JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst
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Posts posted by JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst
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To echo some of the other posts-it is all about the scaffolding, advising and coaching.
There is no substitute for life experience. My father and MIL (and even more friends and family) have coached me through lots of life experiences and still do. Not because they think I can't handle the given situation but because the situation is new for me and they have the experience.
I expect to do the same for my kids, offering advice and assistance, giving a sounding board to talk it all out. Then they can go out and handle it themselves.
I'm not expecting to have to navigate college for my kids, rather help them do it for themselves. So far I provide transportation and answer texts. Sure, day one I made my dd's bed, not because she can't but because as mom it was about all I could do to make it her new home. Then I just had to hope she'd make it again before moving out :rolleyes: (yes, I'm joking).
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At every single freshman orientation that I took my kids to, I was always pressured into joining the college parent association. Like PTA on steroids, I guess. I looked at them like they were crazy. There's no way I want or need to share the college experience with my kids.
I've run into a couple of these groups. They are actually parent to parent groups. The groups I've met aren't there to interact with the students or plan events for them. They are there to work with other parents, typically prospective and first year parents. This can alleviate some of the burden from admissions and orientation staff who are trying to help the kids and keep the parents out of the kids groups (i.e. class Facebook page) where they are asking questions about billing, supplementing dining accounts, dates of holidays, transportation, etc. That way the parents are kept out of the kids' "business" and are still getting answers from veteran parents. They are often present on scholarship or accepted student weekends to answer parent questions and concerns (both in formal panels and at informal gatherings).
The most direct student involvement I've seen are the parents' groups who assist with boxes on move in day.
Perhaps somewhere there is a super PTA more involved in the kids lives but I like the parent to parent option.
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One thing to keep in mind is that while we (as parents) often focus on the total cost/amount owed, the financial aid office looks at discrete billing. In other words, while we look at the lump sum we owe, they look at tuition, room/board, and fees as three separate entities. For reasons I cannot fully fathom, they will often use some grant/scholarship moneys for only one or two of the categories but not interchangeably or against the total owed.
Schools handle this money differently and it can even depend on the specific grant/scholarship you received. Some are restricted, while others are not. As a side note, I have found that financial aid offices are not always forthcoming with this information prior to having received an application and monies having been awarded.
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They totally overhauled it right after dd took AP Art History. Make sure you look at the college board because I am pretty sure they were going to give an actual list of which pieces could be tested on (this didn't exist before). We also used an app for the iPad that wasn't cheap ($30) but had the pieces in flashcards. It was nice.
They did overhaul it- anyone considering AP Art History should be sure they have the latest version of the requirements. They do have a list of aprox. 250 works that will be used on the exam.
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We used Khan Academy, Teaching Company lecture series, Barnet's Short Guide to Writing About Art, and Gardner's Art Through the Ages. Be sure to look at sample syllabi available at AP Central.
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This year ds is taking AP tests in the 3rd school district we have worked with, some really positive experiences others not so much. All was well in the end.
However, he was surprised to discover the number of kids who arrived at the test but didn't bother to take the test. They spent the whole testing session napping on their desks. Others filled out the bubble sheet randomly (to include answering more questions than were on the test and using the E block when answers only went through D). One pulled out a cell phone during testing. Another began eating and, when the food was taken away, pulled out more. Around half the kids attempted the test initially but most gave up and resorted to napping.
I have no words.
I hadn't anticipated being proud that ds saw the tests through, even when they became tough or they asked that dreaded question you knew you weren't quite ready for (there's always one ;) ). I had thought that it was a given that one would give it their best shot. I guess I was wrong.
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That seems extreme - not giving out info until this late!
Younger ds is done with his APs - just finished AP English language. Older ds has statistics tomorrow and then he'll be done!
My biggest problem is that I have the info because I kept contacting his office not because he intended to contact me (or my son). Sigh.
Congratulations to your sons-being finished is such a relief for everyone!
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This was my fifth year of organizing AP exams and the 3rd school system I've worked with. They had to send DS to two different schools to take the APs he wanted this year. Ok-no problem, I understand they don't all offer every exam. School one-fantastic and responsive, school two-after months of increasing attempts to get in touch with the coordinator to find out the when and where details (they had already confirmed willingness to administer the test) we FINALLY were given information today-a mere 48 hours before the exam. And the AP Coordinator had the nerve to say that he hoped they delay in getting back to me didn't cause anyone stress. Seriously??
