Laughingmommy
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Posts posted by Laughingmommy
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Two weeks ago, I overheard my 2.5-year-old telling a story to some dolls that was from some wordy picture book I read her sister (4) months ago. My oldest would regale us in the car on long trips with full-length renditions of movies complete with dialogue and impersonated voices ("Monsters, Inc." esp.). My second daughter said the s-poop word as one of her first words even though I was careful not to say it around her after she was a baby. She remembered it for months, and at around one, she used the word, appropriately, I might add. It was like her second word or something like that.
Of course, I think my kids are brilliant. I think all kids are brilliant!... compared to us dummy grown-ups! :lol:
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My 9-year-old did the chap. 1 in BA 3A the last couple of weekends, just puttering around the house, messing around. It was really really fun for her and for me. Kinda expensive fun, but definitely fun.
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Don't sell ANYTHING! You have no idea how often you will want to reference a curriculum or just use a page. Or THINK you want to use it again, only to decide AGAIN that you don't want to use it, but you need to SEE it to know that.
:iagree:
Every now and then I want to declutter and sell things off. My husband's been great about encouraging me to keep the stuff, unless I really have no use for it at all. Like Hunter said, sometimes you need to look at stuff to think things through.
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Wow! It sounds great! A bunch of things you are doing sound interesting and I'd like to ask more, but I don't want to derail this thread.
Derail away! ;)
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We used to belong to an unschooling community, and a little over a year ago, I found my kids intellectually very bored. So, I toughened up and decided to give them some exposure to structured academics. Now, over a year later, I realized that I'm not an unschooler, that that label doesn't even have meaning for me. As a homeschooling parent, I trust the child and follow their lead. I support their intellectual growth in a loving, gentle, hands-on way. I've got no friends to talk to about homeschooling now, so please someone give me feedback and encouragement for my super duper totally awesome lineup for my future 5th grader and future K-er.
For my 5th: Trisms History Makers (2001 version), which should take care of history and give a good historical context to everything else. Then BFSU, MCT LA (with the 6 lit. guides). We're also doing McGuffey to read aloud 'cause it's great for getting her to read slowly and enunciate (she seems to have a speech impediment still, at age 9, though I think she's getting close to kicking it). I'm also going to do Brave Writer, Writer's Jungle with her and a friend of hers, maybe as a beginning of a writer's group. For math, we've got a combo LOF, BA, and Zarraco's Primary Challenge Math. She can get discouraged easily, so I'll probably throw in MM, Singapore Math, and lots of math games to reinforce stuck areas. I got a lot of puzzles too, Mind Benders, Perplexors, etc. Then Lively Latin vol. 1. Then for art, we're doing Artistic Pursuits together and she likes the Draw Write Now on her own. And for music, we're doing Piano Adventures and recorder. I'm gonna do my darnest to get her to art museums at least twice a year (our current average is less). And hiking and tennis. Swimming would be my fantasy for her.
For my 11-year-old who goes to school and might decide to continue in school, Irasshai for Japanese and Art of Problem Solving.
For my 4-year-old, I started doing some math and phonics with her: Singapore Math, Miquon, MEP Reception; Spell to Write and Read (that's just for me so far, to learn what to say when she asks me about words). And I Can Play Piano. And the Artistic Pursuits book for preschoolers.
I've also got Drawing with Children by Mona Brooks that I can't wait to try do. Lots of science books I'm afraid of. And a Family Math book that I cracked open 8 or 9 years ago. We played one game from it. I even have the game pieces in a zip lock stuck in there. (it's almost like a time capsule!) If I get brave, I might take the kids to the regional park here and steal some tadpoles. It's totally forbidden, but I just really need to watch a frog grow once before I die, you know?
As for organization, I've got ample bookcase space. I've got Proclick, binders, sheet protectors. I've got card stock, art paper, and watercolor paper. Beeswax crayons, colored pencils, calligraphy pens. Wet erase markers for the glass sliding doors, colored chalk for chalkboard drawings. Even some wool roving that I tried to felt a few months back but failed really miserably. Kite paper to fold into window stars. Plastic beads. Tangrams, cuisinaire rods, MUS blocks (the kids like these better 'cause they stack and you can stick your fingers in them to hold them up), polydron sets, kapla blocks, and Judy Clocks. I've got Signing Time, Wee Sing, Teach Me Japanese, and lots and lots of poetry books.
I was trying out planning 6 weeks at a time, but I think I'm going to ditch it. With everything simplified so much in my head, I think planning by the week might work out better. I've found that the single biggest factor in getting stuff done is making time for it. This means no over-doing socializing. My dd9 needs time to herself, and when she's tired she isn't into thinking.
I'm so scared, though. This homeschooling things would be our WHOLE world! Our weeks used to be centered around the never-ending unschooling playdates we had during the week. Now that we're intentionally focusing on academic work and REJECTING playdates..... I think we're going to totally lose our community. Please reassure me... it's okay, right? I mean, we're all really happy with our academic fun. It just feels so lonely to me. All advice appreciated!!! :)
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MCT.
I like FLL, but I can't deny that MCT is more fun, and my kids picked up all the info much faster than they were with FLL. In the long run, I think they're equally effective, but My kids definitely prefer fast and fun.
We do use WWE along with MCT. They have very different takes on writing instruction, and I think they're both important.
Totally agree.
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Yes!
THANK YOU!!!!! I think I'm in heaven! So I can use a laminator to make covers for proclick or comb binder notebooks?! Wow! That's too good to be true! :lol:
Thanks for letting me know!
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Can you hole punch things you've laminated?
Pei
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Thanks. I will. I was gifted as a child. Had my own TV show at 7 years old, reading out loud to other kids (once changing voices 11 times in the story), interviewing firefighters, playing the piano, dancing, etc. Elementary school was a breeze.
Off to look at 2E..
Umm... yeah.... you should definitely read that book then. I think it's safe to say you're a likely candidate! ;)
Pei
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Back to my point---if people *would* read John Holt, Patrick Farenga, (especially Farenga) Alison McKee, David Albert (who recommends Singapore for math btw), Teri Brown (Christian unschooling), Linda Dobson, Mary Griffith, or any of the articles at HEM, then they would begin to see what unschooling *the homeschooling method* was about and begin to stop lumping all the more radical ways of *parenting* into it...they would see that these "founders" of unschooling really do have their children DOING and not just watching tv, that they have daily routines, expectations, even buy curriculum without a lot of input from their kids. I made the decision to use Saxon math after reading about it in The Unschooling Handbook ;) (which by the way had no parenting advice in it whatsoever). I even remember there being a few sections about limiting media---:lol:
This is so great! You really separated the issues well. I'm realizing that I was greatly influenced by reading unschooling authors, though at the time, my kids were still babies, so I didn't really digest the parts about curriculum. Though I didn't read Holt, I remember reading many of the other names on your list. Thanks for the reference to HEM. I see I'll be spending the rest of today there reading. I can't believe I can remain an unschooler. I was secretly wondering if maybe it was time for me to kick myself out of the unschooling club because of our high engagement with academics now. Thank you so much for the history lesson and the list of names to explore. Thank you!
Pei
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Take a look at Timberdoodle Core Packages.
What great curriculum packages!
Pei
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You ladies are hilarious with your "shiny things" and "squirrels"!
Thanks for cracking me up!
Pei
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:bigear:
My daughter did that too, reading ahead in Grammar Island. I thought we were ahead of the game until we did Practice Island, and I saw that she didn't actually read for the grammar parts. Just the stories. That said, it was all good, 'cause I don't think they really need to understand every word in the book. She's in Grammar Town now, and we're working through it together, and it's great. She didn't need Grammar Island at all. I'm glad I didn't make a stink about absorbing more information. It was great exposure.
She did ask me for more grammar. But I think it's fun for her now. She's got parts of speech down solid. Everything else is sort of solid too (well... not sure about prepositions yet). We're doing Analytical Grammar and KISS Grammar for fun. Analyzing a sentence is like a word puzzle now. Soon, we're going to pick a paragraph from A Wrinkle in Time and analyze it a lot. I want to show the kids, with one paragraph, various aspects of literary analysis. I think my kids will get a real kick out of analyzing real sentences from a book they really read (instead of excerpts).
Pei
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But all things considered, I would much prefer to know what person X actually means when they call themselves a Y kind of home educator.
That preference applies to any parent, or educator that actively self labels with the intent to distinguish themselves as a distinct sub category within the general label (parent, home educator, teacher) that describes us both.
If it is important enough to them to distinguish themselves via the self application of a label that marks them as "distinct sub set" , I'd at least like a fighting chance of being able to understand why making that distinction has value to them and generally that means I need to know what the distinction actually is.
I wonder how much people actually reflect on their conceptions of themselves. It seems that all too often, there are a few who are vocal about their ideas within a community, and everyone else just repeats what is said, assuming that agreement is adequate. How many people really consider their context, their vantage point, their own unique circumstances that necessitate their own unique belief system? I wonder how many persons X call themselves a Y kind of home educator without a real understanding of what that entails.
On the other hand, I've never read John Holt, I "unschooled" before ever hearing the term. I was ecstatic when I found the label 'cause finally, there were others like me. But when I actually joined the local community, the picture was not so rosy. Maybe I should just stick to being "Pei" homeschooling the "Pei of the Day" Way. 'Cause you know, my beliefs are not fixed and neither is my practice. Obviously, WTM resonated with me BIG TIME for me to be on this forum. What's THAT all about?!? :D
Pei
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D. Somebody who views coercion as a whole slew of activities, up to and including the potential for children to read their parent's mind and fall back in damaged horror because there is a vague expectation lurking in the parental head. Prioritises a lack of all and any coercion (however remote) over fractions, due to their very real belief that coercion causes irreparable harm to their child's ability to learn/develop as they should.
Label wise A and B are clearly not unschoolers, while C and D probably would identify as unschoolers.
OK. D sounds like the best fit for me. But I'm not crazy, REALLY! :lol:
I think there's something to be said, too, about the usefulness of labels. It's tempting to see its limitations and discard its use entirely. For me, I find it invigorating to see those from within and without unschooling communities attempt to better clarify what it is the unschooler believes, does, and believe they do. Without a label, discussion would be so difficult.
Yet, I also see how this "unschooling" label is useful only in philosophical discussions. When one examines an actual "unschooler," well, no one can ever attain the ideal. It's not just nearly impossible to, it IS impossible to. I think it is quite technically coercive to live in one place vs. another, speak one language vs. another, I mean, choices that pre-date the child and which cannot be determined by the child. I mean, there is a pre-existing world. One cannot craft the world according to the child. In fact, how does the child ever know of options if one does not expose the child to option, either by telling them or showing them somehow. And in the act of "exposing" the child, manipulation happens. There is a selection process of what to tell the child, even if one tells the child everything one knows. It is still a selection, a limited set of options. As much as one can embrace the label of "unschooling," there is literally no one who can implement it without my being able to break apart their case. Do you cook for you child? Do you stock your kitchen with food? That's coercion right there! Does your child forage for food on their own? That's coercion too. ANY parenting decision can be viewed as coercion. EVEN IF THE CHILD GOES ALONG WITH IT. Because the child cannot be cognizant of all possibilities. And cannot process every outcome of every possibility.
