Dianne-TX
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Posts posted by Dianne-TX
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Dianne,
We have a southern Baptist background (teen,college,early marriage) then our SBC mission called a calvinist pastor! What a wake up call (I think most people would say that SBC churches are not at all calvinist although the very earliest baptist churches were)!! We eventually went to a PCA church and spent most of the past 10 years there until we moved.
For general purposes - I would probably say that reformed churches are calvinistic but maybe not all calvinistic churches are reformed. Not all churches hold to covenant theology as reformed churches do like the PCA. In addition not all reformed churches practice infant baptism.
When we moved we decided that we wanted to find a church that was reformed but also credo-baptist (as opposed to paedo-baptist). We found the three churches in our area that fit this description for us on the 9marks website. Not all the churches listed would classify themselves as reformed or calvinistic though. And all three churches had differing views as to disspensationalism, the apostolic gifts of the spirits, and eschatology. But each church was filled with homeschooling families, which was somewhat surprising to us. But welcome just the same! (I don't believe that it is because of any teaching theses churches have about education).
Because of the various positions they had on some of these subjects, it did play apart in the deciding which church to attend. One church, basically said that you had to agree with these teachings in order to serve in leadership. It was obvious that there viewpoints would be taught as truth and we had already begun teaching our children otherwise. (For example - we don't believe that scripture supports a rapture and the whole "Left Behind" mentality - so we wouldn't want to bring up our children in a church that does.)
At any rate - we did find that looking for a reformed credo-baptist church was a bit more complicated than just finding a church that was reformed and had believer's baptism only!
My dh met personally with each of the pastors and grilled them!! We ended up at a church where I feel the pastor is passionate about preaching the word of God. I think maybe that is what I've learned over the past few years - what does the Pastor believe is his major responsibility. Preachiing the word of God has to be the answer for us. This is how God moves in people from the teaching of the word and the pastor's passion should be reflected in his sermons, in the amount of time spent in personal study and preparation, and the commitment to discipling the members of the church in the Word. (Style of worship music, midweek activities, friendliness of church, etc - are all second to this requirement for us).
I would recommend the www.9marks.org as a starting point for finding some churches. Oh - wait - all three churches we visited were also at www.founders.org, which is a site for baptist churches returning to their reformed roots.
I mentioned that we were at a PCA church for 10 years and it was great - we loved it, the only thing was that we were not paedo-baptists. Keep in mind that PCA churches are all very varied! We had a great preacher for the last 5 years we were there and he spoiled us - there were several PCA churches we'd visit on vacation and such and they were like milk and cookies compared to the meat and potatos we were getting at our church! Also - not all PCA churches are filled with homeschoolers - I haven't been to any that were. But - if we did not find a credo-baptist reformed church - we probably woud have ended up back in the PCA. So the baptism thing is not a deal-breaker for us, although it does prevent dh from serving as an elder in the PCA.
By now, I have forgotten what you have asked in your original post!! I hope some of this has been helpful. And I am sorry that I posted this in the wrong place - this should be under Dianne's original post.
Thank you, thank you, thank you! You don't know how reading this helped me! I appreciate your response greatly! Thanks for the links...
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May I interject that it was not my personal intention to use the term in a confrontational way nor to make anyone look evil. :) Dispies believe that there remains a special plan for Israel yet to be fulfilled in the end times, while Covenant/Reformed views on end times see the Church in that place. As a Calvinist, I believe that God's elect are God's elect, Jew or Gentile.
Hi, Jill... I believe as you do regarding this particular subject. Can you recommend any resources to help me muddle through all this? Thanks. Also, did you get my message? Just checking to make sure I did it right. :) Thanks...
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About the difference in the view of Israel - I am really a beginner in sorting this out, but I think that dispensationalists (usually not Reformed) hold that the believing remnant of Israel will be saved through Christ during the end times; the Reformed view of eschatology is "replacement" theology, which says that the Church has replaced Israel and Israel no longer holds a special place in how the end times will play out.
This has been true of the many Bible churches we have attended and the pastor/teacher's have all been dispensationalists and not Reformed. I believe amillienialist (forgive me for misspelling, if I did) believe that the church has replaced Israel, too. We had one family that believed this in a Bible church we attended and there was definite teaching that was opposite of that belief. Which leads me to another question, how do you determine what beliefs you "give" on and what beliefs are deal breakers? In other words, what the "majors" and what are the "minors". I understand some "majors" are going to obvious like the diety of Christ, our sin nature, etc. But, what about sprinkling vs. immersion? Is that a "minor" since it's not a necessity to be baptized. Or is it a "major" because the Bible clearing defines baptism as immersion and you can't contradict the Bible. I could go on, but I'll stop there. :) Thanks...
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CAMom gave a great, concise answer. Calvinism deals with soteriology - the "how" of salvation. Reformed Theology encompasses a Calvinist soteriology as well as other distinctives like covenant family/paedobaptism, and typically a non-dispensational view of eschatology (often amillenial).
This might make it easier: all Reformed are Calvinist, but not all Calvinists are Reformed.
In other words, there are Calvinists who are dispensational in eschatology and credobaptist.
And a slight correction to one of the early responses: the 5 Solas are not the same as the 5 points of Calvinism. The 5 Solas divide historic Protestantism from Catholicism, so all Protestants should be 5-point, um, Sola-ists - but not all Protestants are 5 or even 3 or 4-point Calvinists.
Thank you, NR, as always your responses are helpful.
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PCA pastors have their kids in public school????? I'm disappointed! Our PCA pastor talked about unequally yoked and how it's not just referring to marriage. We shouldn't put ourselves in situations where we are intimately integrated with those who don't believe as we do. (Don't shoot me, I have friends who aren't Christians, but my children wouldn't be trained by them.)
Carrie:-)
I never thought of "unequally yoked" in this way. I always thought of marriage and close, personal relationships such as close friends and such, but not with regards to "teachers". But, it makes sense. Like Luke says, (poorly paraphrased), "...you will be like your teacher once you have been fully trained..." Where do they spend most of their time as children? At school. Interesting...
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Usually Reformed and Calvinism are used interchangeably. There are some important distinctions to Calvinism/Reformed theology that should be considered, however. The main one is the way free will is defined. Here is the spectrum:
Determinist (everything has been determined prior to including your desires and/or decisions) --Some Reformed
Compatiblist (try to hold to some form of freedom, but a truncated view--God places the desire in you so that you are compelled to "choose")--Some Reformed
Libertarian Free Will (one has genuine free will while God's sovereignty is not thwarted)
Molinism (Middle Knowlege--philosophical view that has had a resurgence that brings together both areas of Scripture of God's sovereignty and genuine free will/responisblity. Many Liberatrian Free Will also hold to Middle Knowlege.)
Arminianism (holds to a robust view of freedom at the expense--some say--to God's sovereignty)--Catholicism
It sounds a little picky to look at these and wrestle with them, however, when one holds to a view the practical effects are genuine. For instance, the issue of prayer, missions, purpose, sanctification...which get played out in sermons and Bible Studies within a church body. This can be difficult at times.
My husband and I hold to Libertarian Free Will/Molinists (but not dogmatically) and finally found a wonderful church in our area, after searching for several years, that was not anti-intellectual and took the Scriptures seriously. They happen to be Reformed. We are fine with this as long as there is charity within the body. My husband had lunch with the pastor before we decided on the church to ask him about charity. The pastor adimently said yes, of course charity. Our kids get a heavy dose of Reformed theology, but we are trying to respectfully/graciously give them the other side here at home so they can grapple with the issues at hand for themselves.
A great book to read on the subject is: Why I am Not a Calvinist:
Also Why I am Not an Arminian:
I know the first is very fair on all sides and does some scholarly work with passages of Scripture. The 2nd is within the same series, looks good, but I haven't read it yet.
Blessings to you as you grapple with this....
Wow! Thank you. I hadn't heard some of this. You've given me some things to look up. I appreciate all the information you shared.
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Typically, when someone says "Calvinist" they mean with regards to salvation. In other words--TULIP.
When we say "Reformed" it usually encompasses a "Calvinistic" view of soteriology as well as a holding to Covenant Theology. Covenant Theology basically adheres to the idea that there is one covenant theme running throughout Scripture--the covenant of redemption consumated in Christ.
Those who are "Reformed" will typically hold to infant baptism (although it does not have the same meaning as Catholic or Lutheran baptism) and will hold to an amillenial or post-millenial view of the end times.
HTH,
Thank you for the short overview. That helped to have a summary.
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I'm really seeing God deepen my faith and understanding during this time. I have drawn closer to Him during this time and I am thankful in many ways for that. It's not easy, though. I'm also finding that the present church culture is sad, period. We aren't alone, believe me. I know many, many people looking for the same thing.
we are dealing with very similar issues. We are finding it difficult to find a good combination of deep Biblical truth, and reverance in worship, and an abundance of grace exhibited through the congregation. We have been wondering what part of this we have to compromise to finally find a church home. I will watch the replies with interest... -
Thank you for responding. What are the differences, if you don't mind explaining? I, too, am Calvinist, but I'm trying to understand the reformed point of view in comparison to that. I know end times opinions are varied and I don't consider that a point of contention, but I am interested in what most reformed people believe. Or, are they as varied as non-reformed? :) I appreciate your response.
My Reformed friends generally look at the end times differently than I would (eschatology), and they practice infant baptism, whereas I hold to believer baptism. Not everyone holds to all five of the "solas" of the Reformation, so you'll have three-point, four-point, or even four-and-a-half point Calvinists. :) -
Here's a little background before I delve into my question. My dh and I were saved as youngsters. I when I was a little girl and my dh when he was a teenager. We have been members of Bible churches for our adult life and I would say that that is the church we have really been grounded in and it has discipled us the most. We respect John MacArthur highly and would attend his church if we lived in California. :) We have been in between churches for almost 2 years. Our present church is another Bible church in our area, but we are finding the same disappointing issue to be true of this church as other Bible churches we have attended. Knowledge without a lot of heart. And, all the Bible churches we've attended have had pastor/teachers from DTS (Dallas Theo. Seminary). We have really liked the teaching of those graduates, but have found, of the churches we have attended, that they lack warmth. (we've attended several, 2 we were members) Our present church is also very limited on children and we want to attend somewhere where at least more children exist. We aren't looking for more programs for our children because we probably wouldn't participate in those anyway. I say all that because a friend of mine who has a Bible/Baptist background has started attending a PCA church. She loves it and her parents love it too. They also have the same background and they say it reminds them of their churches when they were very young. So, we are intrigued. I've done research and readings online and read what John MacArthur has to say regarding infant baptism and the Bible and much more. I do know this PCA church does not believe that the infant baptism saves the baby, it's just a convenant. I'm not completely kosher with that biblically, though, but I don't know if it's a point of division. I also have trouble with sprinkling vs. immersion. But, again, I don't know if it's worth dividing over. I've also read the PCA website. I'm still searching and all my searching just brings up more questions and confusion. Has anyone been in my shoes? Has anyone gone into the Reformed churches from a Bible/Baptist background? Any help and guidance is appreciated. Sorry this turned out long. Trust me, it could have been so much longer! :) To make it easier, one main question I have is what is the difference between Calvinism and Reformed Theology? I thought they were the same. Thanks!
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He had a bm earlier today, but then the mild ache came back later. The front part of his stomach started hurting too. He showed us that it hurt around his lower right side and more near his back. I started thinking kidney something. But, I'm not sure what that means either and what symptoms to look for. He hasn't presented any other symptoms and he went to sleep fine tonight and has remained asleep too. I'll see how he wakes up in the a.m. We've pushed on his stomach and rubbed it for him for comfort, but he doesn't react like it's tender at all. Who knows. He might be coming down with something else too?
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those "good 'ol days" doctors, huh? :)
It could be something as simple as gas. Watch for worsening symptoms. My ex husband had appendicitis and he told me once (when our son was having pain) to take my palm and hit ds9's right heel. If he jumped out of the bed, it was likely his appendix. If he didn't, chances were good that it was nothing major. I am not sure how "medical" that advice is, but it was apparently something the doc did to him when he came in with appendicitis. -
what should I be watching for if this continues? I've only heard of right side associated with appendicitis. Is there anything minor that this could be? He's acting normal, eating normal, playing, and just fine otherwise. I just want to be prepared. I guess if he is still complaining about it tomorrow we need to head to the dr., that is if nothing happens before then. I'm just wanting to find out what my other possibilities could be.
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we do a lot of what you said. Every time we are in a moment with him we ask him what he could have done differently and tell him how that makes others feel. I always end it on a positive note by saying, "Now, go and do better because I know you can." I just feel like I'm always in correction mode and wonder if he really "gets" it. We share with him how his sister feels when she hears us getting onto him constantly and how his actions affect others too. We try to really get across that he is responsible for his behavior and speech and noone else can do it for him. I just don't react in a good way initially and I know that has to crush him time after time. He might be more bothered that he messed up instead of really thinking about what he did to mess up. I've been praying that the Lord let's me see my son as the child he is instead of the adult he may or may not turn out to be. I will be trying to let a lot go and just work on one or two things at a time that might be a struggle for him. I also try to personalize it, too, and think about how many flaws and struggles I have and how I'm glad I don't have someone breathing down my neck every day. I would break if I had a mom that responded me at times and that's just not a good thought. Thank you so much for the response. And, yes, one day I'll be looking back and I don't want to have regrets. Each day is one day closer to him growing up and I don't get a second chance at this job. But, thankfully, at the present time, every day is new.
Would it be helpful to guide him in such a way that correcting the behavior is his idea? It's difficult to know without understanding more about the behaviors you have in mind. I'm thinking of something along the lines of involving him in the problem-solving.I think if it has to be obvious for him to get it, then be obvious. Figure out what you want him to do in addition to what you want him to stop doing, so that you're focusing on teaching the desired behavior. (Um, not that I ever struggle with this. Heh heh. What do I want my ds to do? I want him to S-T-O-P doing that! Lol...Sort of.)
Point out the consequences of his behaviors: When you do this behavior, the result is this/I see others reacting in this way. What can we do together to help solve this problem? My 8 y.o. ds usually says "I dunno" (lol) but with some coaching and guidance, he's starting to be able to problem-solve a little on his own.
If my son is really stumped, I offer some behavior choices (In this situation, you could try A or B. Both are appropriate actions. Which sounds most comfortable?) or some reasonable consequences (If you choose to do this behavior the consequence will be C because that behavior is not appropriate. I think it's a reasonable consequence, what do you think?) Sometimes we even role-play or practice.
I also wonder if re-framing his struggles as "challenges" instead of "personality weaknesses" might be helpful. I know that sounds a little silly, but once in a while I find that re-naming something in a different way--in this instance as something that can be re-taught rather than something inherent--can really help to approach things differently.
Good luck. Remember, he's 8 and he has parents who guide and love and pray for him. One day you'll think to yourself, "I remember when he used to..." :grouphug:
Cat
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for sharing and for the resource info.
I bought a lot of books to try to figure out my first child when he was little...Surviving Your Two Year Old, The Difficult Child, The Spirited Child, etc. He was eventually diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome and finally it all made sense (even the difficult in-laws, but don't quote me on that :lol: )A person with Asperger Syndrome can be quite bright in some areas but still socially clueless. For example, he/she won't necessarily pick up on other people's facial expressions, tone of voice, etc. and may truly have no idea how his/her behavior is affecting others.
There are social skills training techniques/materials (try googling "Social Stories" or Carol Gray) that might be helpful even if your ds doesn't have AS.
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we spend many evenings going over what we need to do differently, but then fail the next time. He does react to positive reinforcement better, but I guess I just get lost in the negative and lose my way. Our situation, too, is one that many of the issues could be overlooked, but we let it all get to us. I've thought often that we need to just pick one or two habits to work on and let the rest go, unless absolutely necessary. I appreciate your post very much... thank you.