Thank you for letting me vent-certainly not the worst AP story out there but for goodness sake...
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FWIW---
We were at a college admissions event this week and ds spoke with the head of admissions for a state college. This gentleman pointed out that they specifically like to see Boys'/Girls' State as an EC with their applicants. He said, in essence, that this EC stands apart because it combines an application/interview process with a prior selection/recommendation by faculty at your school. This state school places a strong emphasis on leadership in both applicants and their own programs; admissions considers this particular EC a great find on an application.
Yes, homeschoolers can apply to be part of this program.
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I wouldn't make assumptions about all private schools without investigating them. While some don't have great aid others offer aid to solid kids with sincere interest in attending. One can also attend a private school but live at home if that would help.
Another option to consider is if your state has a community college to college program. Attend CC for two years and they will tailor your courses to meeting the requirements of state schools after which you transfer. The transfer program already mandates which courses the state school must accept for full credit. Under programs like this a student can frequently graduate the state school in 2 years or perhaps 2 years plus 1 semester if there are a few courses left over.
Best of luck to your son. Not all kids are National Merit Scholars or attend Harvard. That's ok. Plenty of solid but not extraordinary kids go to college and excel there.
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Don't want to be argumentative, but I know that not everyone agrees as I have had others on this board tell me that because it is a high school award, he can put it on his list of awards. "High school awards earned before 9th grade", just like Algebra 1 is completed before 9th grade. What is the rational for leaving it off? DS made it into the IMO camp the first time in 8th grade and I have that listed. Leave that off too? He was the only 8th grader in the country to make it in. I think that these 8th grade awards tell part of the story.
ETA: Ok, I'm trying to take Sebastian's line of thinking. What is the story? Basically, I'm a scientist, not a mathematician. I could teach him about science, and how to do a large scale science project, but both of these projects turned from experimental projects to mathematical modelling projects because of his interest and motivation to direct them that way. It was in 7th grade that he started to study for the IMO camp selection problems, and this was the time period where his interests moved away from mine (science) and towards his own (math). He could not do both well, so he chose math. Is this the story? And if so, do I want to tell it? It is of value?
I would be careful about how you present this story. You want it to be his story and interests not your story or him appearing to be pushed by your interests. Perhaps you can link his early interest in science and evolving interest in math to what he wishes to pursue in college.
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We saw Sweet Briar at a college fair last fall. It is very small, less than 400 students. Check out their financial standings as I believe that they almost closed a couple years ago but the alumni rallied and kept them open.
Yikes. Not good.
Thanks for letting me know!
I think there is a board member with recent SB experience. I would not get scared off by the declaration that the school was to close a few years ago. There was a lot of odd dealings around the announcement, including the fact that the school was not in debt, had a strong endowment (around $80 million IIRC), and had not done any capital campaign among alumna or families of students. There was some speculation that members of the board had personal interests in what might have happened if the school properties were liquidated. I know the state attorney general was investigating members of the board.
A former president replaced the president who had made the announcement. I think at this point, SB may be in an even better position than it was before, if only because it garnered so much publicity for the school.
It might not be everyone's cup of tea, especially if a student is looking for a larger school. It is quite small. But I wouldn't reject it out of fear.
And that board member would be me.
I would not fear looking at Sweet Briar due to their near closure.
The short story is that the previous board and administration were (IMHO) negligent and incompetent in their management of the school. The long story is often supposed to contain incidents of corruption and underhanded practices.
Over the course of a few months after the closure announcement alumnae and some faculty banded together and launched a sucessful financial and legal battle to save the school. There is now a new board, new president, and new (and returning) faculty/administrators. You will never meet a more organized, determined, or loyal group of alums.
Life at Sweet Briar goes on almost as if nothing had ever happened. The largest indicator still remaining on campus is the size of the class of 2019. They are a small but vibrant group who's size was greatly impacted by the closure announcement.
Departments are staffed, services and clubs up and running, the school has recently introduced new sports teams to their roster and is about to launch a major in computer science. They are one of only two women's colleges with an accredited engineering program.
They have also recently hired a new president for next year. (The current president only intended his term to be as an interim president while the school was regaining its footing.
