I meant to say "is not 100% completely innocent..." sorry, I left out the NOT

Well if they were taking responsibility for THEIR actions like they should, then the perpetrator would say that. Just like we all should say, yes, I had a lustful thought or yes, I broke it, or yes, I stole it were we guilty of any of those things. Or gee maybe, yes, I was molested and shouldn't have been and it is not OK for him to have done that but the lesson I learned is that I won't dress in a fashion that has my breasts hanging out for all the world to see nor will I go to that type of place again. It sucks what happened to me, but I share in the responsibility for I knowingly went into it dressed poorly and had no business going into that place. I do feel a modestly dressed woman riding a bus to the grocery store who happens to be raped is truly 100% a victim with no responsibility for what happened to her and I apologize that anything I posted earlier made anyone think I felt differently but I will stand behind my opinion that the scantily clad woman dressed like a two bit floozie hanging at the crime ridden street corner putting herself on display is 100% completely innocent of what happens to her. No, I don't feel all the little boys raped and molested by Catholic Priests asked for it but I would suggest to any Catholic friends now that we have seen this play out publicly for years, not leave their children unattended with their Priest. Sad but...one bad egg does tend to ruin it for all the good ones.

How the heck do you delete a thread altogether? I am just as guilty of this entire thing going somewhere it was never meant to go. UGH!!!!! Really?

I give up!!!!!! I believe we all have to take responsibility for ourselves period end of story regardless of whether it's the way we think, dress, where we go for fun, what we watch, etc....and when we say or do something or go somewhere and something bad happens to us sometimes, we have to take responsibility for that too or at least partial responsibility. We live in a society where we are all too quick to blame everyone else for our poor choices. A husband cheats on his wife...most would say she is the victim, he is a dirty rat. Maybe, just maybe since it takes two to make a marriage work, it takes two to make it fall apart. Just maybe she wasn't the easiest to live with or whatever the case may be so she therefore needs to look at herself and their history together and accept that she has some of the blame to carry in it too. Just an example but I am sure I will be reamed a new one over that comment too. Good thing I am not emotionally weak. :tongue_smilie:

OK, you say that as have a couple other posters here I recall, that looking is OK and admiring is OK. Well the issue is though, many believe the admiring is sinful and lustful. Even if it doesn't cross the sexual, I want to bang him thought wave, the line has been crossed is what I believe some feel. I guess the opinions and thoughts put out here in responses, mine included, just show the great variances of beliefs regardless of religion/Christianity.

All I am suggesting is not putting ourselves in potentially bad situations. Can someone be molested or raped just by going to get groceries? Yes. I am not saying never leave your house though, again simply saying that we should diligently steer clear of places and situations that we know to be bad ones. Don't go to the grocery store in a crime ridden neighborhood. Go to one in a safer neighborhood and chances are greater nothing will happen but not totally ruled out. We all just agree to disagree and that is fine.

Again, I do appreciate the replies and the varying views here on this. While I don't obviously agree with I think anyone that have replied ;), I can and do respect each of you for your opinions and views. And "slut shaming"...never heard that before.

That is a valid point as well.

You are quite correct, very sinful indeed. I have never claimed to be perfect in any of this. Any hey, I loved the movies and like Pirates but nut in a lustful way. I like Rum too and many would say alcohol is a no-no.

That was opinion just as I would feel that if you are traveling to a country loaded with civil unrest you are putting yourself in a potentially bad situation by being in an environment where you might be shot, harmed, killed even. I personally wouldn't dress provocatively then go to a bar where there is by nature normally more men than woman and feel safe. I would be putting myself into what I feel to be a bad situation and would feel responsible partly if I ended up being groped or God forbid even worse. That is the gist of what I was trying to say. Others felt and still feel(which is fine)that should a woman do that and be molested or raped that she is in no way, shape, or form responsible for what happened to herself. I simply disagree. Stay away from situations that might prove to be bad. Isn't that basically what we teach our kids? Stay away from this person or that place because of what might happen. If I educate my child to stay away from a person because of reasons X,Y, or Z but he/she ignores that and goes to hang with said person then something happens because they are in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong person, well they have to take some responsibility for that.

Well, what started as a modesty matter has gotten somewhere I never intended it to go and I felt myself defending my own beliefs and well, so much for that. I appreciate the commentary here and the opinions of all that have posted. We can all respectfully agree to disagree on this matter. There will always be at least two sides to the fence here.

Very witty! :D

Dangerous place to live...sure...does my husband see on of the bikini clad women and have sinful human thoughts? I would be naive to think he didn't. Do I have sinful thoughts if a well built man in swim trunks shows up? Yep! Not gonna' deny it. Do we both fight the urge to do anything about it? Sure do. Are there others that don't? Of course. We are responsible for our own thoughts as many of you have posted and I agree 100% but I also feel that to some degree as humans that we put ourselves into bad situations all the time by what we wear, how we speak, where we go... Should a single woman go to a bar and get drunk where she is outnumbered 3 to 1 with men? I would say NO. You would say that she has every right to go there and it wouldn't be her fault at all for anything bad that happens to her period end of story. While I agree, no one would have the right to harm her or abuse her or rape her, she has to use common sense and simply not go there for it's a bad place. I would venture to bet that you don't take your kids sight seeing in ghettos or BAD crime ridden areas because you know what MIGHT happen to you all should you go there.