But just because it's impossible to be truly and purely "unschooling," doesn't mean one doesn't try, that one doesn't embrace the philosophy and principle and translate it into reality the best one can. I would argue that in the translation, all philosophies fail. 'Cause we're living, and life is messy. Even for those practicing other homeschooling philosophies, I wonder how they would stand up to a rigorous examination of their day-to-day. Not in terms of method, but actual philosophy. I think the best teachers are those who have a principled core (even if the principle is that there are no principles) and implement education fully cognizant of the limitations of principles yet somehow transcends those limitations and achieve the ends of the principles anyway. That's when the teaching is just MAGIC!
Sarah, by the way, I have an 11-year-old too. She started school this year as well, against my best judgement. I'm trying to entice her back to homeschooling with new curricula I've discovered and new programs I've found. Is that coercion? Absolutely. Though I'm open about it. And I'm open to her staying in school AND doing this stuff with me too.
Pei
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This discussion really is so enjoyable!
Sarah, thank you for your posts about the lack of coercion as a necessary component of unschooling. I've struggled with this a lot myself. I do consider myself an unschooler, and I do believe it harmful to coerce a child to do anything. Yet, philosophy doesn't always coincide with practice. Even the most conscientious unschooler cannot avoid coercion. Isn't it coercive to, say, live one place rather than another? To stock one's home with certain foods vs. other foods? To present choices one knows to the child, though there are choices one does not know of? I find these things to be coercive by circumstance. When you push it far enough, no unschooler is an unschooler. Everyone has context, and everyone has bias. The philosophy is wonderful, I believe, but ultimately impossible to achieve.
I should add, too, that just because coercion is "harmful," doesn't mean I don't do it. I simply note that I'm doing damage to my child. But that's okay too. It's the best option I've got, being who I am at the time. I just try to do it with as much clarity and awareness as I can. I think often "harm" is the best option. But maybe I define "harm" unconventionally. I see coercion as spiritual violence, as an energetic wound. So, it hurts and is undesirable 'cause it hurts, but in healthy individuals, the wounds heal. And with it, one learns. Just as I wouldn't feel comfortable forbidding tree-climbing for fear of physical scratches, I don't feel comfortable preventing the psychic wounds of having me coerce them into peacefully resolving conflicts. It wounds their integrity, but they'll heal with greater maturity. Does that make sense? But just as I wouldn't want my kids to experience the devastating effects of falling off a multi-story tall redwood tree, so I wouldn't want them to be greatly forced by me. Some wounds are too great. I think everyone draws the line at or near their comfort level. Some draw it a little farther. Yet, we all have context so we all do draw that line somewhere, whether we admit to it or not. Lack of a line in theory translates to drawing the line farther than one first thinks is possible in practice, perhaps.
Pei
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As for the passion thing, you have described my mom and myself to a T. Going to read up more ADD and ADHD..
While you're at it, check out descriptions of 2E, Twice Exceptional. I'm about to read a library book called *Misdiagnosis and Dual Diagnoses of Gifted Children and Adults*.
Pei
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Learning to read late keeps your kids dependent. I want my kids to learn to read so they can follow their interests without having to ask me every five seconds to read information for them. I believe it retards their education because so much of it is reading dependent.
and
So although I agree that the push, push push to get four and five year olds to read is not so healthy, I see so much benefit to early reading that I am super glad I taught my children to read starting gently at age 5.:iagree:
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We just roll with things. I started doing a 6-week plan, and it works really well. Often things don't get done for a long time, then a lot gets done in a short amount of time. Hey, with a 6-week plan, it's all good.
I keep one thing in mind all the time: people with adhd have a much harder time doing what they don't want to do. So I encourage ourselves just to relax about conventions and standards. The more we pressure ourselves, the harder it'll be to do it. Be pulled by our passions instead of pushing ourselves to our goals.
Curriculum-wise, the kids just love when we do stuff. Thank goodness I do a lesson plan now 'cause before I would sometimes forget for weeks at a time that we were supposed to do something, like history. Like, I would just forget that history was a subject. But, hey, it's all good. It's not like I would've forgotten forever!
Pei
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I definitely see value in practicing handwork/manual work.