Sweet Briar is horse mad! They have a very active riding team and lessons for students. The facilities and trails are beautiful. You do have the option to board a horse if you own one, if not the school has horses too.
If you are interested in a small women's college with lots of personal attention/engagement with faculty, and a solid riding program, I would take a look at Sweet Briar.
That said, there are many schools in Central and Southern Virginia that have active riding programs.
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I think you cannot as a parent/counselor/student over estimate the capriciousness of admissions.
I think some schools will reject you if they sense you are using them as a safety school, why deny another kid admission if it is clear (to the adcomm) you will attend a different school. I think some schools will reject you if they sense that you won't be useful to them as an alum or that your family won't be useful in the meantime. I think it is also important to know that highly selective schools receive enough qualified applicants to fill their acceptance list multiple times. Your number might not come up in that lottery.
A healthy dose of statistical realism in admissions and honest conversations about expectations and tuition costs/financial aid/scholarships are very important in this process. I'm not saying that students should never reach for the stars (they should) but they should also have plans and choices that excite them. Acceptance at the Harvard of your dreams isn't the only path to happiness and success in life; ideally an applicant should see many paths to their dreams and be excited, perhaps in different ways, by all of them.
FWIW on the topic of ECs:
I have seen colleges break out percentages of their incoming class that were:
National Merit
Top X % of class or valedictorian
Sports team captain (athlete)
Officer in student/class government
National Honor Society
Student Club Officer
Boy's State/Girl's State
Eagle Scout/Gold Award
Employed during high school
JROTC
Music/Theater
The fact that a college is willing to break out this information means they are looking for it. Perhaps they are really only looking for who doesn't have it or who really participated actively. While the competition may have these items on their application, a complete absence of these items on your application might indicate something to admissions. Having certain ECs may not get you bonus points but in a highly competitive environment not having them (and not having something that replaces the typical list) might create a disadvantage.
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Yep. I do not consider college tours particularly helpful. What could be helpful are individual visits to specific departments to get questions answered and see how faculty interact with their majors. But canned tours with a student tour guide? Totally overrated. You see the campus and facilities, which does not tell you anything about the actual experience of attending. Visiting an online forum where attending students and alumni answer prospective students' questions will be more valuable.
ETA: Even sitting in on a class will not mean anything. The college will make sure that prospective students visit a class with a good lecturer and will hide the crummy teachers. There is a wide spectrum of teacher quality at each institution, even very high caliber ones.
Maybe I can see college visits useful for kids who have no idea how college works, have never seen a campus, never attended a class. It lowers barriers. But for kids who have been very familiar with college since a young age and have taken classes on campus, there won't be much to get out of.
It was exactly this class room experience which made the final decision for my daughter between her final three schools. School A (highly regarded state school) never offered the opportunity to visit a class room so reputation and anecdotal evidence were all she could base a decision on. School B (small LAC) had students attend classes as part of a scholarship weekend event. The classes were pre-designated and the instructors had altered the coursework to accommodate the visitors. It came off as very contrived and awkward. The extent to which this school controlled the visitors experience over the weekend made it look as though they were hiding something about their institution rather than showing off all it had to offer. School C (small LAC) was also visited on a scholarship weekend. We arrived the day before the event to tour the campus, sit in on classes and have an overnight stay. DD was handed a list of class options that might appeal to her stated possible majors, given a map, and guided to the location of the first class she chose (and we left her alone until dinner that night). Over the course of the day she met a variety of professors from different departments, several took time out of their day to talk extensively with her. Students in the class she was visiting invited her to lunch with them and after discovering what she was studying in high school invited her to join them in their next class (not one on her list) where the professor was welcoming and encouraged her participation in their activities.
I'm sure you've already guessed which school she is attending. It is interesting to note that 2 of her classmates at School C were at the same School B & C events and felt the same way about their experience.
Schools differ greatly and you have to learn to look past the hype and sales pitch. I would start with making a list of what you want to know or see. You need to know what you want out of a tour program. For some people the tour is ultimately meaningless and for others it can make or break their decision to apply/attend.
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Remember you do have the option to adopt an approved syllabus. I think the sample syllabi are usually adoptable. Setting up Human Geography isn't too tough though.
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I don't know about a gentleman and black suits but they always seem to make one look like an undertaker or funeral attendee.