Distracting yes!!! Now as a woman, and I am only asking for an opinion, not accusing you so don't feel that way, but should a well built man walk by in no shirt with rippling muscles showing, would it not make you think thoughts you otherwise wouldn't have thought at that moment? You are reading a text and just happen to look up to see that and suddenly rather than looking right back down at your text and continuing on your way with reading, you must stop your brain from focusing on the image you just saw and taking your thoughts to a lustful place. That is what I mean when I make a comment along the lines of a woman or in this case a man dressing a certain way are putting themselves into a situation where others are going to, in our sinful manner, have sinful thoughts.

Why yes, we actually do live on a beach and I am so very saddened every day at what I see as acceptable beach wear for so many of the people, both male and female, out there.

You are absolutely correct but you don't feel that in doing so you may be giving the wrong impression and potentially cause something ill to happen to yourself?

Sadly in the type of countries you are referring to, the issue goes far beyond modesty. I think the problem their is more of men simply trying to keep women down because they know what women are capable of. Keep them under your thumb to control them is that mind set.

:tongue_smilie: You will hate one of my responses then so after you curse me, lol, just know that I do not believe it is ok for any woman to be raped regardless of her dress, just that she needs to be responsible for the way she dresses and the message it puts out there. We have all been guilty of being judgemental haven't we? We are in the mall and take a second look at a woman that is dressed like she should be in a street corner, or a woman that has tried cramming 10 lbs of **** into a 5 lb bag. We are all sinful in our thought process and just need to be more diligent about our thoughts as well as our outward appearance. Yes, men MUST take responsibility for their thoughts also. I am sure that even a woman covered head to toe is thought of lustfully or pervertedly by some men out there. Anyway, my intent in posting this was not to start a fire storm of emotional responses, just a spring board for some thoughts and opinions from others about the topic.

:iagree: Very well stated.

I don't believe it is solely a womans responsibility when it comes to this. I agree with you that we are not responsible for mens thoughts. We could dress like the Amish and still there would be men out there that lust after us. On the other hand, while I don't believe in any way, shape, or form that rape or sexual abuse in any fashion are OK, I do believe that if a woman chooses to dress provocatively and put herself in a bad situation, she to some degree is asking for something bad to happen to her and must take some responsibility for some of what happens to herself should she become victim of something. Please don't shoot me...just my opinion to which I am entitled.

You are absolutely correct; modesty is a dual gender issue. I specified female in my original post however because this particular sermon was very focused on the way women dress. I agree with you about the way men do and in some cases don't dress. UGH!!!!!

My SIL and I, who both homeschool our children have been discussing modesty this past week in light of the issues with my DS I posted about here last week(12 year old curiosity about sex and finding things on internet). What are the opinions here on this subject? Modesty and the way we dress and present ourselves. Here is a good sermon that helped me rethink even just a couple of the lower cut shirts I wear regularly. While I can't control the eyes of men, I can surely not tempt them by excess cleavage. http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.asp?SpeakerOnly=true&currSection=sermonsspeaker&keyword=C.^J.^Mahaney It runs about 45 minutes so listen when you have then chance and then respond should you desire to do so. What will you do to help raise your daughters to be modest?

I believe that many home school families are in the same boat of being a one income household. I have heard of some that aren't but I honestly can't imagine how they do it with two careers and home educating but anyway... Some of the things I do is thrift store shop for everything first except things like undewear, bras, and the other things we wouldn't want to wear used. As far as ALL clothing though, my kids only wear NEW if they are gifts from others for bdays or Christmas. They understand our desire to recycle and reuse as much as possible and are fine with wearing hand me downs and bargain finds. I also contact our providers of car insurance, television, internet, and cell regularly and explain finances are tight and ask for discounts. Now, you really are in a good spot if you are prepared to threaten to leave them as a customer and then actually follow through with it should they not grovel and beg you to stay with awesome deals. :D I try also to plan all outings into the same day to avoid unnecessary use of gas. Buying used curriculum is good too and then selling things you no longer use can help offset that. Maybe this is or isn't the type of info. you are looking for but it's a start.

Thanks bunches for that link and thanks to OP for posting this thread. I too am a novice and beginning my journey soon into bread making. I plan to buy pre-milled wheat at http://www.naturalwaymills.com because I can't afford the equipment to do it myself at home right now. I don't want to use white flour or stuff from the store due to nutritional failings it has.

LOL, yep a major Cap't Jack fan :001_wub: