL!). Now for the hard sell....
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Actually, my rising 10th grader will submit to Latin 3 *if* I tell him he must. But, he does not enjoy Latin. (He made a 96% in Latin 2, so he *is* good at it, even if he doesn't enjoy it.) I have it on good authority from a "preferred poster" here ;) LOL! that he really should continue with Latin, but I guess I want some more input. How much say should a parent have over a high schooler's classes?
Should I *make* him take a class (Latin 3 in this case) just because I know what will look good, and I know he is ignorant? (This question is the real crux of the poll - not the validity of the Latin vs. the Spanish if you catch my drift.)
So, since I don't know how to do a real poll, could you post quickly, "Latin 3," if you think he should go ahead and take Latin 3 next year. We would continue with Memoria Press.
Or, if you think I should let him take a modern language, please post "Spanish." That's most likely what we will do if I allow this option, since we already have the Rosetta Stone here.
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Lastly, what he *really* wants is to take Greek, but I am clueless as to where he could take this (and continue past one year). So, I am kind of saving that for Senior year. If you know an online option that would continue for 3 years (and be high school level - not college) please post that, or pm me.
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Thought I'd add:
ETA: Another way to "winnow down" the possibilities is to choose the selections in SWB's "Well Educated Mind" coupled with the selections that are complete (not excerpted) in the Norton anthology. Though, the WEM will be heavy on Autobiography, if I'm remembering correctly, so I would choose one (and you might look on Amazon or the library or in the Norton for an abridgement of one mentioned in WEM - but pre-read it for "readability"). The things that are complete in the Norton will get you the smaller things (like Everyman) that are quicker, perhaps easier, reads. But, really and truly, if your daughter is more "average" and isn't ready for "college in high school", I would start with the 6th grade list and move on from there.
I don't know if I would do the 6th grade list 1st semester, and then do the high school list 2nd semester. Or, if I would, for example, read the Nye Beowulf (which is excellent in its own right), and then the Heaney Beowulf right after. Probably I'd lean toward doing the two together, but I don't know if my child would go for that. The advantage of doing all the 6th grade list together is that then you could do so much Shakespeare 2nd semester - and not have to read any of the adapted versions for that - just go straight to the plays themselves.
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I am planning on having my dd take a Career Assessment Test. Are there any recommendations?
:bigear:
The Continuing Ed arm of our local State University used to offer a wonderful Career Assessment service, but obviously it's been axed - and I was coming on to ask as well!
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I am not going to answer the question the way you are anticipating.
The following is a quote from Susan Wise Bauer, taken from the article "Starting in the Middle: Beginning Classical Education with an Older Child," which can be found in its entirety by following the link:
For the study of literature from 400-present, use the lists we suggest for grades 6-8 (pp.342-352 of The Well-Trained Mind). These lists contain classic literature as well as a few abridgements; among other texts, sixth graders read the beginning of the Inferno and a Shakespeare play; seventh graders read Gulliver’s Travels and “The Rime of the Ancient Mariner”; eighth graders read Stevenson, Wells, and Shaw. Use the abridgements on these lists (retellings of Beowulf, Chaucer, de Cervantes, and so on) as springboards into the study of the original works themselves. After your student is familiar with the storyline of Beowulf or The Faerie Queen, he will be less intimidated by the classic stories themselves. And challenge your high school student to try a few works off the high school list as the year progresses.
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If your daughter has been in public school, then I would guess she hasn't read the books on the logic stage lists (unless it was a much better public school than what we have here - LOL!). Really, if you just did the books on 6th-8th grade lists, that would probably look pretty good on a high school transcript.
Specifically, for Middle Ages, there are also some historical fiction (Robin Hood and such) in the supplementary section that you will also probably enjoy.
If you want some more help with literary analysis, Hewitt Homeschooling has a British Medieval Literature Pack, as well as two Shakespeare packs (too much to do in one year - you'd want to pick and choose). Another option if you want/need some hand-holding (tho' it won't have as much analysis, and it will have more historical fiction (and less literature written in the era) is Smarr Literature.
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I forgot to add SuperStar Student from The Teaching Company. Honestly kinda boring, but effective in method.
I won't say SuperStar Student is riveting - LOL!
