LolaT
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Posts posted by LolaT
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On 10/10/2019 at 5:32 PM, Servant4Christ said:
That's awesome dedication, first off. So they truely have the ability (when they choose) to be self disciplined and focused. Have you discussed with them that dancing lessons are a privilege and that above all else you are raising them to become young men of character and itegriry which includes being truthful, respectful, honorable, ect? As much as you love seeing them and supporting them in dance, privileges can be revoked when necessary for a time until their behavior is at whatever level you and your husband believe to be reasonable.
Yes, definitely have told them the above.Dance is a kind of crazy endeavor believe it or not. There are yearly contracts, it's crazy expensive (they both have full tuition scholarships. It's the only way they can go, even though there are still huge hard costs that we must cover), and they have attendance rules in the contract that would prohibit them from competing if they miss x number of times or forfeit their scholarship, etc. So, I can't use dance as a privilege to take away (aside from the following year.) And it's something that I've taught them they must be dedicated to doing once they commit.
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On 10/10/2019 at 3:09 PM, lewelma said:
LolaT, sounds like you are having a tough time of it and that your kids are not meeting your expectations. This is so hard. Homeschooling is hard because you are blending being a child's teacher with being their parent, and sometimes those hats should be different.
There seem to be two different camps on this thread, 1) increase discipline to root out unwanted behaviors, and 2) reduce expectations to allow success. This is definitely a philosophical difference, but I will say that if one approach is not working, it is often useful to try the other even just temporarily.
I am in camp 2 - I would reduce expectations to allow success. 1) I would decrease the work load to no more than 4 hours per day. 2) increase the exercise and hands on activities. 3) I would always supervise work and never expect them to get work done independently. 4) I would buy cheaper pens and art supplies. 5) I would have fun non-sneaking snacks available for consumption at any time.
Basically, I would not making schooling a battle, nor would I set it up as me vs them. I would work to create a culture of learning and togetherness.
But you see, all of us are different. And our children are different. And only you can know what to do. The best thing about threads like these is that you get lots of ideas and then in your own quiet time can go sort through them, take a few, and leave the rest.
Good Luck with finding your path.
Ruth in NZ
Thanks. I really appreciate your sentiments here.-
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On 10/10/2019 at 6:12 AM, fourisenough said:
Are you familiar with the Montessori concept of erdkinder for middle school aged children? Here’s a link I grabbed quickly, but I’m sure there are better, more thorough sources out there. http://www.michaelolaf.net/montessori12-18.html
Said with respect and kindness: It sounds like your boys need a different approach to parenting and education. Free time, much more time outdoors, hard physical work, and meaningful connection between what they’re being asked to do with things they actually want/need to learn will likely improve their character and work ethic. Competitive ballroom dance may be the exact opposite of this philosophy, tbh. (You’ll note I have a DD training as a pre-pro classical ballerina, so I wholeheartedly believe in pursuing the performing arts if it’s right for the child.)
I ‘read’ major burn-out and a sense of defeat in your op, and I can identify with you. Homeschooling is hard, thankless work sometimes. If you’ve been at it for a decade or more, it’s absolutely justifiable to feel done and ready to move on. I’m homeschooling my 4th child (currently she 10) and I’m really looking forward to my ‘retirement’. She is more challenging than the first three put together, but things are finally clicking and I feel a renewed sense of purpose and optimism I was lacking for the last couple years.
Obviously I’m responding to just a few paragraphs above and it’s possible I’m way off the mark, but if any of this resonates, I hope you feel less alone. Kids are tough! Best of luck to you as you navigate this rough patch.
Thanks. I do appreciate the respect and the kindness. -
31 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:
It is very disturbing to me that you are calling normal childish behavior as being a "juvenile delinquent". Most likely these kids didn't suddenly wake up one morning and start having these behaviors. They should have been trained and parented all along and to label kids like that takes away the responsibility from the PARENTS to actually PARENT.
Sorry Jean in Newcastle. I wasn't being literal about calling them or myself a juvenile delinquent. I admittedly have a bit (a lot) of a sarcastic humor in my speech. That is all.