As for the homemaking curricula, I was really excited to look through them. I think something like that sounds fabulous. The samples were so disappointing, though. Dull and condescending. I view home ec as just practical learning about being a capable grown-up.
I don't believe academic training is necessary for a person, though I believe it's rare for no academic training to be favorable. Nor do I believe that college is the goal of primary and secondary education. I see academics as a category of studies in things we're interested in. So math is the study of how things relate to one another numerically and spatially. Science is the study of how things work. Literature is the study of humanity's notion of itself. Handwork is also a study. In fact, I can hardly think of anything that couldn't be a study, and thereby a subcategory of academics. I think it has to do with attitude. For me, academics is romantic and idealistic. Within it are the promise and excitement of knowledge and inquiry. When someone engages in academic work with no joy for either the process or the end result, I find it hard to categorize that work as academic. For me, academics is transformative. It changes what you think and how you view the world. The I who studied a rock by observing its shape and weight and feel and color is not the I before the study. I am transformed in the process of engaging with the rock and thereby engaging with myself. This transformation would perhaps be even greater if I had taken the rock and dropped it or thrown it or maybe broken it apart with a mallet. That, to me, is handwork or manual work. It's yet another way to study, to use one's body to engage with the world. How can that not be considered academics? I don't know that any great scientist or literary critic or philosopher or expert in any academic field could get away with not every using handwork or manual work.
I appreciated reading the Heart of Wisdom chart for Greek vs. Hebrew worldviews. I had no idea people thought this. No wonder so many Christians homeschool their kids with a specific desire to keep out dissimilar viewpoints. I understand charts to simplify concepts, yet I found this chart to be especially simplistic, inaccurate, and really shallow. I'm incredulous that people could really believe Greek thought to be that even after a cursory examination. Is it closed-mindedness? It makes me wonder where my blindspots are and if they are that glaring to others as well!
Hunter, I'm so glad you're introducing topics to discuss!
Pei
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I am scared to do it, but I really want to. I did teach my big kids to knit. But that was it. I wanted us to weave, but I really couldn't figure it out. I meant to do paper weaving with them, but never got confident enough. Handwork is very intimidating to me. I still have a set of wood carving tools I bought a decade ago to make simple toys for my now 6th grader then. I just started doing art with them. I've been studying OM to prepare for my little kids for OM K next year. I hope it'll be enough hand-holding for me.
Pei
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I laughed once when driving past a pro-pot rally where everyone had long hair and wore tie dye. Couldn't just one guy have a crew cut and wear a suit??
That's TOO funny!!! Pro-pot rally? Are you sure it wasn't an unschooling park day?
Pei
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I love reading all your stories!
I just recently embraced my 2E-ness with much emotion. My kids don't show much of their "disabilities" 'cause of the whole unschooling thing. For so long I was trying to do things in a linear, sensible way, and now that I don't care, my mind is active again. My latest idea is to analyze literature with the kids without having read it, relying on the idea that there are common themes, maybe universal themes, that one can engage with within the text merely with a short summary and an excerpt. The kids have already read the books (they seem to always have already read all the books in the universe). I'm not sure why their LDs and ADHD aren't stopping them from reading!
When my big girls were young, I was really crazy. I was so extreme, I wouldn't even tell them what things were. For instance, my daughter might point to a rake and ask, "What's that?" and I would reply, "What do YOU think that might be?" Or "what might that be for?" Literally, like, not as a Socratic method or anything, but just an open-ended interpret-the-world-on-your-own-terms-with-as-little-interference-as-possible thing. That was the opposite of what my intellectually-curious kids needed! I was trying to keep the world and its evil dictates away from them, but they were explicitly inviting the world into their lives. I looked like an unschooler then, but I was really sort of the opposite. In keeping structure and formality out, I was asserting my own agenda to keep my kids "pure." And I was strict about it.
Pei
Anyone NOT identify with a HS philosophy?
in K-8 Curriculum Board
Posted
:lol: Love this quote!