If he has a shop in DC already they should be able to give him great advice. He might look for year 'round wool weights so that the suits will have a more useful life. There is also something nagging at the back of my brain about trousers with cuffs vs no cuffs and the appropriate style of shoes for each. The more formal suit should allow for lace up leather shoes.
Also, keep in mind that despite their seeming wearability/durability, thick rubber soles don't belong on dress shoes. Another item to keep in mind is a belt or two that will work with the suits. For long term investing good leather is best and least likely to crack.
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When the bank tells you what you can afford for a house? Because we never, ever could afford what those calculators told us we could afford. We would laugh about how ridiculous they were and then look for something much cheaper.
In a way yes. But the difference is with a house you can search for a cheaper property to buy. With EFC they say you can afford X amount. Depending on the school they may only offer you funding for amounts above that line. Each school is a bit different though in how they apply the numbers.
You really need to look at the financial aid/scholarship/grant package offered by each institution and then add on anything not calculated into their figures-transportation home, running around money, books, medical insurance, medical expenses not covered, etc. Also look closely at how any work study money is actually used. They may be using that to make costs look lower when in reality you'll pay that money up front in tuition and they get it back over the semester in (potentially) taxable income.
Also, when looking at costs remember to factor in whatever percentage the school typically increases expenses by each year. Year 4 can cost more than Year 1 due to inflation.
FWIW I think the EFC numbers are nuts and often way out of line with reality.
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I would go with a navy suit as my number one choice. Don't pick linen, seersucker or cotton twill, he'll be a wrinkled mess by the end of the day. For dress shirts I'd go with light blues and whites. Have at least one white shirt that does not have a button down collar for the most formal of days. He can probably be a bit more colorful with ties but not crazy prints. Have at least one very reserved tie.
I'd ask around if he is ever permitted to wear a blazer and pants rather than a full suit. A navy blazer and couple different pants in grey and tan could offer lots of expanded options.
Be prepared for rain with a good umbrella.
Once upon a time Land's End was good for blazers and pants, had to mail order a suit from Macy's a few years ago and that worked out well. Expect to need tailoring.
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Sorry-wish I had great advice but I don't. Just sending you best wishes for an acceptable to you solution.
I will say that I saw a very similar thing happen many years ago before my mom-at-home days. The school in question was actually letting go/hiring faculty members to meet the accreditation board's criteria in advance of such a review. So, your school is far from the first.
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Thanks for those thoughts. I wanted to include the schools that had turned him down, because sometimes it is so crushing to get the turn down letter. Fortunately for my son, neither WU nor UChicago were schools that he'd pinned much hope on. On the other hand, the turn down from the Naval Academy and the radio silence from Navy ROTC have stung a bit more.
I will admit to some petty inner voice monologues where I ask what exactly some of the admissions offices were looking for. The whole process is quite a wringer for both kid and parent. I think it is especially wearing on the main homeschool teacher, who is typically the mom. Not only do you have all of the standard anxiety associate with college applications, but also you have strangers judging the worth of your kid based on the value of the homeschool education you provided and the counselor documentation you sent in. It reminds me of when my kids were younger and I hated to watch Are You Smarter than a 5th Grader with them. Every question they got wrong seemed freighted with a failure on my part. What do you mean, you don't know the elements in water or that a frog isn't a reptile? Ack, that must be my fault.
Hang in there everyone. Your college sweatshirt does not dictate your value as a person. Not having a college sweatshirt does not mean you are less worthy as a citizen, neighbor or friend. My college bound senior has as a major role model one of young guys who helps with youth group. He is a journeyman sheet metal worker, with numerous clever side gigs. My son is constantly in awe of how this young man is a big brother to everyone in the group and is so capable. They were doing a work day at Fisher House a few months back and the swing set there was broken. Our friend pulled his welding equipment out of his car and fixed it in about 15 minutes. That really impressed my son.
Exactly! This is much of what I was trying, with much less elegance and success, to get at.
Application and scholarship results are unpredictable and often make no logical sense from our side of the action. I think the kids represented here on the board have some wonderful successes but are not immune from less than positive results.
Too often we, the parent educators, take that as a personal hit and reflection on our own success. Our kids also feel it and wonder what they did wrong. Together we wonder if homeschooling was a success and how this all reflects on the reputation of homeschoolers in general. We, parents and kids, together have a huge personal investment in the educational process and the results it produces. For those of us with multiple kids we repeat this process over again with each child. With each new experience comes new celebrations and new frustrations as unique as the individuals involved. As Sebastian pointed out, those thick and thin envelops are not a statement on your worth as a human being or a predictor of what your life will become down the road.