As a bit of, probably unnecessary background, I left my career when DD was 3 to be a SAHM and "parent" my kids all day and night. So definitely not shrugging away from responsibility here. It comes naturally to me, but it obviously doesn't come naturally to them (maybe they didn't get that gene). So that's what I'm trying to figure out, what I need to start doing differently to help this.
Thanks for your input, but it goes without saying, it wasn't helpful. There's more important, real things to be disturbed about in this world. -
4 hours ago, SusanC said:
Between us adults I'll throw out the possibility that maybe they should go to school so you can focus on just the parenting part of the relationship. I don't mean you are doing badly, just that it sounds like you have a lot on your plate with them! Not being able to confidently go to the bathroom would be crazy-making for me.
I've definitely considered it for the DS12 but I don't think he would do very well at school at least not at this point. (It would also make it more difficult as he dances ballroom competitively at a high level and often has classes during what would be the regular school hours). I did essentially end up doing that with DD after 7th grade because I felt I was all things to her, and she needed to get out in the world and learn how to navigate more on her own and be accountable and responsible on her own without me. It also, allowed me to stop trying to juggle so many balls, and focus more on the boys.
I'm not there yet with the boys though.
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5 hours ago, Lang Syne Boardie said:
I'm going to disagree that it's normal for a 10yo and a 12yo to get into your baking supplies and destroy your school materials, stuff bowls of food into their desks, and to not be reliable enough for you to leave them unattended while you use the bathroom. You mentioned that no rewards have helped to modify their behavior. Have you tried consequences?
Your children are behaving in disrespectful and destructive ways. Some level of this is normal for children, but we have to teach them not to. What happens to them, beyond lecturing?
Do you have any reason to believe that they might have learning differences or behavioral challenges that would require evaluation and diagnosis, and a treatment plan? How do they behave for others, at dance class, for example?
I've raised four boys. Some have ADHD, some are on the autism spectrum, so I do know how challenging boys can be. It's my opinion that ages ten and twelve are too old to be acting this way on a daily basis. There must be a reason. It may be as simple as needing to find other disciplinary approaches; they might just be very different children from their older sister. Or if you think there's something more to it, now might be the time to start the evaluation process.
Yes. Completely agree with what you are saying here. I also don't feel it's "normal".The thing is, when I was growing up, I was the youngest, I had two older trouble-making brothers that I didn't associate with that much, I was always around adults, and my personality was such that I just didn't do any of that sh!#. My brother stole my homework one day in the 2nd grade, and I almost had an anxiety attack because it was the first time ever, I wasn't prepared to class. In high school, my best friend stupidly passed me a note during a test re-take in French III and our teacher thought we were cheating. Neither of us were actually cheating. I wanted to die of humiliation, I could never look him in the eye again after losing his respect. And we hadn't even cheated! I felt horrible about it even years later.
My husband, on the other hand, has plenty of humorous anecdotes of his childhood such as puling a plastic knife from his arm-cast on his Kindergarten teacher and running all the way home; having his dad sign a piece of paper which he would then cut and staple to the form which said his parents had verified he'd done his homework; and a few more. I thought they were funny, since he didn't grow up to be much of a criminal in his adult life, but now I see it as potentially the source of all the evil that is happening with the boys. So, I do try to explain to myself, not all kids can be expected to be models of good behavior like I was and that's OK, etc. But the truth is, enough already, at this point, I do feel they need to be accountable for their actions one way or the other. They are certainly not hellion children, but wow, do they manage to do some destructive, stupid, or otherwise disrespectful stuff to their home and it's not really stopping.
My older daughter does actually have ADHD, it was diagnosed early when she was going to a private preschool. It was, in part, was spurred on the whole homeschooling journey. It presented challenges at times, mostly with very slow executive function. So I did have her tested for learning disabilities along with DS12 a few years ago at the school district. They found them well-dressed, charming, and smart. Nothing at all. She was later evaluated by a psychiatrist who also didn't qualify her for a learning disability but did confirm the extremely slow executive function. DS12 does have a form of Dislexia (diagnosed by me, as we know school's don't do that). His reading is still pretty decent, it seems to affect mostly his writing which is pretty atrocious. It does affect organization skills quite a bit though. Now, DS9 (the cheating one) had speech therapy as a toddler and a year of group speech therapy in pre-k which he graduated from with flying colors. He barely qualified for the program. I think they gave him very basic tests to rule out other learning disabilities. So, nothing glaring in that category.
They behave pretty well compared to most kids in group dance classes. No issues. I think it's because I've raised them with different expectations for their behavior than our community. I find it hilarious, when they are often appalled at the behavior of other kids. In their private ballroom classes, they behave extremely well as the environment is much more serious or professional so to speak.
So, yes, I do feel, I'm not dolling out the proper consequences for their behavior because other than teaching them how to be decent human beings on a general basis and then talking to them about their poor choices when that happens, I'm at a loss as to what else to do. They already don't play video games, nor have free reign of the tv, electronics are very limited as that has also been a problem in the past, to the point that they only have authorized access for school purposes only. They do violate that rule sometimes too. I can ground them, but that has little effect, as we do homeschool during the day and they often have 2-4 hours of dance the rest of the day. (Something they want to do, that is not imposed by me). So that's the day. I have told the older one he cannot text or ask me if he can do things with friends this whole week due to whatever his last transgression was. But although, it's upsetting to him, I don't feel it's enough of a deterrent. I literally don't know what privileges to take away from them nor can come up with other forms of consequences. -
5 hours ago, katilac said:
I agree that cheating is a problem, and it's going to be an ongoing problem if you leave the answers totally accessible. A locking file cabinet is a reasonable purchase for a homeschooling family, and you can frequently find them used. Or lock your bedroom door or the door to another room. If your husband works from home, how does he keep his work files and such secure? Does he have a file cabinet you could put the books in?
Like Jean said, kids are a work in progress. The behaviors you describe are frustrating but also very typical. Ruined markers and torn dust jackets are part of the gig (if the expensive markers are for school, simply quit buying them, prettier projects are not worth it). There's no way to force them to be ready for independent work just because they hit a arbitrary age. Remember, kids in school are never unsupervised for long and they are constantly redirected. And of course you want them to resist cheating on their own, but they're not there yet. You know they're not there yet, so the answers can't be readily accessible.
Buy a locking file cabinet big enough to hold teacher books and the best of your baking supplies, lol.
OK. Yeah. I honestly don't think it has seriously occurred to me to by a locking cabinet for the homeschool room! I've probably exclaimed it in exasperation, " What! Am I going to have to buy a locking file cabinet now?!! That's ridiculous!" But the rational part of my brain I don't think has realized that, yep, that's what I may need to do at this point.
I just didn't grown up like a juvenile delinquent. It's not normal to me. -
5 hours ago, parent said:
I'd leave one in the room and move another to the kitchen/dining table. Or could you move the more troublesome child near your husband's office?
Maybe consistent chart with stickers for completing tasks on time. Or even a checklist they can mark off what is done. My kids are all super competitive. I use that to keep them working. It's probably not considered best mothering technique, but it absolutely works and they aren't mean about it. They just both want to succeed. I know that won't work with some kids because they just don't care.
Yes, on occasion, I have moved one to the kitchen table and even to his dad's office if he was being overly disruptive although they are not normally or regularly disruptive. But again, without my constant hovering and nudging, I can't expect a whole lot to get done that way and honestly it does make me a little sad to banish one out of the room so I only do that as a last resort, more so because I'm fed up with them.
I do think that resorting to get them to compete with each other might be worth pursuing. And this worked a lot better one when the younger one was very enthusiastic about school and got it done very quickly as a comparison poker for the older one. I can't use sticker charts, they would find a way to cheat. And i do use lists all the time i put up on the white board for what I expect them to work on or complete if I have to leave them alone. I also bought them both very nice student planners with slots to write down each subject each day, a place to mark things off that are done. They were both super excited about them, but now, I'm constantly reminding them to utilize them. It's crazy. -
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Honestly, since I have been homeschooling for a while now, I have done things like take a break for a week and do field trips or projects, baking, etc. and we do some of those things regularly anyway. That all goes well and seems to have no impact when we “get back to work” so to speak. They get tons of exercise, they both do ballroom and other dance classes most of the weekdays. They go jump on the trampoline at lunch time, etc.