We've had similar issues with one of my 9 yo sons. I'm not sure what behavior you are referring to though. For us, we just seemed to correct and direct when we saw this son doing something we didn't think was right. We both realized that we were harming him more by harping him all the time. Most of the things we corrected or mentioned to him were things that we could just let slide. Some of it is maturity and we just have to be patient. Also, the manner in which we speak to him needs to be affirming rather than negative all the time, which is what we had been doing. I think too that you may want to pick just one or two areas that you want to help him with at a time. Now if you're talking about correcting him for wrong school work then that's different. Recently, I was so tired of my dh correcting this ds's table manners at every meal for every infraction. So now my dh is rewarding him with a certain amount of money for each meal time he eats with good manners. And dh is giving him lots of praise. Overnight this ds's habits are changing. We give gentle reminders for now but it is really working. After a while, once it has become a habit (eating properly) then we will add up what money he's earned and he'll go buy some Lego thing or something. Positive reinforcement is what works for this ds not nagging. This method also worked for getting him to stop sucking his thumb. HTHs! -
How do you parent a child who really doesn't realize their undesireable behavior? My ds8 has always been a reactive personality, easily frustrated, etc. It seems we are always directing him. I feel like sometimes it's me acting, speaking and guiding him more than he does himself. How do you help this type of child? I feel like we're crushing his spirit even though we feel like much of our discipline and guidance is necessary? How do you get through to a child who doesn't really seem like he understands your reasoning or explanation? I hope I'm making sense. Am I up against maturity or a difficult personality that is just difficult? He's a perfectionist type personality and doesn't like correction unless it's his idea. :) He's not argumentative or sassy or rebellious and I don't want to create that by my failure as a parent. I don't think he really "gets" what he does or how he "is". I feel like I'm failing him as his mother because I don't know how to effectively parent and guide him sometimes. I pray for him daily and we are constantly training character and repeating Bible verses relating to our character, etc. I obviously want him to not turn into a difficult adult. I have family members who are and I see similarities. I even have a close family member who professes to be a Christian, has great knowledge, but that I still see struggle with his personality weaknesses. (he doesn't see those weaknesses, unfortunately) I don't want my ds to be like that. I'm trying not to let that affect me, but I can't help but think what his future could look like and I feel responsible for him and how he will turn out. He has a sweet heart and is really a good kid who isn't defiant and doesn't desire to be a difficult person. He desires to do what's right, but doesn't seem to really connect his undesireable attitude at times. It has to be very obvious for him to get it. Most of the time, though, I feel like I'm crushing him instead of being effective. I appreciate any insight and advice. Sorry this turned out to be long. TIA...
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My dc are 8 and 5 (almost 6). I want them to see the importance of their alone time with the Lord. Are they too young and should I let them do it when they have the desire as their faith grows? I don't want to manufacture anything, but I also know I need to shepherd them too. How can I start implementing this at their ages? We have family Bible time every day, but I'm wondering when it's best to start them in their own quiet time. I would appreciate ideas on how to implement it too. Thanks!
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it is annoying. I've let her do it and then I tell her "enough". I'm glad to know I've not done something to mess with her head. The child's never known anyone except Mommy and I've spent every minute with her and cared for her, etc., so I don't think she's insecure. Thanks for the reassurance.
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I'm not overreacting, but I'm just wondering where this is coming from? She plays with baby dolls, but she is wanting to be one or a 3 year old or someone younger. Should I stop this or just wait it out? Is there something else I should do?
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Oh, no, I'm okay! Really. :) My dh actually already got some semi-gloss paint to paint over what he already did just to be safe. He would rather have what is best for a bathroom anyway. Thanks for all the responses. It does look like it's a mixed opinion and no definite answer. And, yes, I agree that the flat paint shows more spots where you wash it and doesn't wear as nicely. We used flat paint in our living room and you can see those flawed areas where it was washed or rubbed against. But, it's liveable and I'm not complaining. We wouldn't be painting right now anyway, but due to the hurricane we had to make repairs. Fun! Thanks again for the responses.
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We painted our bathroom and used some paint we already had. We didn't think until later if it was the kind to use in a bathroom or not. Well, it's a "flat" paint and if I remember correctly it wasn't recommended for use in a bathroom or kitchen. But, "recommended" and "absolutely not" are two different things. We originally used this paint for our living room so I don't have any background on it's use in a moisture filled room like a bathroom. From my search online, I've seen more responses to not use flat in a bathroom because of the moisture. However, I've seen some responses that say it's no big deal. My google search only turned up "Yahoo answers" which is like a message board and the responders aren't necessarily home improvement experts. So, those answers don't satisfy me. Can anyone confirm if using a flat paint in a bathroom isn't okay. My dh is out now going to the home improvement store to get another kind of paint just in case, but if it's no big deal I can stop him. Thanks!
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Okay, I've been on this weight loss roller coaster since my dd was born. She will be 6 in Feb. I'm not grossly overweight, but need to lose at least 30 pounds, 40 would be even better. But, every time I get on track and begin to better my lifestyle, it lasts for awhile, but then after I start losing weight something psychological happens. I almost get scared to lose weight. Does that make sense? I somehow sabotage myself. Can anyone relate or am I just crazy by myself? (boy, I hope not!)
CC: Confused... difference between Calvinist and Reformed?
in General Education Discussion Board
Posted
Thank you! Yes, we sound a lot alike in our journey. You are on the other side, though. :) I appreciate you taking the time to post and be so open. It really helped me to read it and see our similarities. I pray we can be settled somewhere, permanently, a year from now too. Thank you again.