As kids make exciting choices this month and get ready to head off to colleges, jobs, internships, and other opportunities we should be celebrating the commencement of the next phase of their lives and proud of how we've prepared them to face the challenges ahead.
The college application process is fraught with frustrations; some based on acceptance rates, some based on scholarship results, and some based on finding the best financial path forward. There is elation and disappointment. It is important to remember there will be both.
I'm jumping back on the college crazy train later this month with my son-a totally different set of goals, academic and career plans, and desires than the first kid I helped through the process. Time to review transcripts, write new course descriptions, gather financial info, research schools and scholarships. We will have challenges, good news and bad news, and some tense moments in the next year. At the end he will have a plan forward for the future and at this point I can't tell what that will be but he'll have one.
In the meantime, congratulations to the WTMBoards Class of 2017 and their families-such amazing opportunities lie ahead! You all have so very much to be proud of and celebrate looking at these lists.
:party:
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Over the last couple of days:
Declined by University of Chicago and Washington University in St Louis
Accepted by University of Washington and College of the Holy Cross.
I woke up today with much on my mind and one of those items was this post. I wanted to say thank you to Sebastian for sharing this, for those who haven't gone through the admissions process yet this is actually a huge statement and one that should help you frame how you look at the outcome of various applications.
I've never been a fan of the word "reject" as being the automatic opposite of "accept". I think, as Sebastian put it, "decline" is more accurate in many cases. So much of the emotional burden of senior year hinges on those infamous thin and thick envelopes and it is important to remember that not receiving an acceptance letter does not equal being rejected by or deemed unworthy of a particular institution. There isn't always a way to determine what the decision was based upon but in no way should a student allow those letters to taint their acceptances or make them feel unworthy of all the good news they have received.
I had a lot of applause in my head for this post this morning with all those other things on my mind. Homeschooled kids aren't perfect. Among all the wonderful acceptances to schools and names of scholarships won listed here, there are some less exciting results happening behind the scenes. WTM Board kids will get both thin and thick envelopes every year and when researching homeschooling high school and what the outcomes might be I'd hate to have anyone think that our college bound kids are all only receiving positive news.
This is a brave post, one that my own kids would probably beg me never to write-a request I would of course honor, but a post that while subtle in its wording is full of an important reminder for parent educators of soon to be seniors. Homeschoolers are admitted to great schools every year, nationally ranked schools and small local schools, schools carefully chosen by that student and their family at which they will receive an education and wonderful life experience. Homeschoolers also have admissions departments around the country narrowing their options for them by declining admission. We are not immune to that experience.
Thank you! It is a healthy reminder that is full of realism.
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Thanks for the heads up!!
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Most schools will allow a deferment of enrollment for a year. If you take this option be sure to confirm (preferably in writing) that any financial aid or scholarships would still be in place when she decides to enroll.
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When evaluating campus living be sure to ask questions about living accommodations past the first year. Tours typically show "freshman" dorms but don't focus much on the 3 years that follow. Some schools assume multiple semesters off campus, some have enough dorm space for all, some have on campus apartments, some live in-house with their Greek affiliation, Honors housing, athletes housing, it varies greatly. On campus spaces also vary greatly from building to building-often reflective of the time period of construction.
Everyone has very different expectations, needs, and desires when it comes to on campus living and no campus can please 100% of the students. If housing is a hot button issue for the prospective student then a visit and some great questions posed to the tour guide can really help clarify what is available. (Yes, some kids really don't focus that much on the dorms-is there a bed, desk, shower? Yes. Ok, done. Others will investigate, measure, plan and decorate at a level worthy of a DIY show on cable TV.)
Keep in mind that housing for a graduate level student is another issue altogether. For those with a 5 year bachelors/masters program you might want to ask what happens with housing in year 5.
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Best Grammar Course
in High School and Self-Education Board
Posted
I noticed that someone had been looking over this post today and I wanted to update...
I've been using the First Language Lessons series with my youngest. In my opinion they are better in the early grades for grammar than Easy Grammar. Barbarian Diagrammarian is definitely designed for older kids, (again IMHO) 7th grade at the earliest.