I think this curriculum is the best for him right now. I’m aware that he probably feels it’s difficult and obviously copying from the book is easier.They do seem to be complicit in each others “bad behavior”, “poor choices”, whatever you want to call it. We work in a small homeschool room so it’s hard to separate them too much and be on top of them both at the same time but I do occasionally send one out into the hall.
Last night, my daughter and I were looking for a boat for her school project in baskets I keep on top of the bookshelves. I found two ruined expensive markers, two pages of writing worksheets that someone didn’t want to do, small potato chip bag (we don’t buy those), a small book about Fossils with part of the cover cut out, and a bunch of dust bunnies. 😬 Seriously, it reads like I’m never there. But I am, with the exception of moments here and there. For example, I go to the adjacent bathroom for two minutes, at the most, I have a dentist appointment, leave them with a list of things they can do independently (my husband works from home in another room in the house). Inevitably, I come back and they accomplished next to nothing, except what they pretended they’d been working on when they heard the garage door open.
The teacher books are totally accessible, if someone is going to cheat, it is a problem. With other things in the house, I have found I can’t hide stuff or put it high enough that they won’t get it. I’ve even put things in my room before and recently bought a small safe. Sadly, it’s not big enough to put all my teacher books, baking supplies, expensive markers, etc in there every day.
I have let them know that we’re all aware the teacher books are right there and I expect them to have integrity to not take them out and that their work would have no value should they chose to cheat and that it would be obvious to me if they did.I also had their Dad address the cheating with him yesterday in addition to my lecture.
I’m thinking tying them to the chair when I leave the room may be the only solution here. 🤣😩 I need something to get them to want to do the hard things and to want to do their own tasks independently when they don’t require my guidance or presence. Basically I need an injection of integrity I can give them. I can’t even think of any rewards at this point that we haven’t tried before.
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Oh no! I realize now I was super vague about the actual cheating. What I meant was that he sort of paraphrased the outline from the teacher book. So he copied it from my book and just changed up some words, maybe used a synonym here or there or changed the order of the words in the phrases. He definitely copied it from the answer book though. He definitely knew he cheated although would not admit to it.
This is the second time he’s actually done it! Of course, I did talk to him about cheating, my disappointment, etc. I did tell him he would have to do it over again. But here he did it again in the next lesson.
Also, I realized I probably haven’t updated my signature in ages. I don’t even know what it says. Ha ha. I can’t see it on my phone. My kids are now DS almost 10, DS12, and DD15 who I homeschooled through 7th grade and is now in 9th charter school.
I’m definitely feeling burned out at times but I’ve found that me time isn’t really helping that because I’m burned out about the two boys not doing what I expect of them! I’m burned out with things like cheating, losing their papers, ruining 5,000 pencils and markers in a week. Stuffing bowls of food in their desk drawers, and so much more. They behave like Ferrell children or kids that have never been parented a day in their lives, but they’re not. It literally takes five minutes of me walking out of the room for the atrocities to begin. That’s what is killing the joy.
Anyway, aside from all the things that are ruining my own homeschooling experience right now. I really am at a loss as to what to try next specifically with cheating and maybe also with not working independently on things like writing that may take 15-30 min after I’ve done my part of the lesson.
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My 9yo 4th grader is cheating. He paraphrased the outline in a lesson from Writing & Rhetoric Book 3.
He insists he didn’t. I think because he changed up some of the words, he literally thinks the cheating is unprovable!
What to do? I’ve been homeschooling for a long time. I’m a little bit in the disgruntled homeschooling mom phase at this point when the last two don’t do any work independently if I’m not sitting in the same room with them. And now this. Makes me not want to waste my time doing school with him anymore. But, while I am, what should I do about the cheating? There really are no consequences/punishments such as loss of privileges to do. Their days are full, they don’t watch tv or play video games. They also cannot be expected to accomplish anything independently.
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There used to be a blog with video links for all the levels and chapters.
I can no longer find it. It says, blog was removed.
http://sotw-videolinks.blogspot.com/2012/02/introduction.html
But I'm pretty sure it had been archived to where you could still get to it and use it. Anyone have an updated URL for this?? -
Is ALL or Grammar for the Well Trained Mind available yet? It doesn't look like it. Any more news on when it will be?