But, it gave my DS the confidence that he *could* go back to public school(or off to college) and succeed. This was huge to me, as I think he was honestly afraid that he would be "lost" in the system and not know what to do. That's not the reason why I want him to want to home school iykwim.
Thanks for the book rec~
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I just received my WTM recommended books for my dd13 to begin her first year of rhetoric stage learning. I'm looking through HOTMW and the WTM great books recommendations and trying to see how it all fits together.
I've also been looking at this website with interest.
I can see myself becoming overwhelmed with all the possibilities.
Is there anyone that is using HOTMW and trying to follow the WTM recommendations for the rhetoric stage? I'd love to hear how you are dividing the book, what you are planning for 1100-1500, and which great books you are including.
Thanks!
May I ask what your daughter has done up til now? That would be helpful in knowing what to recommend.
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I don't think the Georgia Virtual Academy will work for you because it is set up for the public school kids, not for homeschoolers, and I think you can only take 2 free classes, then you would have to pay for others.
I hope you find something that works (and soon!).
Martha
(ETA: OH, I see. You're not saying that homeschoolers can't take classes, just that they're not free. I would expect that there would be a fee for high school level classes.)
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Thank you Martha. I have not joined a local homeschool group yet. I am so new to this and we have not "officially" started school yet. I have spent the past several months picking out our curriculum, getting the house moved around, etc. My sister was just kind of a bonus thrown in at the last moment, so I have not got her life planned out yet, lol.
If I were to sign up for the school in Macon, would I have to go often? I live just north of Atlanta and would not mind having to do the drive on occasion if necessary. Also, the school that would have to use in FL as a cover, will cost @ $1200 for the year plus curriculum, I'd prefer to spend less if possible.
Thank you.
There is the Georgia Virtual School - I don't know anything about it, other than that it exists.
There is a huge homeschool group (or used to be) at Woodstock First Baptist Church. (Woodstock is in Cherokee County. WFBC is on the east side - close-ish to the Fulton County line.) I've heard that there is a newer group now meeting in Towne Lake, but I can't remember the name of the group.
Southeast Homeschool Expo will be at the Galleria (in Cobb County) July 30-31. Hopefully there will be some more helpful information there.
I know it must be overwhelming with most school systems here starting the first week of August. But, if it helps, we are in Georgia, and we won't be starting until September. My son's online classes aren't starting until then, my parents wanted to take the boys off in August, and I am simply not ready to start yet! So, try not to feel rushed. Take your time finding what you need.
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Thanks for the replys-- they both help! I've printed out the schedule from the website, but it looks like it doesn't cover most of the modules. I guess we will just add on the extras that the DIVE CD covers. Is that what most end up doing?
I feel like I'm a bit behind in this. My dd had decided she wanted to go to school, so I hadn't been planning then after she tried most of a year she decided she missed actual learning and wanted to homeschool the rest of her years through high school.....
Thanks,
Dawn
The DIVE is not designed to "teach Apologia Physical science". DIVE Physical Science is an introduction to - or Integrated - Chemistry and Physics. Apologia Physical Science is a brief intro to Chemistry and Physics, but about half the year is spent on Earth Science. So, the two courses are very different. The DIVE covers much more Chemistry and Physics than the Apologia; and the Apologia covers much more Earth Science.
I would choose one or the other. The deciding factor in our house was, "Do you *really* think you want to major in science? If so, we'll do the DIVE and try to do the SAT-II tests after Bio, Chem, & Physics."
The DIVE Physical Science will prepare your student for the DIVE Chem & Physics, which with just a few extra weeks study will enable your student to take the SAT-II or CLEP test. With Apologia, according to what I've read on this board, you really need to take the advanced class (another year of study) to get a really good grade on those tests.
hth
Interesting American history reading
in High School and Self-Education Board
Posted
The thread is gone????
Oh, my...of course it is. I always miss the fun threads.
:lol:
What I'll need in reality is narrative and easy-to-read if I'm going to get my son to read it. Although often I've found it helps even if only I have read something (and he hasn't), and I can just add in a brief commentary and dialogue with my DS about it.
I'll look up the books mentioned here in this thread and Howard Zinn at the library to start. If you know of any others, that'd be great, too.
Thanks, Tina!