Looking or grammar for 5th grade. I don't want to skip it this year. I tried Hake with my older DD and didn't really like it.
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Why is SOTW on 40% off? Are these editions being discontinued?
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Derek Owens?
Thank you! I hadn't heard of this before. Probably because I'm not that well-acquainted with middle-school curriculum that is out there.
This looks easier to follow. At $58/mo for online access, it's definitely more expensive and I'd still have to print out and put the student workbook together. But, I will definitely consider it.
Any other suggestions?
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After finally figuring out what I bought, Online Module A only, I e-mailed them and they did, in fact, re-instate my access. I guess access is only 1 year for Module A. I think I didn't want to commit to anymore than that last year in case it didn't work out. She really didn't do it enough to give it a fair chance so I would like her to complete it this year as a 7th grader.
I'm still considering if I should get the rest of the program. It does feel a bit pricey for what you get, materials-wise.
Is there a Pre-Algebra and Algebra curriculum that is better liked and easier to implement and keep up with?
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I have a 20% coupon on my blog in my review posts (and sidebar). http://creativemadnessmama.com/blog/tag/classical-academic-press/
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks but this is just for the grammar books and I'm getting the writing only. : (
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So I bought Videotext Algebra for my 6th grader last year to do slowly along with RSM G as recommended. RSM G was taking a lot of time and effort and she stopped doing the Algebra which she had been doing independently. Now we are re-assessing for the new school year. We still have more to finish RSM G which is fine, we're going to add some SM 6th grade Extra Practice workbooks for review and extra practice and try to pick up Algebra again.
The problem is, I don't remember what I bought and the system is just so convoluted! It's so hard to make sense of the website. I don't remember if I bought the whole Algebra program or one module. I'm pretty sure I only got the online version. I can't find anything hard copy pertaining to it. Arg. Does the online access expire? Does anyone even use this curriculum anymore or is it just old and outdated (not the content; just the way it's made available to be used)? Just can't get my mind around it right now.
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Does WOL have diagramming?
I'm a little puzzled by the teachers manual. For example, I'm moving happily through the first chapter and the information I need is on the page that matches the workbook... Then I get to the section Analyze This and I have to flip to the end of the chapter to figure out what I'm supposed to be doing. When I get back to that section, I find tons of notes for all the sections. I do not want to be flipping back and forth at every page. It seems a strange(and somewhat inconvenient) arrangement. Has anyone else found it cumbersome?
Their Writing & Rhetoric TG is like that too. I put tiny sticky tabs on the page we're on for the lesson and on the teacher notes in the back. I guess, it's to keep the sequence of the rest of the pages in the lesson synched up with the student workbook.
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Yeah. That's not fabulous considering I only need R&R Book 7 and they don't have Book 8 available yet.
I'm used to having a 20% of coupon but not seeing anything in my mail this year. : ( -
Which is better FLL or CAP's new Well Ordered Language for grammar?
I did FLL with one and about to go onto FLL 3 with my second and FLL1 with my third child. I've made the switch from WWE to CAP R&R already and wondering if I might like their grammar program better. Although, very repetitive, FLL, seems to have done a really good job on grammar with my first child. Thoughts? -
Any one know of a promo code for 2016?
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Wondering if there is another forum or place specific to CAP W&R to post student writing assignments for feedback?
DD11 is on Book 6 Commonplace, L6 and I have gone over her paragraphs with feedback and comments to help her write a final draft and I feel she's just not making enough progress to keep going on to the next lesson with the same unresolved issues in her writing. I admit, it seems difficult at this age for kids that may not be strong in communication/writing skills. I need to get a better idea of what to expect her to be able to produce at this point. Any ideas?
Writing & Rhetoric Book 5 Lesson 10 pages missing
in K-8 Curriculum Board
Posted
I'm wondering if there might be anyone that can help me out with missing pages. Our student pages are cut from the spine so we can copy them. Somehow, my 5th grader took Lesson 10 out to copy but "lost" the pages, specifically pages 189-194. I'm wondering if anyone has this on digital that would be willing to send me those or photocopy them and e-mail or something?